Church looking for input for Marriage course

[MustardSeed]

FYI- 

 

Edited August 2, 2023 by MustardSeed

[rpn]

Do you have a link to what they are working on?   There is more than one publication about marriage.

[Pyreaux]

I imagine these are suggestions on how to stay married, not how to get married for singles/in-cels... Which I think is a growing problem. Nor on how it needs to be inclusive/gayer... though I bet it may get flooded with like suggestions.

Edited August 3, 2023 by Pyreaux

[MustardSeed]

2 hours ago, rpn said:

Do you have a link to what they are working on?   There is more than one publication about marriage.

So sorry for the garbage post- this is a request for assistance in rewriting the Marital Relationship course that is usually about 12 weeks and is taught during Sunday school hour. 

[rpn]

14 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

Marital Relationship course that is usually about 12 weeks and is taught during Sunday school hour. 

I'm pretty sure that the church doesn't use "Marital Relationship" course for sunday school (though maybe congregations do --- can you imagine how impossible it would be to be in that course surrounded by others talking about tough things, some of which will result in tears, at church where your kids and the rest of the ward will see you?  Set it up for time when few are there and have a nursery if necessary or get ministering people to do that at home so the couples get a little time to themselves after the class.) 

 

I see a

Strengthening Marriage Resource Guide for Couples

Strengthening Marriage and Family Family Guide Book

Eternal Marriage Student Manual Rel 234

Building an Eternal Marriage Rel 235

 

But no "Marital Relationship" title, so it would be pretty hard to advise what the material should be different.

I will never forget being asked within a few years of the Proclamation on the Family to give a talk on it.   In my talk I spoke about nurturing and providing being explicitly tied to gender with adaptations as necessary for the specific family circumstances as determined by the two.  I noted that there isn't a single word in it that says who does the dishes, mowes the law, takes out the trash or vacuums and the myriad other chores required to maintain a household.  Several years later I learned that my bishop and his wife had been in a battle at the time over one chore or another.  (Incidentally,  i was never asked to speak in that ward again.)

POINT ONE:  The manual should NOT genderize what has not been specifically genderized by God and should include techniques to work out shared money handling, reach shared decisions ---sometimes over time, shared time handling (with equal personal space for both partners and equal fun money to use as either chooses) within the overall budget.  

 

POINT TWO:  We should be strongly encouraging couples before they decide to marry or at least before they have locked down the wedding venue and date to really get to know each other.  Do work projects with each Family of Origin and peers and friends together, Talk about how they have lived their own discipleship and plan to continue (which almost everyone assumes everyone else is living exactly how they lived discipleship in their home.   (The 350 Question for Engaged Couples that Deseret Book publishes is useful and needed, but it is also important to see dating partners with their own friends and how they keep their apartment both cleaned and furnished and understand whether that was planned or is the way they want to do it going forward.)  

 

POINT THREE:  Before marriage every person should have a really good handle both on the way they handle conflicts of different kinds, the kinds of things they most have conflicts about and various techniques they use to deal with conflicts.   AND THEN they need  to experience how they match up with the other and talk about how they'll do it together moving forward.  

 

POINT FOUR:  It is important for couples (especially those going from parental home and paid for college dorm to marriage) to understand how you can successfully live and eat poor and still be okay.   And how to be the one at home with a hard to please child for hours while the other is doing something that looks preferable AS well as how hard it is to be working and missing out on home stuff to make money.     And it is important for couples to budget for life insurance from the date of their marriage. 

Personally I think that any marital class should use as its text "Bonds that Make Us Free" by C. Terry Warner.    It is sooo very easy to get overwhelmed in multiple situations as a newlywed and it is hard to work these out with a partner instead of the friends or parent or _______ you're used to being comforted by and bolstered by.

And while it may not fit with religious themes,  understanding how to fight fair and recognize your own bullying/demeaning speech and behaviors/withdrawing, giving up because I can never do anything right anyway, or even actual sabatoge and changing the way one talks and acts to not let them ooze out in any conflict has to be first and foremost importance.   Without that ability and self-control, it is impossible to have a godly relationship.  (I tell my friends to go get dancing lessons and then when they want to discuss some conflict, do it while dancing together in ten minute segments.)

