Ann Eliza Young

[Maidservant]

I am curious about Ann Eliza Young.

I watched a DVD called "The 19th Wife", which is a murder mystery movie set in contemporary polyganous Mormonism, and apparently based on a book of the same. I enjoyed this movie, and it is meant to be a piece of entertainment and fiction, and I took it as such.

However, I am aware enough to realize that the portrayals of both some of the polygyanous Mormon sect characters, and the flashbacks that portray Ann Eliza Young and Brigham Young as flat, at best (if one had never heard of Brigham Young before and only saw this movie, in this movie he is a powerful, selfish, randy old man and nothing further). Other character portrayals are done better (in my opinion).

Anyway, this has caused me to start reading Ann Eliza Young's own account (so I'm not complete on this). And I am just curious as to what the apologetic approach to her account and her life, is. I did a brief (not thorough) check on the FAIR wiki, but didn't see much. I should mention that my approach to church history is rather neutral. I am secure enough in my own religious experiences to have made my own decision on my faith, which does not rest on matters of church history. On the other hand, I appreciate knowledge and human experience in all its forms (i.e. Ann Eliza's expression).

So what I am hoping for in this thread:

*any discussion anyone wants to have on the movie "The 19th Wife", if you've seen it; including characterizations other than those of Ann Eliza Young and Brigham Young

*any discussion anyone wants to have on the history of Ann Eliza Young, Brigham Young as regards their marriage and divorce, etc, including her book she wrote (available through google books) (I also started with wikipedia's entry on Ann Eliza Young)

*if there is or was or can be a coherent (apologetic) reply to Ann Eliza Young or to the entire situation regarding her life and her perceptions

what I am hoping to avoid in this thread:

*a discussion on polygamy as a whole . . . I realize that every one is going to come to this thread with their own conclusions already in place about what good or bad that was, and that is fine . . . I really would like to focus on Ann Eliza Young and the portrayals of the movie "The 19th Wife"

Thanks!

[Pahoran]

Ann Eliza Webb Dee Young Denning tells a rather fascinating story. Anti-Mormons to this day happily repeat her absurdities -- I caught Kevin Graham at it not so long ago -- despite the fact that they are quite absurd. You can read about her here: http://maxwellinstit...okid=77&chapid= Start from chapter 11, "Sounding Brass Introduction" and read from there.

Incidentally, and just as a matter of interest: anyone who claims to rely upon Ann Eliza, but still wants to view Brigham Young as a "randy old man" is ignoring their source. Ann Eliza consistently said that her marriage to Brigham was platonic throughout.

But that's just not the kind of story that titillates, is it?

Regards,

Pahoran

[katherine the great]

I saw bits and pieces of the movie. One scene portrayed Ann Eliza's son as being Brigham Young's son. This is historically inaccurate and so I decided that the authors did not pay much attention to historical detail. I'm not a huge fan of Brigham Young's personality, but I thought that what I saw of this movie seemed way off. I don't completely write off Ann Eliza as a fibber--I'm sure there was a lot of truth in what she wrote, but I think it speaks volumes that she allowed her children to stay in Utah and that she lost touch with them later in life. In my mind, that is not an example of a stable person.

[Maidservant]

Ann Eliza Webb Dee Young Denning tells a rather fascinating story. Anti-Mormons to this day happily repeat her absurdities -- I caught Kevin Graham at it not so long ago -- despite the fact that they are quite absurd. You can read about her here: http://maxwellinstit...okid=77&chapid= Start from chapter 11, "Sounding Brass Introduction" and read from there.

Incidentally, and just as a matter of interest: anyone who claims to rely upon Ann Eliza, but still wants to view Brigham Young as a "randy old man" is ignoring their source. Ann Eliza consistently said that her marriage to Brigham was platonic throughout.

But that's just not the kind of story that titillates, is it?

Regards,

Pahoran

Thank you for the reference, I'll take a look at that. Yes, I figured the movie took liberties to make it more "exciting", sigh, but that made me want to get a clearer picture.

I saw bits and pieces of the movie. One scene portrayed Ann Eliza's son as being Brigham Young's son. This is historically inaccurate and so I decided that the authors did not pay much attention to historical detail. I'm not a huge fan of Brigham Young's personality, but I thought that what I saw of this movie seemed way off. I don't completely write off Ann Eliza as a fibber--I'm sure there was a lot of truth in what she wrote, but I think it speaks volumes that she allowed her children to stay in Utah and that she lost touch with them later in life. In my mind, that is not an example of a stable person.

