dberrie2000 Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Luke 24:39----King James Version (KJV)39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. My question is--does God have a resurrected body of flesh and bones? I posted this question because of some of the criticisms I have heard from non-LDS. Comments? Link to comment
WysteriaBlue Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Dear dberrie.... As a newbie myself and from a generalized other christian like background....this can be a bit of a stumper for some. Unless you study a great deal the difference in the characteristics and relationship of the Godhood of the LDS faith and the trinity ideas held by many other christian faiths...you can see why some have a difficult time with the idea that God et al have human body parts and form. Loving priesthood holders can explain it much better..but there is a deep theological reasoning for this and its implications in terms of how LDS look at life, salvation, their relationships now and in the past and in the future with God all come in to play. If you are truly LDS....I would talk to your priesthood leaders for further explanations and revelations as to the importance of and nature of the Godhood, and be patient/compassionate with your friends for what they have learned and grown up with is pretty different... If you are not LDS....I recommend finding a true priesthood holder that has lots of compassion and patience to help you to understand the significance and importance and nature of the Godhood as it is found in the LDS theology. I am NOT LDS and this was indeed a hard concept for me to begin to understand and accept....bringing the holy, celestial, aloof and spirit-like God of my past to a more personal and loving relationship and connection and all powerful being found here is a leap of faith for many and a real transformation of beliefs. THIS is JUST my opinion and NOT the words of the LDS church....I'm sure there are many other much wiser people here that can verbalize and explain it much better than I can.... wb 1 Link to comment
JLHPROF Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Luke 24:39----King James Version (KJV)39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. My question is--does God have a resurrected body of flesh and bones? I posted this question because of some of the criticisms I have heard from non-LDS. Comments? Yes. God does. And as this verse shows, so did Christ after he raised from the dead. Just as his father did before him. Link to comment
Tacenda Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Yes. God does. And as this verse shows, so did Christ after he raised from the dead. Just as his father did before him.I want to say that He was flesh and blood while on the earth only, he has the power! And spirit in heaven, because if the spirit is encumbered in heaven with flesh and blood it dies off, where the spirit goes on forever. It just makes more sense to me, and is in the scriptures where the scripture writers apparently thought so too. JS or other leaders possibly put God in flesh and bone, so that it would be possible to have spirit children. In the Bible, it never mentions I believe, the pre existence. It has man being created from the dust of the earth. Not from a HF and Mother. Now if our church does truly believe this why is a Mother in Heaven hidden so much? She wasn't "protected" in the early church. Maybe some of us could get on board more fully if her existence is more transparent. And I don't believe it's to protect her, she can handle it if She exists. Why is the church trying to appear like the other churches, it should stand up and be counted in what it believes. Now I'm going off in a tangent, I'll shut up. Link to comment
dberrie2000 Posted October 22, 2014 Author Share Posted October 22, 2014 (edited) Dear dberrie.... As a newbie myself and from a generalized other christian like background....this can be a bit of a stumper for some. Unless you study a great deal the difference in the characteristics and relationship of the Godhood of the LDS faith and the trinity ideas held by many other christian faiths...you can see why some have a difficult time with the idea that God et al have human body parts and form. Loving priesthood holders can explain it much better..but there is a deep theological reasoning for this and its implications in terms of how LDS look at life, salvation, their relationships now and in the past and in the future with God all come in to play. If you are truly LDS....I would talk to your priesthood leaders for further explanations and revelations as to the importance of and nature of the Godhood, and be patient/compassionate with your friends for what they have learned and grown up with is pretty different... If you are not LDS....I recommend finding a true priesthood holder that has lots of compassion and patience to help you to understand the significance and importance and nature of the Godhood as it is found in the LDS theology. I am NOT LDS and this was indeed a hard concept for me to begin to understand and accept....bringing the holy, celestial, aloof and spirit-like God of my past to a more personal and loving relationship and connection and all powerful being found here is a leap of faith for many and a real transformation of beliefs. THIS is JUST my opinion and NOT the words of the LDS church....I'm sure there are many other much wiser people here that can verbalize and explain it much better than I can.... wb Thanks for your response, Wysteria. I am LDS. Most LDS do not need to talk to their priesthood leaders on this subject--they usually accept the revelation that God has a body of flesh and bones--there are no substantial problems with that theology, that I am aware of, within the LDS church. My question was to those who claim God the Father does not have a body of flesh and bones--but the Son does. The question of whether God has a body of flesh and bones becomes problematic--at best, for those who hold to the Trinitarian theology. One can separate the persons--but not the God--in the Trinitarian theology, especially considering the "Homoousios" wording. That presents no problem in the LDS theology. Edited October 22, 2014 by dberrie2000 Link to comment
