sjdawg Posted February 1, 2012 Posted February 1, 2012 Another thread got me thinking about this idea. Is there anything the LDS Church could do to attract members back. (specifically members that have left over historical or doctrinal issues - not those that have simply faded into inactivity)The truth is that I don't think there is anything they could do to get me back. That ship has left the dock and I don't see it turning around.I do think there are some things the LDS Church could do to keep current members from leaving but that is probably a different topic all together.What about you? Is there something you see that the LDS Church could do differently that would bring back the apostates?
sethpayne Posted February 1, 2012 Posted February 1, 2012 I think people could be like my Bishop. He knows my personal beliefs and, out of what I know is sincere concern and chartity, has expressed that he hopes my "orthodox" beliefs return. Regardless, he puts me to work in the ward! I do home teaching, teach the HP group occassionally, and get involved in service projects. It's great.I should say I think this is a two way street. Those who have lost their belief should not expect the Church, nor its members, to bend to their new worldview. I think mutual respect is the key -- even when there is a fundamental disagreement. Focus on common ground. Even if you are an ex-Mormon athiest you can recognize the good cultural values the Church promotes (hard work, self reliance, education, etc...) and could benefit from participating in the community. A buddy of mine is an athiest in Utah County but teaches priesthood, goes home teaching etc.... He doesn't expect the Church to change but he loves participating. 4
sjdawg Posted February 1, 2012 Author Posted February 1, 2012 I think people could be like my Bishop. He knows my personal beliefs and, out of what I know is sincere concern and chartity, has expressed that he hopes my "orthodox" beliefs return. Regardless, he puts me to work in the ward! I do home teaching, teach the HP group occassionally, and get involved in service projects. It's great.I should say I think this is a two way street. Those who have lost their belief should not expect the Church, nor its members, to bend to their new worldview. I think mutual respect is the key -- even when there is a fundamental disagreement. Focus on common ground. Even if you are an ex-Mormon athiest you can recognize the good cultural values the Church promotes (hard work, self reliance, education, etc...) and could benefit from participating in the community. A buddy of mine is an athiest in Utah County but teaches priesthood, goes home teaching etc.... He doesn't expect the Church to change but he loves participating.He does sound like a good Bishop. There were many things I like about the LDS Church and I sometimes do miss the social aspect of it.
thesometimesaint Posted February 1, 2012 Posted February 1, 2012 sjdawg:Change is hard but the first thing you must do is want to change.
sjdawg Posted February 1, 2012 Author Posted February 1, 2012 sjdawg:Change is hard but the first thing you must do is want to change.Are you talking about me changing or the LDS Church changing?
Sky Posted February 1, 2012 Posted February 1, 2012 The only thing that could satisfy some apostates is if the Church were to stop teaching that it is led by living prophets like unto Moses, to stop taking a literal interpretation of the Book of Mormon and the Book of Abraham, and distance itself from Joseph Smith. And accept homosexual relationships. Bascially stop being the LDS Church. So of course the Church is in a no-win situation with these people. But I do think the Church could make more of an effort to answer the harder questions head on instead of letting FAIR do all of it. Elder Marlin Jensen has indicated that the Church is trying to do this. It could hopefully help to prevent more members from leaving in the future.
Deborah Posted February 1, 2012 Posted February 1, 2012 The problem I have with this question is that it assumes the spirit is not part of the equation. In other words, it's tangibles like the history, that are the crux of a person's testimony which has never been the case. Accepting the gospel and joining the church has always been done by a spiritual confirmation. Usually a person who is firmly founded by a spiritual conversion can get through the things that may appear questionable. I think the things that appear questionable are just that: they appear to be so.So the answer to the question in the title: Probably nothing except what they've been doing since the restoration and that is getting people to get a personal confirmation from the Holy Spirit that these things are true. If they later decide that they were somehow mislead they have no one to blame but themselves. 3
thesometimesaint Posted February 1, 2012 Posted February 1, 2012 sjdawg:It can apply to both, but I don't see the Church changing near enough to appeal to all apostates. Some/few maybe but no where near all. At least in this life. The door is always unlocked on my side for the apostates to enter.