Although I have just started to read Ann Eliza's book, it is clear that she is, at best, full of her own foregone judgment/conclusions/personal narrative of pain/justification. Although I agree with you that it would start at some truth of her experience (of pain). This whole subject is just a matter of curiosity to me, as I enjoy narratives, and Ann Eliza sounds like someone I would probably enjoy knowing if I actually met her.

[The Nehor]

I read the book and she struck me as a woman with a princess complex facetiously reaching for the smelling salts to deal with the horror of what she endured and then telling banal rather then scandalous stories.

The facts seem to shift any time she is a character in the story. At one point speaking out against polygamy is a way to get killed. In another she is merrily chatting away with her girlfriends about their contempt for polygamy without any fear.

She comes across as critical and oversensitive. I would have offended her within minutes of meeting her and probably would have laughed about it.

The woman was constantly complaining about luxuries she wanted off of Brigham and how denying her was so wrong. However she always ended up getting what she wanted despite Brigham being the monster she says he is. I think the passage that topped the whole thing for me is Ann Eliza is living in one of Brigham's homes and is complaining that there is only one staircase that she has to share with the servants (poor dear) and how certain rooms are too far apart. The woman was a wannabe aristocrat. I think I would have found her obnoxious.

If I remember correctly one of her relatives, upon hearing of her death, was cheered by this news. While morbid I'm not sure I would have disagreed had I been there.

[Maidservant]

I read the book and she struck me as a woman with a princess complex facetiously reaching for the smelling salts to deal with the horror of what she endured and then telling banal rather then scandalous stories.

The facts seem to shift any time she is a character in the story. At one point speaking out against polygamy is a way to get killed. In another she is merrily chatting away with her girlfriends about their contempt for polygamy without any fear.

She comes across as critical and oversensitive. I would have offended her within minutes of meeting her and probably would have laughed about it.

The woman was constantly complaining about luxuries she wanted off of Brigham and how denying her was so wrong. However she always ended up getting what she wanted despite Brigham being the monster she says he is. I think the passage that topped the whole thing for me is Ann Eliza is living in one of Brigham's homes and is complaining that there is only one staircase that she has to share with the servants (poor dear) and how certain rooms are too far apart. The woman was a wannabe aristocrat. I think I would have found her obnoxious.

If I remember correctly one of her relatives, upon hearing of her death, was cheered by this news. While morbid I'm not sure I would have disagreed had I been there.

Well.

I have read a bit farther in the book.

I try to point out positives of anyone and anything, and let negatives or weaknesses speak for themselves. So I'm trying to give Ann Eliza the benefit of the doubt. Not to mention that her style of writing is right up the alley of literature and reporting for the age (yellow journalism, sensationalism, etc), so in a sense she is a result of that milieu. So I'm inclined to forgive or indulge her a bit on that.

On the other hand, I can't really contradict your assessment.

Edited September 29, 2011 by Maidservant

[Calm]

She married James Dee at 19' had two kids, divorced him and according to Wallace claimed he blighted her life. At 24 she married BY and then proceeded to complain about him ruining her life. At 29 she divorced him, besides attempting to get a hefty alimony, she proceeded to sell property that did not belong to her. She then went on to make money off of preaching against polygamy, an interest she quickly lost when she managed to get Moses Denning to divorce his wife (after the family being kind enough to take her in) and marry her. This time it was him who left her, claiming her affairs with men as cause.

She comes across as a total user who cared for no one but herself and was willing to do pretty anything to get what she wanted.

[cinepro]

I don't know about Ann Eliza's book, but I couldn't get past the first few chapters of "The 19th Wife".

Boring and poorly written.

[jo1952]

Well.

I have read a bit farther in the book.

I try to point out positives of anyone and anything, and let negatives or weaknesses speak for themselves. So I'm trying to give Ann Eliza the benefit of the doubt. Not to mention that her style of writing is right up the alley of literature and reporting for the age (yellow journalism, sensationalism, etc), so in a sense she is a result of that milieu. So I'm inclined to forgive or indulge her a bit on that.

On the other hand, I can't really contradict your assessment.

Hi Maidservant!

From what I understand about her, she cannot have been a very happy person. She was not at peace with herself. It is not difficult to see how she could then cause so much unhappiness in her personal relationships.

Regards,

jo

[Maidservant]

She was not at peace with herself.

Hi, jo .

Yea. Good way to put it.

I am not even sure I can finish the book, it is a little tiring to read through the emotional content. But I still would like her story, such as it is, to be part of what is in my mind.

Anyway, wherever she is now, I hope she found that peace .