dberrie2000 Posted October 22, 2014 Author Share Posted October 22, 2014 I want to say that He was flesh and blood while on the earth only, he has the power! And spirit in heaven, because if the spirit is encumbered in heaven with flesh and blood it dies off, where the spirit goes on forever. It just makes more sense to me, and is in the scriptures where the scripture writers apparently thought so too. Where do we find the resurrected body dying off in the Biblical scriptures? Link to comment
dberrie2000 Posted October 22, 2014 Author Share Posted October 22, 2014 JS or other leaders possibly put God in flesh and bone, so that it would be possible to have spirit children. In the Bible, it never mentions I believe, the pre existence. You do believe it was Christ in the OT--which becomes a child born to an earthly mother in the NT? Link to comment
CA Steve Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Thanks for your response, Wysteria. I am LDS. Most LDS do not need to talk to their priesthood leaders on this subject--they usually accept the revelation that God has a body of flesh and bones--there are no substantial problems with that theology, that I am aware of, within the LDS church. My question was to those who claim God the Father does not have a body of flesh and bones--but the Son does. The question of whether God has a body of flesh and bones becomes problematic--at best, for those who hold to the Trinitarian theology. One can separate the persons--but not the God--in the Trinitarian theology, especially considering the "Homoousios" wording. That presents no problem in the LDS theology.I think it does present a problem for LDS theology. If God the father has a resurrected body where did it come from? Who created it? Was there a time when God the father was not Omni-everything? If God the father is not THE creator, who is and why are we not worshiping Him? Is God the Father perfect or still progressing? If we postulate an endless regression of Gods spawning Gods are we not also subject to the same criticism leveled at those who deny A creator who is The original force behind everything? Link to comment
thesometimesaint Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 I want to say that He was flesh and blood while on the earth only, he has the power! And spirit in heaven, because if the spirit is encumbered in heaven with flesh and blood it dies off, where the spirit goes on forever. It just makes more sense to me, and is in the scriptures where the scripture writers apparently thought so too. JS or other leaders possibly put God in flesh and bone, so that it would be possible to have spirit children. In the Bible, it never mentions I believe, the pre existence. It has man being created from the dust of the earth. Not from a HF and Mother. Now if our church does truly believe this why is a Mother in Heaven hidden so much? She wasn't "protected" in the early church. Maybe some of us could get on board more fully if her existence is more transparent. And I don't believe it's to protect her, she can handle it if She exists. Why is the church trying to appear like the other churches, it should stand up and be counted in what it believes. Now I'm going off in a tangent, I'll shut up. Yes God the Father has a body of flesh and bone. Yes, the Bible mentions the Pre-Existence., but rather obliquely. We don't know the process by which spirit children are produced. But it is LDS Theology that we have a Heavenly Mother as well as a Heavenly Father. Link to comment
thesometimesaint Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 I think it does present a problem for LDS theology. If God the father has a resurrected body where did it come from? Who created it? Was there a time when God the father was not Omni-everything? If God the father is not THE creator, who is and why are we not worshiping Him? Is God the Father perfect or still progressing? If we postulate an endless regression of Gods spawning Gods are we not also subject to the same criticism leveled at those who deny A creator who is The original force behind everything? No problem for me. We have no Revelation as to when or where God the Father got his Resurrected body. In LDS Theology there is no "First Cause". Link to comment
halconero Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 I want to say that He was flesh and blood while on the earth only, he has the power! And spirit in heaven, because if the spirit is encumbered in heaven with flesh and blood it dies off, where the spirit goes on forever. It just makes more sense to me, and is in the scriptures where the scripture writers apparently thought so too.I'm sorry, this is mistaken. Many of the epistles, and the Gospels themselves address and combat the doctrine of docetism: the doctrine that Christ's resurrection wasn't bodily and that he simply ascended in spirit.The reality and the permanence of the Resurrection isn't just a core doctrine of Latter-day Saint Christianity, but orthodox Christianity dating back to the early Christian groups. Ideas contrary to the idea were combatted vigorously.In fact, in the epistles of John, the writer names the teacher of such a doctrine an "anti-Christ." 2 Link to comment
