Giving Machines aren’t actually giving?

[Devobah]

https://youtu.be/S32H1-THYhg

This has popped up a few times on my feed when talking about the Giving Machines. I admittedly hadn’t watched it, but is there something that is not being said about what the Giving Machines are doing? I’m not much of a podcast guy but if I need to I can try and pay attention long enough to get to their main points. 

[Rain]

It's an hour and a half long so I don't want to watch it. 

I can tell you I am with an organization that has been helped twice with it and is currently in machines again this year.  We have been given so many funds.  Then we were required to have receipts of all of the items given with those funds.

Edited December 14, 2024 by Rain

[OGHoosier]

58 minutes ago, Devobah said:

https://youtu.be/S32H1-THYhg

This has popped up a few times on my feed when talking about the Giving Machines. I admittedly hadn’t watched it, but is there something that is not being said about what the Giving Machines are doing? I’m not much of a podcast guy but if I need to I can try and pay attention long enough to get to their main points. 

I speedread the transcript and looked at all the slides so you don't have to.

They literally admit that there's no malfeasance, that charity watchdogs say the Giving Machines are as clean as can be, the money goes where they say it does. The video is an hour-long rant about how they don't like that the Church puts its name on the machines and "takes credit for people's donations" by so doing, and bog-standard complaints about how the Church could donate the amount they collect from their own accounts if they want to. That's all they have to say. They finish it off by suggestions for a giving machine for new Exmos which includes, among other things, a VPN for P*rnHub and a kit to make people uncomfortable at the temple. 

These people are bad faith grifters trying to make the worst of a good situation and probably pocketing Youtube money along the way. I wish they'd have been happier in the Church, but failing that we are better off for their absence.

Edited December 14, 2024 by OGHoosier

[Pyreaux]

Oh, I guess since we only handle the logistics, it's not fair we get to put our name on the boxes? I'm sure if petty ant-mo's want their "organizations" to get credit for doing something good, they can, when their "organization" does something good.

[Rain]

OK, I decided to go ahead and watch it as double speed though I did skip the last part when they switched to helping an exmo.  

They talked about the ratio of what actually gets to the person in need and what goes to administrative costs.  They did say that 100% of the money goes to the charity, but some of that may go to the charity's administrative costs.  I don't know everything about how it works, but I think a lot more goes to the person in need with the giving machine. For example, the way I understand it from my charity they would give us say $100 for 5 diaper bags and then we have to give receipts listing those diapers for $100 so 100% does go to the person in need.  They brought up the charity needs someone to make the report. It may be true that the charity pays those people to do things like that (no one is paid at my charity - it's all volunteer) so if you need to pay someone extra to do those things then you could sort of count those funds as not being 100%. Generally, though I think those administrative costs were already built into the charity.  Either way, 5 people are going to get those diaper bags, it just may mean that administrative costs go up overall.

They did mention that they look into the charities' finances to make sure they are on the up and up which is a great thing.  Then they mentioned how they do not have the same openness with the church's own finances which is a valid point though it is a separate topic from the Giving Machines.

@OGHoosier you said "how they don't like that the Church puts its name on the machines".  Actually, they talked about how the church does not put its name on the machines. You also said, "trying to make the worst of a good situation".  I actually found that they were pretty fair with what they said.  They took some shots at the church, but they had a lot of good things to say about the handling of the giving machines.

Edited December 14, 2024 by Rain

[OGHoosier]

10 minutes ago, Rain said:

Actually, they talked about how the church does not put its name on the machines.

That's what I get for trusting an auto-generated transcript, I suppose. But also surprising because the Church's name is on the machines. I've seen that with my own eyes in my hometown. 

Edited December 14, 2024 by OGHoosier

[Rain]

25 minutes ago, OGHoosier said:

That's what I get for trusting an auto-generated transcript, I suppose. But also surprising because the Church's name is on the machines. I've seen that with my own eyes in my hometown. 

Was that this year?  I got the impression that has changed.  It may be that the newest machines don't have them and the older machines do.  

[OGHoosier]

21 minutes ago, Rain said:

It may be that the newest machines don't have them and the older machines do. 

Maybe so? The machines in my city right now have the Church's name on them. Maybe they're an older model, but they definitely do have the Church's name on the side.

Edited December 14, 2024 by OGHoosier

[Calm]

Name on 2019

https://www.westsiderag.com/2019/12/04/new-upper-west-side-giving-machine-is-a-charity-vending-machine

I wasn’t able to be sure, but it did appear to me the Giving Machine in Toronto did not refer to the Church.  All the other images I saw had the name on it so far.

https://www.instagram.com/givingmachinetoronto/?hl=en

possibly another one….The name is not on the front, but might be on the side.  The Church is mentioned at the end of the ad.

https://givingmachineskc.org

Edited December 14, 2024 by Calm

[rpn]

20 hours ago, Pyreaux said:

Oh, I guess since we only handle the logistics, it's not fair we get to put our name on the boxes? I'm sure if petty ant-mo's want their "organizations" to get credit for doing something good, they can,

The church does provide the machines and covers all the credit card processing fees and the costs of making sure everyone gets the full amount donated.   That is a hefty sum.

[The Mean Farmer]

For the record, you can choose to cover the price of the transaction fee with your purchase if you would like.

 

 

[Rain]

8 minutes ago, The Mean Farmer said:

For the record, you can choose to cover the price of the transaction fee with your purchase if you would like.

 

 

They mention this also and that if you don't the church covers it.

[halconero]

Folks need a crash course in welfare economics and the theory of the second best.

Are the Giving Machines Pareto optimal? Probably not - there's a consumption of time, effort, funds, and a sacrifice in fungibility that comes with them.

Given that reaching the "first-best" outcome is totally or highly unachievable, the Giving Machines meet the criteria for a "second-best" Pareto efficiency.