Popular Post Mark Beesley Posted February 1, 2012 Popular Post Posted February 1, 2012 Apostasy is normal. The cure lies with the apostate, not the Church. I suspect very few "historical issue" apostates would return to the fold if their "historical issues" were resolved. Until the apostate comes to the Lord with a broken heart and a contrite spirit, he will not be open to receiving the witness of the Holy Spirit which fortifies one against troubling information.I think on the Parable of the Sower, and realize that Christ was teaching that some apostasy is inevitable.3 . . . Behold, a sower went forth to sow;4 And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up:5 Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:6 And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.7 And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them:8 But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold.Matthew 13I believe those we call apostates are those where the seed fell on stony ground. They do not have the depth of testimony with roots sufficient to nurture them so they can bring forth good fruit. When the sun (troubling information) comes out, they wither, and what little testimony they had dies. What is the solution?Stony earth can be cultivated if it goes through some rather dramatic changes. The stones would have to be removed and/or crushed to a pont where they can bind with fertilizers and water. Both processes can be lengthy and painful. Whose resposibility is it to prepare the stony earth so that it can become good soil? Why, the owner of that particular plot, of course, i.e. the apostate. And therein lies the problem . . . what will motivate the apostate to go though such a changing process? Love. Not changes in doctrine. Not changes in teaching methods. Not changes in historical focus. Only love. Which is why Christ taught us to love - that love is the second great commandment - because only love saves. 5
CV75 Posted February 1, 2012 Posted February 1, 2012 Is there something you see that the LDS Church could do differently that would bring back the apostates?I don't see anything in addition to what it does now in the way of reaching out and rescuing on a one-on-one basis. Ultimately the ball is in the apostate's court .
Duncan Posted February 1, 2012 Posted February 1, 2012 I wouldn't classify people who leave the Church as apostate. Some come in and out in a matter of weeks or a few months and some have no real understanding of the Church, or basic christianity or the gospel.
Senator Posted February 1, 2012 Posted February 1, 2012 Apostasy is normal. The cure lies with the apostate, not the Church. I suspect very few "historical issue" apostates would return to the fold if their "historical issues" were resolved. Until the apostate comes to the Lord with a broken heart and a contrite spirit, he will not be open to receiving the witness of the Holy Spirit which fortifies one against troubling information.I think on the Parable of the Sower, and realize that Christ was teaching that some apostasy is inevitable.I believe those we call apostates are those where the seed fell on stony ground. They do not have the depth of testimony with roots sufficient to nurture them so they can bring forth good fruit. When the sun (troubling information) comes out, they wither, and what little testimony they had dies. What is the solution?Stony earth can be cultivated if it goes through some rather dramatic changes. The stones would have to be removed and/or crushed to a pont where they can bind with fertilizers and water. Both processes can be lengthy and painful. Whose resposibility is it to prepare the stony earth so that it can become good soil? Why, the owner of that particular plot, of course, i.e. the apostate. And therein lies the problem . . . what will motivate the apostate to go though such a changing process? Love. Not changes in doctrine. Not changes in teaching methods. Not changes in historical focus. Only love. Which is why Christ taught us to love - that love is the second great commandment - because only love saves.Great post Mark!I agree. Unconditional love. 1
Sky Posted February 1, 2012 Posted February 1, 2012 I wouldn't classify people who leave the Church as apostate.Maybe not all of them, but many of them are (at least the vocal ones on the internet).
Duncan Posted February 1, 2012 Posted February 1, 2012 Maybe not all of them, but many of them are (at least the vocal ones on the internet). not meaning you but some people IN the Church could be classified as apostates, wolves in sheep's clothing
Sky Posted February 1, 2012 Posted February 1, 2012 And if the Church ever did change to satisfy the concerns of the apostates, it would then get accused of being 20 years behind the times. So truly, the Church just can't win with certain people no matter what it does.
