California's New Abbey, St. Michael's Abbey

[smac97]

 

What an encouraging thing to see.  The optimism and structure is much needed.  

I also enjoyed reading the comments to this video.  Our Catholic friends are heartened and enthused:

Quote

It's very inspiring to see how beautiful this holy Abbey is. I never knew of the existence of this religious order I'm ashamed to admit. May God continue to bless you with more young priests as you shine a light in the darkness. And may St Michael the Archangel protect you always.

I live in Orange County and I’m so, sooooo proud of our St. Michael Abbey. Just as others have said, once you enter the Church you feel like you’re in Rome. It is beautiful!! My family and friends I bring there admire the Abbey.

How beautiful it is to see the truth and majesty of our Catholic faith being promoted in this blessed Abbey! Everything said in this video by the Priests (and the angelic chanting) is music to my ears and balm to my aching heart. May God bless and reward all these Priests and Seminarians!

This is a wonderful and encouraging video. The sacraments are not Latin sacraments!! They are the sacraments of the Roman Catholic Church. As long as we get them, that is the main thing. The St Michael’s Abbey is wonderful. May the Lord bless and protect them.

This is a remarkable video. Thank you. You captured the spirit of these dedicated and humble and brilliant and penitent Norbertines. You are right. This is a miracle. Fleeing the communists to Orange County and a desert with trailers and then 50 years later this God-brought beauty with the relics of home throughout the altars. Miracle sfter miracle happened to get to this abbey. I kneel nearly the moment I enter. You are humbled. There is hope there.

I'm proud to be a catholic seeing these priests is inspiring

it is great to see a religious community growing and thriving. May God bless you all

I'm so elated to learn there is this vibrant oasis of faith in California. Praying for many more vocations for the consecrated life.

Thanks,

-Smac

[MiserereNobis]

Thank you for sharing this! 

[Calm]

Beautiful 

[Saint Bonaventure]

I love this! 

These Norbertines have been receiving a little media attention of late. The whole, flee the corruption of the cities and find God in the desert has parallels with Moses, Elijah, Jesus, and the desert fathers of the 3rd century. More acute to today's culture, though, is there might be a revival of men in religious orders afoot, in part due to the ridiculous state of the culture when it comes to men and women.

 

[3DOP]

My son's wife's family has intimate ties with the Norbertines in Orange County. The parents of my daughter-in-law are third order Norbertines, and three of her sisters are Norbertine nuns attached to a convent in a town north of LA called, I think, Tehatchipee (it is phonetic but surely spelled wrong). Our son and daughter-in-law were married at the Basilica of San Juan Capistrano by a Norbertine priest according to the New Rite in Latin around ten years ago. I do not know if they still do this, but at that time, a Norbertine priest served the earliest Sunday Mass at Mission San Juan Capistrano saying the Traditional (Old) Latin Mass at which my wife and I once assisted.

Sadly, abuses occur much more frequently in the New Rite, and some faithful Catholics assume this is authorized by the Council (Vatican II), which called for needed liturgical reforms. For LDS, a liturgical abuse occurs whenever the Mass is deliberately celebrated in violation of the rubrics (rules) for the particular rite. I am glad that the Norbertines that I have seen, seemed like they would never make private innovations to the Mass.

Anyway, I have been away for a bit...doing a lot of reading and re-evaluating for a still working guy. For the Catholics here, I am still on a journey, as we all (LDS and non-LDS of course) are. I have softened towards the Council. Instead of mistrust or outright opposition, I have come to think that Traditional Catholics should boldly claim the Council against those in the Church who pay it no heed while pretending that their moral, doctrinal, and liturgical novelties are authorized by Vatican II. I am intending to attend the Vigil Mass next Sunday in the New Rite, for the first time since 2005, except for our daughter's wedding in Italy, when I was uncomfortable, but happy not to understand what was being said! 

It would seem inappropriate to discuss these matters here in more detail because our hosts couldn't comprehend it. But I am confident that they will not mind my mini-admission of great changes in thought to my brethren who linger here.   

