Why were people so against Joseph Smith.

[Dario_M]

I just had read a link about the life of Joseph Smith. @Calm had given me that link so i could study a bit about Joseph Smiths life. And i think he had a really tough life. People did not believed him when he told them about his revelations from God. When God told Joseph Smith that he needed to decipher the golden plates, a lot of people tried to steel the golden plates because they wanted to make money from it. Later on his translated scriptures were stolen, so it's quite well posible that his original storie has been changed  Joseph Smith has been beaten up as well aften from what i've red. Till the moment he got murdered. Why were people so horible for him? Why had he so many enemies. Even now most people can't say 1 positive thing about Joseh Smith. I don't understand why. That poor guy had so many enemies. It's just said if i think about it. All he wanne do was restore a new church. As God had told Joseph Smith to do. But so many people were against his mission. Mission Restore. 💪

[Frank11]

There is an interview with William Law, Joseph Smith's former counselor in the First Presidency. This at least shows why he turned against Joseph Smith. 

https://www.mrm.org/law-interview

[Dario_M]

15 minutes ago, Frank11 said:

There is an interview with William Law, Joseph Smith's former counselor in the First Presidency. This at least shows why he turned against Joseph Smith. 

https://www.mrm.org/law-interview

Yeah i don't really wanna listen to gossip interviews against Joseph Smith. That's not what my topic is all about. That poor man had it allready tough enough. With all the hate he was recieving from angry people. So...out of respect i only wanna figure out the truth about Joseph Smith and why people disliked this man so much. 

Edited September 24, 2024 by Dario_M

[Frank11]

39 minutes ago, Dario_M said:

So...out of respect i only wanna figure out the truth about Joseph Smith and why people disliked this man so much. 

... and you should never give the people concerned a chance to explain themselves, but always pre-judge them and label them as evil. 

I tell you, only the person who is concerned can give the answer to your question. If you ask 50 people why they were against Joseph Smith, you will get 50 true reasons.

Even if some are wrong in their reasons, it is the reason why they were against Joseph Smith. 
 

[Dario_M]

33 minutes ago, Frank11 said:

... and you should never give the people concerned a chance to explain themselves, but always pre-judge them and label them as evil. 

Well..that's not true. But i'm really not interested in gossip articles about Joseph Smith. I wanna figure out the real truth. 

33 minutes ago, Frank11 said:

I tell you, only the person who is concerned can give the answer to your question. If you ask 50 people why they were against Joseph Smith, you will get 50 true reasons.

No because every person seems to have a different opinion about that. 

33 minutes ago, Frank11 said:

Even if some are wrong in their reasons, it is the reason why they were against Joseph Smith. 
 

When they're wrong in their reasoning i will be not into that. 

 

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, Dario_M said:

Yeah i don't really wanna listen to gossip interviews against Joseph Smith. That's not what my topic is all about. That poor man had it allready tough enough. With all the hate he was recieving from angry people. So...out of respect i only wanna figure out the truth about Joseph Smith and why people disliked this man so much. 

So you want to know why people disliked him without reading accounts from people who disliked him?

I don’t think this is going to work very well.

[Dario_M]

Just now, The Nehor said:

So you want to know why people disliked him without reading accounts from people who disliked him?

I don’t think this is going to work very well.

I want articles about Joseph Smith that are honest about his life. I'm also open for opinions about Joseph Smith from other members of the board. But i just can not bare to spend my time listening to an article that's more gossip then actuall facts about Joseph Smiths life and why he had it so tough in his life. I'm sure you would understand.

[Frank11]

Even Bernard Gui, as an inquisitor 700 years ago, at least listened to the accused heretic.

We can ask him here.

[Dario_M]

19 minutes ago, Frank11 said:

Even Bernard Gui, as an inquisitor 700 years ago, at least listened to the accused heretic.

We can ask him here.

Yeah i'm fine with that. Let's ask him for clarity. 

[Snodgrassian]

4 hours ago, Frank11 said:

There is an interview with William Law, Joseph Smith's former counselor in the First Presidency. This at least shows why he turned against Joseph Smith. 

https://www.mrm.org/law-interview

@Dario_M this is the equivalent of Elder Oaks left the church and told his reasons why… I don’t think it should be considered gossip. Joseph Smith was a very polarizing person. You have to be to achieve what he did.  Many of the people that were with him at the beginning left, many stayed. Their stories are interesting and paint of picture of the early church. 