dberrie2000 Posted October 22, 2014 Author Share Posted October 22, 2014 Yes. God does. And as this verse shows, so did Christ after he raised from the dead. Just as his father did before him. Hi Prof. I don't believe there is any specific information on God the Father's resurrected body--as the scriptures demonstrate and testify to in Christ's resurrected body. My conclusion is--if God the Son is shown with a resurrected body of flesh and bones--then it really should not be any surprise--or violation of God's laws--if we find that same principle manifested in Christ's God and Father. The seal is broken in Christ, the can is opened, the cup drank. God, and a body of flesh and bones--- is manifested. 1 Link to comment
JAHS Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 You pretty much have to go to LDS scripture to get a definite answer about this: "The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us." (D&C 130: 22) There are a few Bible scriptures that hint at it: Speaking of Jesus Paul said: "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:" (Phil 2:6) Jesus said that he did nothing that he had not seen the Father do. (John 5:19)If Jesus is God, yet obtained a body and lived as a mortal, then why could not His Father have done the same thereby also having a body, making this statement by Jesus a true one in every sense? And if Jesus obtained a body and is equal with God could this not mean that God the Father has a body also? 1 Link to comment
Tacenda Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 (edited) Where do we find the resurrected body dying off in the Biblical scriptures?I don't think I said that, if I did I'm sorry, what I said is we don't have a body of flesh and blood. At least that's what I glean from the scripture I c/p below. 1 Cor. 15:50-58 50 I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”[h]55 “Where, O death, is your victory? Where, O death, is your sting?”[i]56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.58 Therefore, my dear brothers and sisters, stand firm. Let nothing move you. Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord, because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain. Edited October 22, 2014 by Tacenda Link to comment
dberrie2000 Posted October 22, 2014 Author Share Posted October 22, 2014 dberrie2000, on 22 Oct 2014 - 11:30 AM, said: Thanks for your response, Wysteria. I am LDS. Most LDS do not need to talk to their priesthood leaders on this subject--they usually accept the revelation that God has a body of flesh and bones--there are no substantial problems with that theology, that I am aware of, within the LDS church. My question was to those who claim God the Father does not have a body of flesh and bones--but the Son does. The question of whether God has a body of flesh and bones becomes problematic--at best, for those who hold to the Trinitarian theology. One can separate the persons--but not the God--in the Trinitarian theology, especially considering the "Homoousios" wording. That presents no problem in the LDS theology. I think it does present a problem for LDS theology. If God the father has a resurrected body where did it come from? Who created it? Was there a time when God the father was not Omni-everything? If God the father is not THE creator, who is and why are we not worshiping Him? Is God the Father perfect or still progressing? If we postulate an endless regression of Gods spawning Gods are we not also subject to the same criticism leveled at those who deny A creator who is The original force behind everything? I don't understand why any of your material would somehow either establish nor negate the fact the LDS don't have any problem with accepting God the Father having a body of flesh and bones. If you are going to ask the question of where did God the Father's body come from--then we could ask the same question of Christ. But that does not in any way negate the fact that Christ did indeed have a resurrected body of flesh and bones. Nor would it negate the possibility of God the Father having a body of flesh and bones. If one is going use unanswered questions to posture the validity of beliefs--then asking where did God the Father come from, or His Spirit-- and being unable to answer that--would it negate the reality of God the Father? That approach has nothing to do with the fact the LDS have no theological problems with believing God the Father has a body of flesh and bones. Link to comment
dberrie2000 Posted October 22, 2014 Author Share Posted October 22, 2014 I don't think I said that, if I did I'm sorry, what I said is we don't have a body of flesh and blood. At least that's what I glean from the scripture I c/p below. 1 Cor. 15:50-58 50 I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”[h]55 “Where, O death, is your victory? Where, O death, is your sting?”[i]56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.58 Therefore, my dear brothers and sisters, stand firm. Let nothing move you. Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord, because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain. OK--sorry--I thought you were referencing the resurrected body. Link to comment