[MiserereNobis]

3 hours ago, 3DOP said:

My son's wife's family has intimate ties with the Norbertines in Orange County. The parents of my daughter-in-law are third order Norbertines, and three of her sisters are Norbertine nuns attached to a convent in a town north of LA called, I think, Tehatchipee (it is phonetic but surely spelled wrong). Our son and daughter-in-law were married at the Basilica of San Juan Capistrano by a Norbertine priest according to the New Rite in Latin around ten years ago. I do not know if they still do this, but at that time, a Norbertine priest served the earliest Sunday Mass at Mission San Juan Capistrano saying the Traditional (Old) Latin Mass at which my wife and I once assisted.

Hey Rory! Nice to see you posting again.

I did a cursory google search, but based on your personal experience with the Norbertines, I figured you'd be able to answer more directly. Don't the Norbertines have their own rite? I know they are like the Carthusians, in that their rite was not abrogated by Pope St. Pius V. Did they give up their rite and fully adopt the Roman rite?

Personally, I hope not. I think a plurality of ancient rites is a positive. I completely agree with Pius V in abrogating "newish" (200 years or less) rites in order to standardize the Tridentine Mass, but I also think that ancient rites have a place in Holy Mother Church, to remind us of deep tradition and to show us that there is more than one specific way to approach God through the Sacraments (it's part of the same reason I adore the Oriental Rites).

4 hours ago, 3DOP said:

I have softened towards the Council. Instead of mistrust or outright opposition, I have come to think that Traditional Catholics should boldly claim the Council against those in the Church who pay it no heed while pretending that their moral, doctrinal, and liturgical novelties are authorized by Vatican II.

I fully agree. This is my position as well. I absolutely prefer the Tridentine Mass, but the Novus Ordo (autocorrect tried to change that to Oreo, make of that what you will... ha) is a valid Mass, and almost all liturgical abuses performed in its name can be shot down using its rubrics and the documents of Vatican II. I mean, Vatican II said that Latin is to hold pride of place. That the Church's music, Gregorian chant, is her greatest treasure. On and on. If the new mass were celebrated according to the dictates of Sacrosanctum Concilium (and the actual rubrics without the "extraordinary" options), I think liturgical abuse would disappear. It's the darn "Spirit of Vatican II" that people used to excuse the actual words of the council and that ended up norming the current problems in the new mass.

 

4 hours ago, 3DOP said:

I am intending to attend the Vigil Mass next Sunday in the New Rite

I'm honestly underwhelmed and let down when I attend a novus ordo mass, unfortunately. I know you're in an interesting area where the SSPX is dominant. I imagine the contrast between a solemn Tridentine mass and a standard new mass might be a let down to you, too. I'm lucky that I have a fully authorized FSSP parish about 40 miles away. It is fully supported by the Bishop, and he assured the priests after Pope Francis issued Traditionis Custodes that they had nothing to worry about and we've seen no changes. The worrisome issue, though, is what a new Bishop might do. But we're a well established parish with good ties to the diocese. There is also an SSPX chapel in the same diocese and I attended there for quite some time until the FSSP arrived. (I also lament the fact that some bad blood exists between FSSP and the SSPX).

Anyways, enjoy your Labor Day! Mow your lawn early when it's cool and then barbecue away! Have a beer and/or a smoky scotch and send a prayer to Our Lady for me, and I'll do the same for you.

+PAX+

Jesse

 

[3DOP]

On 9/3/2023 at 7:12 PM, MiserereNobis said:

Hey Rory! Nice to see you posting again.

I did a cursory google search, but based on your personal experience with the Norbertines, I figured you'd be able to answer more directly. Don't the Norbertines have their own rite? I know they are like the Carthusians, in that their rite was not abrogated by Pope St. Pius V. Did they give up their rite and fully adopt the Roman rite?

Personally, I hope not. I think a plurality of ancient rites is a positive. I completely agree with Pius V in abrogating "newish" (200 years or less) rites in order to standardize the Tridentine Mass, but I also think that ancient rites have a place in Holy Mother Church, to remind us of deep tradition and to show us that there is more than one specific way to approach God through the Sacraments (it's part of the same reason I adore the Oriental Rites).