Sky Posted February 1, 2012 Posted February 1, 2012 not meaning you but some people IN the Church could be classified as apostates, wolves in sheep's clothingNew Order Mormons, maybe?
BCSpace Posted February 1, 2012 Posted February 1, 2012 What about you? Is there something you see that the LDS Church could do differently that would bring back the apostates?If some ancient fragments of writings were found that matched some part of the BoM or referred to it they still wouldn't come back.
Mark Beesley Posted February 1, 2012 Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) Call them to repentance.Regards,PahoranWith love . . . Edited to add:Upon reflection, I have to disagree that calling an apostate to repentance is the way to bring them back. The formula for bringing someone back into the Church is really rather simple.It starts with a faithful member who personally knows someone who has left the Church, for whatever reason. That member needs to take a sincere interest in being a true friend to that person. If it snows, go shovel his driveway early in the morning. Help with yard work. Invite him to dinner. Go see a movie together. And all the while, never breathe a judgmental word. In time, the "apostate," for lack of a better term, will find those stones beginning to crack, and some water may seep in, allowing for some growth of the Spirit. He will begin to seek answers. But it has to come from him, from within. Preaching to someone who is still "stony ground" is a waste of time, depending of course on what your goal is.Unfortunately, I am afraid the tendency of the faithful members may be the opposite of what they need to do. Rather then try to get closer to the person who has strayed, they shun them, sometimes because they are being pushed away . . . it ain't easy. That is why I would suggest things like shoveling snow . . . who's going to say, No, don't shovel my driveway? Edited February 1, 2012 by Mark Beesley 1
Mark Beesley Posted February 1, 2012 Posted February 1, 2012 If some ancient fragments of writings were found that matched some part of the BoM or referred to it they still wouldn't come back.I am reminded of Abraham's words to the rich man in hell, gazing upon Lazarus in Abraham's bosom, beseeching Abraham to send a messenger to his brothers to warn them. "And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead." Luke 16:31. 1
Bill “Papa” Lee Posted February 1, 2012 Posted February 1, 2012 I think people could be like my Bishop. He knows my personal beliefs and, out of what I know is sincere concern and chartity, has expressed that he hopes my "orthodox" beliefs return. Regardless, he puts me to work in the ward! I do home teaching, teach the HP group occassionally, and get involved in service projects. It's great.I should say I think this is a two way street. Those who have lost their belief should not expect the Church, nor its members, to bend to their new worldview. I think mutual respect is the key -- even when there is a fundamental disagreement. Focus on common ground. Even if you are an ex-Mormon athiest you can recognize the good cultural values the Church promotes (hard work, self reliance, education, etc...) and could benefit from participating in the community. A buddy of mine is an athiest in Utah County but teaches priesthood, goes home teaching etc.... He doesn't expect the Church to change but he loves participating.It is a delicate balance. Many people do not know that there are callings you can perform in our Church that do not require membership. Heck you do not even have to be an Apostle to serve in the First Presidency. I am glad you are there.
sethpayne Posted February 1, 2012 Posted February 1, 2012 It is a delicate balance. Many people do not know that there are callings you can perform in our Church that do not require membership. Heck you do not even have to be an Apostle to serve in the First Presidency. I am glad you are there.Thanks Pa Pa.Just to clarify: I am, and plan on always being, a member of the LDS Church. I'm proud to be LDS. 1
Sky Posted February 1, 2012 Posted February 1, 2012 Thanks Pa Pa.Just to clarify: I am, and plan on always being, a member of the LDS Church. I'm proud to be LDS. I'm glad you are a member, but I'm curious to know what draws you to the LDS Church, while not believing in many of its fundamental truth claims.
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