dberrie2000 Posted October 22, 2014 Author Share Posted October 22, 2014 You pretty much have to go to LDS scripture to get a definite answer about this: "The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us." (D&C 130: 22) There are a few Bible scriptures that hint at it: Speaking of Jesus Paul said: "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:" (Phil 2:6) Jesus said that he did nothing that he had not seen the Father do. (John 5:19)If Jesus is God, yet obtained a body and lived as a mortal, then why could not His Father have done the same thereby also having a body, making this statement by Jesus a true one in every sense? And if Jesus obtained a body and is equal with God could this not mean that God the Father has a body also? Or, one that I feel has some significance: John 14:8-9---King James Version (KJV)8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father? Link to comment
WysteriaBlue Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 If you are so sure, why OP that "I posted this question because of some of the criticisms I have heard from non-LDS."Their "criticisms or questions" would have no relevance to you in your acceptance of what you were taught, nor would their Homoousian beliefs bother you in the least. I tried to answer you honestly as to why a change in such a substantial and significant difference in the Godhood might exist and to show compassion to those that are not as wise as you apparently are. If you are not open to discussion or differing points of view than why ASK or posit that that you "have heard" from non LDS "criticisms" Obviously they mean nothing and have no veracity and there is no need for you to understand "their" beliefs... wb. Link to comment
Spammer Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 (edited) We trinitarians have no theological problems with the idea of the Father having a body of flesh and bones. We just don't believe he has one. Our salvation required that God become one of us to heal our wounded human nature. To accomplish this, God became man only in the person of the Son, the one through whom all things were created and in whom all things have their being. Only the Son entered time and space and became incarnate, veiled in matter. The Father did not incarnate and so does not have a body. This in no way divided the unity of the one divine nature homoosious). While on earth, the divine person of the Son shared the one undivided divine nature with the persons of the Father and the Holy Spirit. He also shared our human nature with us. Edited October 22, 2014 by Spammer Link to comment
CA Steve Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 dberrie2000, on 22 Oct 2014 - 11:30 AM, said: I don't understand why any of your material would somehow either establish nor negate the fact the LDS don't have any problem with accepting God the Father having a body of flesh and bones. If you are going to ask the question of where did God the Father's body come from--then we could ask the same question of Christ. But that does not in any way negate the fact that Christ did indeed have a resurrected body of flesh and bones. Nor would it negate the possibility of God the Father having a body of flesh and bones. If one is going use unanswered questions to posture the validity of beliefs--then asking where did God the Father come from, or His Spirit-- and being unable to answer that--would it negate the reality of God the Father? That approach has nothing to do with the fact the LDS have no theological problems with believing God the Father has a body of flesh and bones. Do you believe in multiple Gods, as in more than the trinity? If not, where did God the father get a resurrected body? Link to comment
dberrie2000 Posted October 22, 2014 Author Share Posted October 22, 2014 (edited) Do you believe in multiple Gods, as in more than the trinity? If not, where did God the father get a resurrected body? The Bible confirms the Divine Council of the gods--and other gods: Psalm 82:1---King James Version (KJV)82 God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods. 2 Corinthians 4:4----King James Version (KJV)4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. As for what the particulars of the resurrected body are--I have no idea. John 20:17----King James Version (KJV)17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. Edited October 22, 2014 by dberrie2000 Link to comment
thesometimesaint Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Do you believe in multiple Gods, as in more than the trinity? If not, where did God the father get a resurrected body? SEE 1 Corintians 8:5-6 5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) 6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. Link to comment
CA Steve Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 So in this council of Gods was there one more powerful than our God the Father? If not where did His resurrected body come from? Link to comment
thesometimesaint Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 So in this council of Gods was there one more powerful than our God the Father? If not where did His resurrected body come from? Our God is the most powerful God. Allahu Akbar We have no Revelation on that. 1 Link to comment
JAHS Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 (edited) Or, one that I feel has some significance: John 14:8-9---King James Version (KJV)8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father? But then other Christians use this scripture to show that Jesus is the Father who came to earth. Why are they asking to show them the Father when they are already looking at him (Jesus)? Edited October 22, 2014 by JAHS Link to comment
Recommended Posts