John Dehlin & Exmo Lex

[Dario_M]

Btw guys i suggest that everyone stays nice to each other right? Because as a matter of fact i feel a little attacked in my own topic to be honest. 

[Dario_M]

1 hour ago, Teancum said:

  What she or anyone else does is up to her.  

Yes that's true. And what my opinion is about that is then...up to me.

[Malc]

3 minutes ago, Dario_M said:

Btw guys i suggest that everyone stays nice to each other right? Because as a matter of fact i feel a little attacked in my own topic to be honest. 

It's a topic that some former members are still, after many years, a bit sensitive about - maybe even still angry about some things. Added to that is that this is mainly a faithful members board, so that former members may feel out-numbered, and hence defensive.

But I agree that, whether it's your own topic or not, we need to be kind in what we say, and perhaps try to be more understanding about the feelings behind what others say.

[Malc]

I should add that I feel Teancum's feelings - at least to some extent.

When I lost faith in the Church and its teachings, it almost cost me my marriage. Some years later I was excluded from my child's wedding. People's reactions to my sorrow ranged from "Oh, well!", to "What did you expect for your disobedience!", to "Why not just lie to the Bishop & Stake President, and get your temple recommend?", to (from non-member friends) "What do you mean you weren't allowed to witness the ceremony? That's cruel. You're as good as anyone else."

[Teancum]

44 minutes ago, Dario_M said:

It's a 4 hour video. There are plenty of claims that are just not true. But that's just to much for me to write down here. Plus i've also other things to do. 

Cop out. If there are plenty of not true claims you should be able to easily provide a few.

[Teancum]

40 minutes ago, Dario_M said:

Like i said it's a 4 hour vid and that's just to much for me to write down. Btw..i actually have allready made some examples but then you called me insensitive and no empathy. 

I have found your comments to lack empathy. Still you could provide some example of their misrepresantations.

[Stargazer]

20 hours ago, 2BizE said:

So, if I understand this correctly, you do not like that people share their own lived experiences on YouTube because they do not match up with your experience?

19 hours ago, Ragerunner said:

This is odd. If you don’t like someone’s YouTube video don’t watch it. (I do this all the time with videos.) Ask YouTube not to recommend the channel and move on with life.

I don't think it's a matter of dislike that people share their own lived experiences. It's a matter of disagreement with the conclusions that they have reached, and the right to express that disagreement. Are you guys the gatekeepers of who should be expressing their feelings or opinions? What gives either of you the right to tell another that they should stay away from that which they disagree with. You come here for the same thing yourselves, don't you? 

Everyone has the right to watch what they disagree with and express their disagreement with what has been shared. Dario is doing nothing more than expressing his feelings about what Dehlin and Lexi have posted. I think that's allowed. It's all fine to say "If you don't like it, don't watch it." And that's good advice sometimes. But there should be no blame associated with watching what one dislikes and expressing that dislike. 

 

[Dario_M]

11 minutes ago, Teancum said:

Cop out. If there are plenty of not true claims you should be able to easily provide a few.

Cop out? 🫤 

Okay i have one. I heard manny times the word "cult" from Lexo. That mormonism is an cult. And that is just not true. There are lovely people in this church and if this church is really an cult then every church is an cult in my opinion. But anyway..in my opinion that's a lie.

Edited August 22, 2024 by Dario_M

[Dario_M]

4 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

I don't think it's a matter of dislike that people share their own lived experiences. It's a matter of disagreement with the conclusions that they have reached, and the right to express that disagreement. Are you guys the gatekeepers of who should be expressing their feelings or opinions? What gives either of you the right to tell another that they should stay away from that which they disagree with. You come here for the same thing yourselves, don't you? 

Everyone has the right to watch what they disagree with and express their disagreement with what has been shared. Dario is doing nothing more than expressing his feelings about what Dehlin and Lexi have posted. I think that's allowed. It's all fine to say "If you don't like it, don't watch it." And that's good advice sometimes. But there should be no blame associated with watching what one dislikes and expressing that dislike. 

 

I'm so agree with you. 👍

[Stargazer]

50 minutes ago, Dario_M said:

Btw guys i suggest that everyone stays nice to each other right? Because as a matter of fact i feel a little attacked in my own topic to be honest. 

Is this your first time?  

