Jesus is Not 'The Word'

[Bassil]

The author of the Book of John's introduction displayed an analogy to explain the relationship between God and Jesus. He compared the relationship between us and our words with the relationship between God and Jesus. Words express our thoughts, and likewise, God's thoughts were expressed by Jesus. It was just an analogy. The author never meant for the 'The word' to be a title given to Jesus!

Edited August 31, 2023 by Bassil
correcting misplaced words

[bluebell]

12 minutes ago, Bassil said:

The author of the Book of John's introduction displayed an analogy to explain the relationship between God and Jesus. He compared the relationship between us and our words with the relationship between God and Jesus. Words explain our thoughts, and likewise, God's thoughts were explained by Jesus. It was just an analogy. The author never meant for the 'The word' to be a title given to Jesus!

Is this your opinion or are you speaking as one having authority to teach such things?

[Sara H]

5 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Is this your opinion or are you speaking as one having authority to teach such things?

Everyone here is voicing their opinions, right? And I'm sure he'll express his viewpoint, but why does it matter if he is regarded as an authoritative figure? Does that mean that his views will be given more weight than those of others?

[Bassil]

6 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Is this your opinion or are you speaking as one having authority to teach such things?

It's just my opinion.

[Bassil]

3 minutes ago, Sara H said:

but why does it matter if he is regarded as an authoritative figure?

I am NOT an authoritative figure. 

[Sara H]

7 minutes ago, Bassil said:

I am NOT an authoritative figure. 

I agree with you. None of us are. 

[MustardSeed]

34 minutes ago, Sara H said:

Everyone here is voicing their opinions, right? And I'm sure he'll express his viewpoint, but why does it matter if he is regarded as an authoritative figure? Does that mean that his views will be given more weight than those of others?

I learned long ago that the culture of this site is to be clear about fact that can be backed up with sources at any moment and that often one will be on the spot to prove the source with a request for “CFR”.  If one is expressing opinion, the culture here is to state it as such.  
Many participants here have been here for years and years.  It’s socially correct to pay attention to cultures and to follow reasonable customs IMO. 

[mfbukowski]

1 hour ago, Sara H said:

I agree with you. None of us are. 

Great.

Now we can stop talking!

Thanks for fixing every problem in the world!

Edited August 31, 2023 by mfbukowski

[Sara H]

 

29 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

Great.

Now we can stop talking!

Thanks for fixing every problem in the world!

If you desire to be seen as an authority figure,I'll play along if it makes you feel better. 

Edited August 31, 2023 by Sara H

[Pyreaux]

I've seen worse ideas. There are those that say literally, the Word of God, as though God's actual speech were an appendage metaphysically made into an independent agent, Jesus. As that is the impression the scriptures can leave you with. LDS are inclined to say, Jesus speaks on God the Father's behalf, his words are God's words, in this sense one of many titles or epitaphs is, the Word of God. We'd say he's the Word, but not literally a word. Same goes for "The Name", some Messianic Jews think he's called the "Name of God", as though God's Name had a life of it own, rather than, like Hebrews 1, Jesus inherited God's name. He's a name bearer, not the name itself that has come to life.

Edited August 31, 2023 by Pyreaux

[jonah747]

3 hours ago, Bassil said:

The author of the Book of John's introduction displayed an analogy to explain the relationship between God and Jesus. He compared the relationship between us and our words with the relationship between God and Jesus. Words express our thoughts, and likewise, God's thoughts were expressed by Jesus. It was just an analogy. The author never meant for the 'The word' to be a title given to Jesus!

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the 
only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

[Calm]

3 hours ago, Sara H said:

Everyone here is voicing their opinions, right? And I'm sure he'll express his viewpoint, but why does it matter if he is regarded as an authoritative figure? Does that mean that his views will be given more weight than those of others?

Quite a few are doing much more than just voicing opinions by providing documentation and reasoning and even putting up positions that challenge their own. That is the more appreciated style of posting from what I have seen.

