LDS Church 13F filing

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, TheTanakas said:

In addition to what @Analytics posted here, I would speculate the church also has an
undisclosed amount in gold and silver.  Cash and stocks won't help much if there's a
significant financial crisis.  If the LDS investors are savvy, let's throw in some BTC and
ETH too.

In any significant financial crisis where multiple currencies lose much of their value precious metals and money that has no government backing won’t be worth much of anything either.

[blackstrap]

One would hope that the Church is heavily invested in toilet paper manufacturing. 🤑

[Leaf474]

3 hours ago, TheTanakas said:

In addition to what @Analytics posted here, I would speculate the church also has an
undisclosed amount in gold and silver.  Cash and stocks won't help much if there's a
significant financial crisis.  If the LDS investors are savvy, let's throw in some BTC and
ETH too.

Absolutely! Keeping in mind that nothing on Earth is absolutely secure, diversifying is a great idea!

 

Divide your portion to seven, yes, even to eight; for you don’t know what evil will be on the earth.

- Ecclesiastes 11

[Leaf474]

39 minutes ago, blackstrap said:

One would hope that the Church is heavily invested in toilet paper manufacturing. 🤑

I've heard that in any significant societal collapse, ammunition will skyrocket in value.

[The Nehor]

10 minutes ago, Leaf474 said:

I've heard that in any significant societal collapse, ammunition will skyrocket in value.

Temporarily. When we have lived in a capitalist society we assume it will continue the same way. In a societal collapse the people who know how to build friendships and communities will be successful.

The guy alone sitting on a hoard of bullets will make one trade and then get shot with the bullets he just traded away.

[carbon dioxide]

Lots of people complain that the Church is not spending its money in the way they would like it spent.   That is why most of these people are not financially well off.   They rather spend than invest.  Yes the church should spend a little more with its money like paying the bill for all missionary service.  However growing money is better than giving massive amounts away in the long term.  Consider Bill Gates.  He has given away billions to charities and sold off most of his Microsoft stock too early.  So even though he still has about 150 billion, had he not sold any of his Microsoft stock since the IPO in the 80s, his Microsoft stock holding would be about 1.2 trillion dollars.  Bill Gates would be a trillionaire today if he just held his shares.  He took literally a trillion dollars off the table by selling too soon.   Think of how much more good he could do with a trillion more dollars.   So I don't have a problem with the church having a 100 billion.  Sure it could do a lot of good today with that but it could to a lot more good in 10-15 years if it grows it to 300-500 billion.  

[The Nehor]

42 minutes ago, carbon dioxide said:

Lots of people complain that the Church is not spending its money in the way they would like it spent.   That is why most of these people are not financially well off.   They rather spend than invest.  Yes the church should spend a little more with its money like paying the bill for all missionary service.  However growing money is better than giving massive amounts away in the long term.  Consider Bill Gates.  He has given away billions to charities and sold off most of his Microsoft stock too early.  So even though he still has about 150 billion, had he not sold any of his Microsoft stock since the IPO in the 80s, his Microsoft stock holding would be about 1.2 trillion dollars.  Bill Gates would be a trillionaire today if he just held his shares.  He took literally a trillion dollars off the table by selling too soon.   Think of how much more good he could do with a trillion more dollars.   So I don't have a problem with the church having a 100 billion.  Sure it could do a lot of good today with that but it could to a lot more good in 10-15 years if it grows it to 300-500 billion.  

“Stop telling the wealthy how to spend their money. Also poor people are spending their money all wrong.”

[Calm]

7 hours ago, carbon dioxide said:

They rather spend than invest

When investing can get you knocked off of lower income help before you are in a position to do without them, thus quickly eating up investment once the line is crossed, dropping one back into lower income status or investment is destroyed with each new crisis so one has to live a relatively smooth life to buildup investment, there is not much motivation to save.

One also needs to learn how to save effectively to make it worthwhile when one has little wiggle room for crises and financial education may be hard to get when low income.

It can be expensive to be poor because you can’t afford the preventative work or investments that prevent major bills later on, like going to the dentist every six months or at least yearly, or upkeep on a car.

Edited February 18 by Calm

[Leaf474]

16 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Temporarily. When we have lived in a capitalist society we assume it will continue the same way.

 

16 hours ago, The Nehor said:

In a societal collapse the people who know how to build friendships and communities will be successful.

Possibly ❤️ Or those who know how to be a warlord (or warlady) will also be successful.

 

16 hours ago, The Nehor said:

The guy alone sitting on a hoard of bullets will make one trade and then get shot with the bullets he just traded away.

People being willing to kill for bullets would indicate their high value, would it not?

[Leaf474]

13 hours ago, carbon dioxide said:

Lots of people complain that the Church is not spending its money in the way they would like it spent.   That is why most of these people are not financially well off.   They rather spend than invest.  Yes the church should spend a little more with its money like paying the bill for all missionary service.  However growing money is better than giving massive amounts away in the long term.  Consider Bill Gates.  He has given away billions to charities and sold off most of his Microsoft stock too early.  So even though he still has about 150 billion, had he not sold any of his Microsoft stock since the IPO in the 80s, his Microsoft stock holding would be about 1.2 trillion dollars.  Bill Gates would be a trillionaire today if he just held his shares.  He took literally a trillion dollars off the table by selling too soon.   Think of how much more good he could do with a trillion more dollars.   So I don't have a problem with the church having a 100 billion.  Sure it could do a lot of good today with that but it could to a lot more good in 10-15 years if it grows it to 300-500 billion.  