 

[Rain]

12 minutes ago, Malc said:

I should add that I feel Teancum's feelings - at least to some extent.

When I lost faith in the Church and its teachings, it almost cost me my marriage. Some years later I was excluded from my child's wedding. People's reactions to my sorrow ranged from "Oh, well!", to "What did you expect for your disobedience!", to "Why not just lie to the Bishop & Stake President, and get your temple recommend?", to (from non-member friends) "What do you mean you weren't allowed to witness the ceremony? That's cruel. You're as good as anyone else."

I have one more wedding left and I've wondered how it is going to go.  I am very grateful that the church has let couples get married first and then be sealed, but I know that many still feel that is the wrong way to do it.  I wasn't sure about my faith when my daughter got married, but felt ok enough at the time to go to the sealing with her.  I feel grateful, though, that she wanted to share her wedding with her oldest sibling and that meant getting married and then being sealed about a week later.  My youngest has not got his eye on someone yet so we'll see. I'm grateful his sister showed him how beautifully getting married first and then sealed can go so I hope he chooses that. I don't think people understand how hard it can be for those who leave. I'm so sorry you had to deal with it before there was a choice. 

[Dario_M]

1 minute ago, Stargazer said:

Is this your first time?  

 

Well this is not my first topic actually. But normaly people are friendly in all my topics. But this is the first time i felt a little attacked in my topic. 😅

[Stargazer]

18 minutes ago, Teancum said:

I have found your comments to lack empathy. Still you could provide some example of their misrepresantations.

Don't be ridiculous. It's difficult to empathize with people who are vigorously trashing and misrepresenting something that one holds dear. 

But perhaps some empathy should be extended to one who feels deeply offended by what those two tools say? Of course if one is in full agreement with the tools, maybe that's a hard thing to muster.

[Dario_M]

1 minute ago, Stargazer said:

Don't be ridiculous. It's difficult to empathize with people who are vigorously trashing and misrepresenting something that one holds dear. 

But perhaps some empathy should be extended to one who feels deeply offended by what those two tools say? Of course if one is in full agreement with the tools, maybe that's a hard thing to muster.

This 100% 👍👍👍

[Teancum]

1 hour ago, Dario_M said:

Btw guys i suggest that everyone stays nice to each other right? Because as a matter of fact i feel a little attacked in my own topic to be honest. 

Well when you swim with the sharks.    😁

 

Did you expect to start a topic and have everyone simply agree with you?  I do not think I have attacked you. Just challenged some of your points.

[Stargazer]

16 minutes ago, Dario_M said:

Well this is not my first topic actually. But normaly people are friendly in all my topics. But this is the first time i felt a little attacked in my topic. 😅

You've hit on a controversial topic. There's bound to be pushback as a result. This place is a lot more civilized than some other forums, but even here it's not all rainbows and unicorns all the time. Try not to take things personally.

 

[Stargazer]

Just now, Teancum said:

Well when you swim with the sharks.    😁

Good thing I didn't have any Pepsi in my mouth when I read that, it would have ended up all over my laptop.

[Teancum]

31 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

I don't think it's a matter of dislike that people share their own lived experiences. It's a matter of disagreement with the conclusions that they have reached, and the right to express that disagreement. Are you guys the gatekeepers of who should be expressing their feelings or opinions? What gives either of you the right to tell another that they should stay away from that which they disagree with. You come here for the same thing yourselves, don't you? 

Nobody is telling anyone how to feel or react.  However, I have pushed back at the points @Dario_Mhas made, suggested he lacks empathy towards someone going through a faith crisis and to demonstrate the misrepresentations he claims are being made.  @Dario_Mstarted a topic and seems to simply want everyone to agree with him and hand him a handkerchief to wipe away his tears.

 

31 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

Everyone has the right to watch what they disagree with and express their disagreement with what has been shared.

Sure. And others have the right to disagree with what a poster posts about.

31 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

Dario is doing nothing more than expressing his feelings about what Dehlin and Lexi have posted.

Yes so?  Who is telling him not to express his feeling about it?

 

31 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

I think that's allowed.

Did someone say it was not allowed?

31 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

 

It's all fine to say "If you don't like it, don't watch it." And that's good advice sometimes. But there should be no blame associated with watching what one dislikes and expressing that dislike. 

 

I think one poster said don't watch if it bothers him. I may have said that as well. 