I fully agree. This is my position as well. I absolutely prefer the Tridentine Mass, but the Novus Ordo (autocorrect tried to change that to Oreo, make of that what you will... ha) is a valid Mass, and almost all liturgical abuses performed in its name can be shot down using its rubrics and the documents of Vatican II. I mean, Vatican II said that Latin is to hold pride of place. That the Church's music, Gregorian chant, is her greatest treasure. On and on. If the new mass were celebrated according to the dictates of Sacrosanctum Concilium (and the actual rubrics without the "extraordinary" options), I think liturgical abuse would disappear. It's the darn "Spirit of Vatican II" that people used to excuse the actual words of the council and that ended up norming the current problems in the new mass.

 

I'm honestly underwhelmed and let down when I attend a novus ordo mass, unfortunately. I know you're in an interesting area where the SSPX is dominant. I imagine the contrast between a solemn Tridentine mass and a standard new mass might be a let down to you, too. I'm lucky that I have a fully authorized FSSP parish about 40 miles away. It is fully supported by the Bishop, and he assured the priests after Pope Francis issued Traditionis Custodes that they had nothing to worry about and we've seen no changes. The worrisome issue, though, is what a new Bishop might do. But we're a well established parish with good ties to the diocese. There is also an SSPX chapel in the same diocese and I attended there for quite some time until the FSSP arrived. (I also lament the fact that some bad blood exists between FSSP and the SSPX).

Anyways, enjoy your Labor Day! Mow your lawn early when it's cool and then barbecue away! Have a beer and/or a smoky scotch and send a prayer to Our Lady for me, and I'll do the same for you.

+PAX+

Jesse

 

Hey my friend,

I heeded your advice, and then only just now sent up an Ave for you.

Jesse...What has brought me around is reading Cardinal and Pope Ratzinger on the liturgy. Yes, the New Mass is a "banal, on the spot product". Cardinal Ratzinger wrote those words in the 80's in the preface to Msgr. Klaus Gamber's work on the New Mass, which is also critical in all of the ways that I still am. I had thought that maybe he Pope Benedict/Cardinal Ratzinger might have regretted the way traditionalists were able to exploit his criticism in the 80's. But then it appears again in his work, The Spirit of the Liturgy, where he uses the same language. I now hope that I understand better what he was trying to do with Summorum Pontificum. I am sure he knew that the New Mass needed some elevation of spirit from the Old, while holding that the Old Mass could not and should not stand absolutely still, as though perfection for all times and places was achieved in 1962. I was at the early Mass last Friday for the Feast of Our Lady's Nativity, 2nd Class...oops...company. if get a chance I'll continue!

B. McGuire...if you see this...I haven't forgotten your posts on the thread I started!

[Kenngo1969]

On 8/25/2023 at 7:05 AM, Saint Bonaventure said:

I love this! 

These Norbertines have been receiving a little media attention of late. The whole, flee the corruption of the cities and find God in the desert has parallels with Moses, Elijah, Jesus, and the desert fathers of the 3rd century. More acute to today's culture, though, is there might be a revival of men in religious orders afoot, in part due to the ridiculous state of the culture when it comes to men and women.

 

As a confirmed bachelor in a church that does not encourage celibacy, I need to start the Latter-day Saint equivalent of a Catholic order.  Any ideas???

[MiserereNobis]

7 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

As a confirmed bachelor in a church that does not encourage celibacy, I need to start the Latter-day Saint equivalent of a Catholic order.  Any ideas???

Start your own! That’s how all these orders began in the Catholic Church. You’d be the founder of the Kennians of the Strict Observance 😁

[LoudmouthMormon]

On 9/10/2023 at 11:15 PM, Kenngo1969 said:

As a confirmed bachelor in a church that does not encourage celibacy, I need to start the Latter-day Saint equivalent of a Catholic order.  Any ideas???

+1.    If you end up with property and buildings, don't forget to include a firing range.   I expect you'll be so successful, you'll need something to set you apart from our Catholic cousins.