Interesting thoughts  🤔 ❤️

 

A quote I heard, not sure who it is attributed to: How much money is enough? Just a little bit more.

 

"The one who loves silver shall not be satisfied with silver; nor the one who loves abundance, with increase: this also is vanity.  When goods increase, those who eat them are increased; and what advantage is there to its owner except to look on?

- Ecclesiastes 5

[The Nehor]

4 hours ago, Leaf474 said:

 

Possibly ❤️ Or those who know how to be a warlord (or warlady) will also be successful.

 

People being willing to kill for bullets would indicate their high value, would it not?

Problem is thinking of it still in a financial value context with the idea that getting the right stuff will make you an aristocrat in the post-collapse society. Most people who stockpile stuff end up dead. Just like most people in general will end up dead.

[Leaf474]

7 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Problem is thinking of it still in a financial value context with the idea that getting the right stuff will make you an aristocrat in the post-collapse society. Most people who stockpile stuff end up dead. Just like most people in general will end up dead.

Right, no sense stockpiling things. I'll agree with that ❤️

[Stargazer]

On 2/16/2024 at 7:38 PM, The Nehor said:

I have seen little evidence that the patrician class is better at this.

 

[Stargazer]

On 2/16/2024 at 2:33 PM, Tacenda said:

Transparency and plans to give back more to the members themselves. Who pay tithes.. And if it's going to run like a business in some ways, maybe use feedback from members on how to share that wealth in making the world a better place while also helping the members out. With leaving their tithing donations in their wards and stakes to cover expenses such as camps etc. And also church buildings that are falling apart. I've seen it and it's still happening in a building I play pickleball in. I guess things broken just stay broken. No matter how many times the members ask for help. 

There's an app that members can use to report facilities issues to those who are working to maintain buildings. See the screenshot below. I'm not sure that any member can use it to report issues, but I've used it to do so. Individual wards and stakes are not supposed to fix facility problems -- they are supposed to report issues. If issues don't get reported, they won't be fixed.

Maintenance does happen. My old ward building in Washington state was built in the 1960s, and during the 30 years I was in that ward there were at least 3 major upgrades. One of them involved a complete renovation of the landscaping, installation of an elevator (it is one of the rare two-storey buildings), new HVAC, and chapel revamping. Our facilities employees were busy over the entire area. Things get done -- maybe not as fast as they could be, but...

 

 

[Tacenda]

26 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

There's an app that members can use to report facilities issues to those who are working to maintain buildings. See the screenshot below. I'm not sure that any member can use it to report issues, but I've used it to do so. Individual wards and stakes are not supposed to fix facility problems -- they are supposed to report issues. If issues don't get reported, they won't be fixed.

Maintenance does happen. My old ward building in Washington state was built in the 1960s, and during the 30 years I was in that ward there were at least 3 major upgrades. One of them involved a complete renovation of the landscaping, installation of an elevator (it is one of the rare two-storey buildings), new HVAC, and chapel revamping. Our facilities employees were busy over the entire area. Things get done -- maybe not as fast as they could be, but...

 

 

Thanks for your trouble posting this, but that's been done time and time again. Among some of the problems is a cupboard to turn on lighting such as canned lights in the cultural hall that is going to fall on someone. It's hanging by a thread, when opened.  Anyone could fix it, but should they? And some lighting in the ceiling in the entrance, the gal I play pickleball with is the branch president's wife going from memory, or maybe her husband is in the presidency. She's the one doing the complaining and reporting.

BTW, my current ward building is just like yours, a two story built in the 60's probably. I dislike it so much, I'm trying not to be a snob. The carpet is terrible in the hallways when I'd vacuum it when I helped clean the building when we first moved there. The lighting is terrible, it is dark and dank with hardly any outside lighting coming in. Talk about a church building snob that am, sadly. 

[Stargazer]

36 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Thanks for your trouble posting this, but that's been done time and time again. Among some of the problems is a cupboard to turn on lighting such as canned lights in the cultural hall that is going to fall on someone. It's hanging by a thread, when opened.  Anyone could fix it, but should they? And some lighting in the ceiling in the entrance, the gal I play pickleball with is the branch president's wife going from memory, or maybe her husband is in the presidency. She's the one doing the complaining and reporting.

BTW, my current ward building is just like yours, a two story built in the 60's probably. I dislike it so much, I'm trying not to be a snob. The carpet is terrible in the hallways when I'd vacuum it when I helped clean the building when we first moved there. The lighting is terrible, it is dark and dank with hardly any outside lighting coming in. Talk about a church building snob that am, sadly. 

That's so weird. Like I said, they've renovated that old building a couple of times, including new carpets, new lighting in the chapel, and so on, too. It's really done up well.

My current ward building (in the UK) was built in the mid 1980s, and it's got a few things that need seeing to, but is in pretty good shape. Half of one of the big curtains between the cultural hall and the chapel overflow got damaged and had to be taken down, and we're hoping they'll replace it soon, but... A couple of years ago a section of the stone wall between the street and the parking area was in poor condition. I submitted an issue through FIR and a couple of months later they sent someone to repair it. I don't understand why some areas in the church seem to get maintenance attention while others don't. Maybe your facilities people are less competent?