[Dario_M]

5 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

You've hit on a controversial topic. There's bound to be pushback as a result. This place is a lot more civilized than some other forums, but even here it's not all rainbows and unicorns all the time. Try not to take things personally.

 

You're right. I'm guilty of that behavoir. 

But mostely the people are quite friendly on this platform indeed.

[Teancum]

35 minutes ago, Dario_M said:

Cop out? 🫤 

Okay i have one. I heard manny times the word "cult" from Lexo. That mormonism is an cult. And that is just not true. There are lovely people in this church and if this church is really an cult then every church is an cult in my opinion. But anyway..in my opinion that's a lie.

I would not use the word cult to describe the church.  Others disagree with me. I think the church exhibits and employs methods, intentionally, or not, that are typical of high demand groups and mind control techniques.  But I would not say cult.

[Teancum]

1 minute ago, Dario_M said:

You're right. I'm guilty of that behavoir. 

But mostely the people are quite friendly on this platform indeed.

I am not trying to be mean to you. Just to note that going through a faith transition is really painful.  When one concludes that something they built their entire life on is not what they thought it was there are all sorts of painful emotions and ways to work through them. And people do it in different ways.  And having been on both sides I know when I was a full believer stuff like Dehlin and Exmo Lex do would have bugged me.  So I get it.

[Teancum]

22 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

Don't be ridiculous. It's difficult to empathize with people who are vigorously trashing and misrepresenting something that one holds dear. 

Jesus said to love your enemy did he not?  Sure it is tough. I was not suggesting he have empathy direct to Dehlin or Exmo Lex.  But for people who have lost faith and may be angry. Perhaps I was not clear.

 

22 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

But perhaps some empathy should be extended to one who feels deeply offended by what those two tools say? Of course if one is in full agreement with the tools, maybe that's a hard thing to muster.

Actually I just posted that I understand how @Dario_Mfeels having been on the other side as well.

[Dario_M]

I feel like Exmo Lex is doing this more for the attention. I mean...5 years has past and she's still making video's about the church. (Offcourse that's her right to do so) That meight be because she gets great attention from it. If she didn't had so much views on her video's she would have allready quit making video's i believe. It's actually not about the church anymore. But about the attention she get. 

Edited August 22, 2024 by Dario_M

[Stargazer]

3 minutes ago, Teancum said:

Nobody is telling anyone how to feel or react.  However, I have pushed back at the points @Dario_Mhas made, suggested he lacks empathy towards someone going through a faith crisis and to demonstrate the misrepresentations he claims are being made.  @Dario_Mstarted a topic and seems to simply want everyone to agree with him and hand him a handkerchief to wipe away his tears.

I can't speak for Dario on this, but I myself have a lot of empathy towards those who are having a faith crisis. And if can do something to help such folks assuage their grief (for grief is present in such cases), or overcome the crisis, I will. But I don't have a huge amount of empathy towards those who have had their faith crises some years back, and have subsequently turned their crises into profitable enterprises. 

Note that I am not saying they're not entitled to turn those crises into profitable enterprises, if they want. I'm all for free enterprise. I just don't have much (if any) empathy for them and their monetized crises. So I stay away from them so as not to contribute to their view counts. If others want to tilt at those particular windmills, that's up to them. I don't need the aggravation.

3 minutes ago, Teancum said:

Sure. And others have the right to disagree with what a poster posts about.

Yes so?  Who is telling him not to express his feeling about it?

@2BizE and @Ragerunner seemed to be telling him he had no business expressing his feelings, that he was supposed to just stay away if it bothered him so much. Perhaps that wasn't what they meant, but it's what I heard.

3 minutes ago, Teancum said:

Did someone say it was not allowed?

I think one poster said don't watch if it bothers him. I may have said that as well. 

It seemed stronger than that. But like I said, perhaps I was reading too much into it.

[Stargazer]

11 minutes ago, Teancum said:

Jesus said to love your enemy did he not?  Sure it is tough. I was not suggesting he have empathy direct to Dehlin or Exmo Lex.  But for people who have lost faith and may be angry. Perhaps I was not clear.

It might have been clear to him, but I apparently missed it. 

11 minutes ago, Teancum said:

 

Actually I just posted that I understand how @Dario_Mfeels having been on the other side as well.

Saw that.