There are those who have come on the board claiming to be prophets or other types of spiritual authority and others who claim their personal experience is typical of a community when it is not, so it is wise to ask from what position a poster is speaking from if they start making statements of fact which they can’t support with evidence besides their personal beliefs. 

Edited August 31, 2023 by Calm

[Bassil]

3 minutes ago, Pyreaux said:

We'd say he's the Word, but not literal as a word.

We can't give titles to Jesus, not in a letteral sense or metaphorically, just because we think it's an appropriate title.

[MustardSeed]

18 minutes ago, Bassil said:

We can't give titles to Jesus, not in a letteral sense or metaphorically, just because we think it's an appropriate title.

Why not 

[jonah747]

18 minutes ago, Bassil said:

We can't give titles to Jesus, not in a letteral sense or metaphorically, just because we think it's an appropriate title.

Christ is a title given to Jesus.  It is not his last name.

[mfbukowski]

21 minutes ago, Bassil said:

We can't give titles to Jesus, not in a letteral sense or metaphorically, just because we think it's an appropriate title.

But that's exactly what you do.

[Bassil]

9 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

But that's exactly what you do.

Explain!

[Pyreaux]

36 minutes ago, Bassil said:

We can't give titles to Jesus, not in a letteral sense or metaphorically, just because we think it's an appropriate title.

Many Messianic Jews adopted a strict Sacred Name theology that dictates Jesus and God's proper names should be used often. We have a generally loose Ineffable Name theology, titles are used because the names are sacred, and should only be used sparingly. Like saying "Lord" instead of "Yahweh/Jehovah".

Edited August 31, 2023 by Pyreaux

[Tacenda]

58 minutes ago, jonah747 said:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the 
only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

 Do you have a reference?

[Calm]

26 minutes ago, Pyreaux said:

Jesus and God's proper names should be used often.

Should be used or should not be used?

[Calm]

3 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

 Do you have a reference?

It is John 1:1 and 1:14

[Pyreaux]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

Should be used or should not be used?

Should, there are Messianic Jews who say you should say Yahweh and Yashua, "to call upon the name" to be heard in prayer, to be saved "for there is no other name by which men can be saved". Saying "Lord" and "Jesus" and Sunday Worship is a conspiracy of Constantine and the Gentile Christians, and not the legacy of the Jewish Christians/Messianic Jews. So, not the position of orthodox Jews and Christian or Latter-day Saints, by which every name is a title and the sacred name is ineffable, it cannot be said.

Edited August 31, 2023 by Pyreaux

[Tacenda]

34 minutes ago, Calm said:

It is John 1:1 and 1:14

Thanks Calm, found this article I really like. It basically says the word is Jesus speaking for God. So IMO, not the entire Bible is God speaking. 

https://lifehopeandtruth.com/god/blog/john-1-1-how-is-the-word-with-god-and-also-god/

PS: Sorry I didn't find the scripture tending my granddaughter and being lazy.

[bluebell]

5 hours ago, Sara H said:

Everyone here is voicing their opinions, right? And I'm sure he'll express his viewpoint, but why does it matter if he is regarded as an authoritative figure? Does that mean that his views will be given more weight than those of others?

I won’t speak for you, but I think that most people agree that some opinions should be weighted more than others in general. Some have opinions based on study and information, research, etc. and others have opinions based on much less (sometimes based on nothing more than their own thoughts).  For me, it’s not reasonable to treat everyone’s opinion as equal.

But, I mostly asked that question because he stated his opinion as a fact and not as an opinion so I wasn’t sure how he was wanting the rest of us to take it.  I was looking for clarification, and he obliged.

 

[mfbukowski]

1 hour ago, Bassil said:

Explain!

You say we cannot give him titles

So you give him no titles which is constructing a LACK of titles.

You are arbitrarily restricting titles by saying "no titles"

You are creating a fable about titles without any more authority than those who give him titles.

You restrict title- giving without having any more rights to restrict them than those who give them.

It's your opinion vs theirs.

Edited August 31, 2023 by mfbukowski