[Dario_M]

45 minutes ago, Snodgrassian said:

@Dario_M this is the equivalent of Elder Oaks left the church and told his reasons why… I don’t think it should be considered gossip. Joseph Smith was a very polarizing person. You have to be to achieve what he did.  Many of the people that were with him at the beginning left, many stayed. Their stories are interesting and paint of picture of the early church. 

Is that so. It seems like nobody really wanted anything to do with Joseph Smith. People loved to screw with him if i read the storie that Calm has given me. But uhm... who is Elder Oaks? 

[Snodgrassian]

49 minutes ago, Dario_M said:

Is that so. It seems like nobody really wanted anything to do with Joseph Smith. People loved to screw with him if i read the storie that Calm has given me. But uhm... who is Elder Oaks? 

He is a counselor in the first presidency and likely next president of the church.

William Law was Joseph Smith’s second counselor in the First Presidency when he left the church. Elder Eyring is in the same role William Law held.

[Dario_M]

12 minutes ago, Snodgrassian said:

He is a counselor in the first presidency and likely next president of the church.

Oh so he is still alive?

12 minutes ago, Snodgrassian said:

William Law was Joseph Smith’s second counselor in the First Presidency when he left the church. Elder Eyring is in the same role William Law held.

Really...it's really confusing

[Dario_M]

Members on the board!? What do you think about Joseph Smith? And do you like his character? 

[carbon dioxide]

8 hours ago, Dario_M said:

I just had read a link about the life of Joseph Smith. @Calm had given me that link so i could study a bit about Joseph Smiths life. And i think he had a really tough life. People did not believed him when he told them about his revelations from God. When God told Joseph Smith that he needed to decipher the golden plates, a lot of people tried to steel the golden plates because they wanted to make money from it. Later on his translated scriptures were stolen, so it's quite well posible that his original storie has been changed  Joseph Smith has been beaten up as well aften from what i've red. Till the moment he got murdered. Why were people so horible for him? Why had he so many enemies. Even now most people can't say 1 positive thing about Joseh Smith. I don't understand why. That poor guy had so many enemies. It's just said if i think about it. All he wanne do was restore a new church. As God had told Joseph Smith to do. But so many people were against his mission. Mission Restore. 💪

Both Joseph and Jesus were big threats to the devils kingdom.   Both had to be taken out but they both had missions to fulfill and they did so.  The good news is those ho fight against them lose.   All those who fought against Joseph are now in the spirit world in a world of hurt.   They are not having one good day right now as they await their final judgement.   It really sucks to be them.

[Dario_M]

1 hour ago, carbon dioxide said:

Both Joseph and Jesus were big threats to the devils kingdom.   Both had to be taken out but they both had missions to fulfill and they did so.  The good news is those ho fight against them lose.   All those who fought against Joseph are now in the spirit world in a world of hurt.   They are not having one good day right now as they await their final judgement.   It really sucks to be them.

Yeah? How do you know that so sure? This world seems te be so unfair. But if you're right with what you're telling me right now at least justice has been done by God.💫

But however...i'm agree with you. People like Joseph Smith or Jesus Christ...or others with the same important purpose who have important tasks to do, always seemed get prevented by angry people. People who don't wanna understand the importance of it and are only interested in their own greed. What qualifies these people: ? Angry, frustration, greed, rebellious, follow the herd, money, every man/woman for him(her)self, selfish, etc. It is as if those people always wanne ruin the important tasks that people like Joseph Smith or Jesus Christ has to do on this earth. I have experienced these kind of people in my own life. Sometimes it feels like the devil had planted a seed in those people. Offcourse i hope that it's not that bad. But i'm scared aften.

Edited September 24, 2024 by Dario_M

[Analytics]

33 minutes ago, Dario_M said:

Members on the board!? What do you think about Joseph Smith? And do you like his character? 

To me, Joseph Smith was a lot like a certain presidential candidate that shall not be named. He had bold visions and was a great friend, but he required absolute loyalty and wasn’t able to form any coalitions with people who weren’t willing to totally follow him. He was a great story teller, but wasn’t very good dealing with compromise and the complexities of reality, which is why almost all of his business deals went bankrupt.

Here are some facts about why Joseph Smith created so many enemies:

• He was a professional treasure digger, which many people thought was a scam of a profession.
• He had a pact with other treasure diggers that if they found treasure, they would share in the riches. Joseph Smith claimed he found some buried gold plates, but refused to share the wealth as he had promised.
• He created a bank and fraudulently claimed it had more in reserves than it really did. He claimed that God had promised him the bank would succeed and when his friends trusted him, they lost everything they put into it.
• He claimed Independence Missouri was given to him by God and attempted to displace the settlers who were already there. The Missourians on the frontier were an unruly lot, and many fights with the new settlers broke out. When a duly-appointed government militia was sent out to keep the peace, Joseph Smith declared it was an anti-Mormon mob and attacked it.
• In Illinois, he claimed his city charter meant that the people from Nauvoo weren’t subject to state or federal law, even if outside Nauvoo. This was put to the test multiple times, and people thought he was above the law.
• He lied to his wife, the membership of the Church, investigators of the Church, and the public at large about polygamy and who he was secretly getting “married” to.
• When a group of Latter-day Saints in Nauvoo tried to tell their fellow Saints the truth about how Joseph Smith was breaking the laws of the Church and was putting the Church in danger by abusing the Nauvoo charter, Joseph Smith burned down their paper.

[Frank11]

32 minutes ago, Analytics said:

• He was a professional treasure digger, which many people thought was a scam of a profession.
• He had a pact with other treasure diggers that if they found treasure, they would share in the riches. Joseph Smith claimed he found some buried gold plates, but refused to share the wealth as he had promised.
• He created a bank and fraudulently claimed it had more in reserves than it really did. He claimed that God had promised him the bank would succeed and when his friends trusted him, they lost everything they put into it.
• He claimed Independence Missouri was given to him by God and attempted to displace the settlers who were already there. The Missourians on the frontier were an unruly lot, and many fights with the new settlers broke out. When a duly-appointed government militia was sent out to keep the peace, Joseph Smith declared it was an anti-Mormon mob and attacked it.
• In Illinois, he claimed his city charter meant that the people from Nauvoo weren’t subject to state or federal law, even if outside Nauvoo. This was put to the test multiple times, and people thought he was above the law.
• He lied to his wife, the membership of the Church, investigators of the Church, and the public at large about polygamy and who he was secretly getting “married” to.
• When a group of Latter-day Saints in Nauvoo tried to tell their fellow Saints the truth about how Joseph Smith was breaking the laws of the Church and was putting the Church in danger by abusing the Nauvoo charter, Joseph Smith burned down their paper.

Doesn't look like Jesus to me, more like devils kingdom, to use carbon's words.

[Dario_M]

21 minutes ago, Analytics said:

To me, Joseph Smith was a lot like a certain presidential candidate that shall not be named. He had bold visions and was a great friend, but he required absolute loyalty and wasn’t able to form any coalitions with people who weren’t willing to totally follow him. He was a great story teller, but wasn’t very good dealing with compromise and the complexities of reality, which is why almost all of his business deals went bankrupt.

Here are some facts about why Joseph Smith created so many enemies:

Thanks for your opinion. 

21 minutes ago, Analytics said:

• He was a professional treasure digger, which many people thought was a scam of a profession.

- I don't understand why people thought that. Joseph Smith was bussy decipher the golden plates as God has commanded him to do. From what i've read it WERE the other people trying to steel the golden plates from Joseph Smith. On may think that those other people were the treasure diggers. 

21 minutes ago, Analytics said:

• He had a pact with other treasure diggers that if they found treasure, they would share in the riches. Joseph Smith claimed he found some buried gold plates, but refused to share the wealth as he had promised.

  

- God had commanded Joseph Smith to not show the golden plates to other people. His task was not to earn money from it. His task was to decipher the scriptures on the golden plates. 

21 minutes ago, Analytics said:

• He created a bank and fraudulently claimed it had more in reserves than it really did. He claimed that God had promised him the bank would succeed and when his friends trusted him, they lost everything they put into it.

- What? He created a bank? This was 200 years ago in 1820. Did banks even existed at that time? And Joseph Smith was a poor farmer btw. He had no money

21 minutes ago, Analytics said:

• He claimed Independence Missouri was given to him by God and attempted to displace the settlers who were already there. The Missourians on the frontier were an unruly lot, and many fights with the new settlers broke out. When a duly-appointed government militia was sent out to keep the peace, Joseph Smith declared it was an anti-Mormon mob and attacked it.

- A lot of people were against Joseph Smith and the LDS church. I believe he was in danger. That there were fights at that time doesn't surprise me.

21 minutes ago, Analytics said:

• In Illinois, he claimed his city charter meant that the people from Nauvoo weren’t subject to state or federal law, even if outside Nauvoo. This was put to the test multiple times, and people thought he was above the law.

Can be true. I haven't read anything about that. 

21 minutes ago, Analytics said:

• He lied to his wife, the membership of the Church, investigators of the Church, and the public at large about polygamy and who he was secretly getting “married” to.

- Well ... i absolutely don't believe this. This sounds like gossips to me. Who made the statement that Joseph Smith lied to his wife? What had investigaters to do with Joseph Smiths business? And who made the statement that Joseph Smith practiced polygamy?

21 minutes ago, Analytics said:

• When a group of Latter-day Saints in Nauvoo tried to tell their fellow Saints the truth about how Joseph Smith was breaking the laws of the Church and was putting the Church in danger by abusing the Nauvoo charter, Joseph Smith burned down their paper.

- Are you sure those where LDS members? It's most likely that those people were from a different church and where hating on Joseph Smith and his church. Wich happend a lot and they were given Joseph Smith a hard time. Were is the proof that Joseph Smit burnt down any paper? Sounds like gossips to me. 

[Snodgrassian]

4 minutes ago, Dario_M said:

Well ... i absolutely don't believe this. This sounds like gossips to me. Who made the statement that Joseph Smith lied to his wife? What had investigaters to do with Joseph Smiths business? And who made the statement that Joseph Smith practiced polygamy?

Here is a Church friendly website that discusses Joseph Smith’s polygamy. Brian and Laura Hales and their team have poured a ton of money and research into this topic.

https://josephsmithspolygamy.org

[SeekingUnderstanding]

10 minutes ago, Dario_M said:

I don't understand why people thought that. Joseph Smith was bussy decipher the golden plates as God has commanded him to do. From what i've read it WERE the other people trying to steel the golden plates from Joseph Smith. On may think that those other people were the treasure diggers

Joseph Smith was taken to court over his treasure digging activities. It’s part of the historical record and no one questions it. He used the same seer stone in translatIng the Book of Mormon as he used to direct treasure digging. 

[Dario_M]

10 minutes ago, Snodgrassian said:

Here is a Church friendly website that discusses Joseph Smith’s polygamy. Brian and Laura Hales and their team have poured a ton of money and research into this topic.

https://josephsmithspolygamy.org

Okay well...i will give it a go then. Thank you for you link. 

[Snodgrassian]

@Dario_M Analytics did not post anything that is not factually acknowledged by believers or non-believers. The disagreement is with intent. 
 

Church history is very interesting to dig into. These were amazing people who literally started with nothing and left the legacy that you get to enjoy all the way across the ocean. The church has released some books in recent years that tell many of the stories. Check with your local leadership to see if you can get a copy and dig into it. 

[Dario_M]

7 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

Joseph Smith was taken to court over his treasure digging activities

 

He was searching those Golden plates. 

7 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

 

It’s part of the historical record and no one questions it.

Okay.

7 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

He used the same seer stone in translatIng the Book of Mormon as he used to direct treasure digging. 

Well...i don't believe in that. 

Edited September 24, 2024 by Dario_M

[Dario_M]

2 minutes ago, Snodgrassian said:

@Dario_M Analytics did not post anything that is not factually acknowledged by believers or non-believers. The disagreement is with intent. 

I don't know what you mean? 

2 minutes ago, Snodgrassian said:

 

Church history is very interesting to dig into. These were amazing people who literally started with nothing and left the legacy that you get to enjoy all the way across the ocean. The church has released some books in recent years that tell many of the stories. Check with your local leadership to see if you can get a copy and dig into it. 

Yeah i will digg into it. But not to much. Because i'm scared that i will waste a bit of my time with it. And not only that but i have problems with my eyes. So i can't read too long at a time.