 

I'll be happy to give the feedback to whomever wanted it, if I ever learn what manual they are talking about.   (Feel free to forward this general feedback to whomever you wish.)

[MustardSeed]

5 hours ago, rpn said:

I'm pretty sure that the church doesn't use "Marital Relationship" course for sunday school (though maybe congregations do --- can you imagine how impossible it would be to be in that course surrounded by others talking about tough things, some of which will result in tears, at church where your kids and the rest of the ward will see you?  Set it up for time when few are there and have a nursery if necessary or get ministering people to do that at home so the couples get a little time to themselves after the class.) 

 

I see a

Strengthening Marriage Resource Guide for Couples

Strengthening Marriage and Family Family Guide Book

Eternal Marriage Student Manual Rel 234

Building an Eternal Marriage Rel 235

 

But no "Marital Relationship" title, so it would be pretty hard to advise what the material should be different.

I will never forget being asked within a few years of the Proclamation on the Family to give a talk on it.   In my talk I spoke about nurturing and providing being explicitly tied to gender with adaptations as necessary for the specific family circumstances as determined by the two.  I noted that there isn't a single word in it that says who does the dishes, mowes the law, takes out the trash or vacuums and the myriad other chores required to maintain a household.  Several years later I learned that my bishop and his wife had been in a battle at the time over one chore or another.  (Incidentally,  i was never asked to speak in that ward again.)

POINT ONE:  The manual should NOT genderize what has not been specifically genderized by God and should include techniques to work out shared money handling, reach shared decisions ---sometimes over time, shared time handling (with equal personal space for both partners and equal fun money to use as either chooses) within the overall budget.  

 

POINT TWO:  We should be strongly encouraging couples before they decide to marry or at least before they have locked down the wedding venue and date to really get to know each other.  Do work projects with each Family of Origin and peers and friends together, Talk about how they have lived their own discipleship and plan to continue (which almost everyone assumes everyone else is living exactly how they lived discipleship in their home.   (The 350 Question for Engaged Couples that Deseret Book publishes is useful and needed, but it is also important to see dating partners with their own friends and how they keep their apartment both cleaned and furnished and understand whether that was planned or is the way they want to do it going forward.)  

 

POINT THREE:  Before marriage every person should have a really good handle both on the way they handle conflicts of different kinds, the kinds of things they most have conflicts about and various techniques they use to deal with conflicts.   AND THEN they need  to experience how they match up with the other and talk about how they'll do it together moving forward.  

 

POINT FOUR:  It is important for couples (especially those going from parental home and paid for college dorm to marriage) to understand how you can successfully live and eat poor and still be okay.   And how to be the one at home with a hard to please child for hours while the other is doing something that looks preferable AS well as how hard it is to be working and missing out on home stuff to make money.     And it is important for couples to budget for life insurance from the date of their marriage. 

Personally I think that any marital class should use as its text "Bonds that Make Us Free" by C. Terry Warner.    It is sooo very easy to get overwhelmed in multiple situations as a newlywed and it is hard to work these out with a partner instead of the friends or parent or _______ you're used to being comforted by and bolstered by.

And while it may not fit with religious themes,  understanding how to fight fair and recognize your own bullying/demeaning speech and behaviors/withdrawing, giving up because I can never do anything right anyway, or even actual sabatoge and changing the way one talks and acts to not let them ooze out in any conflict has to be first and foremost importance.   Without that ability and self-control, it is impossible to have a godly relationship.  (I tell my friends to go get dancing lessons and then when they want to discuss some conflict, do it while dancing together in ten minute segments.)

 

I'll be happy to give the feedback to whomever wanted it, if I ever learn what manual they are talking about.   (Feel free to forward this general feedback to whomever you wish.)

I apologize that I have communicated this so poorly.  Here is a better pic.  It is intended for the “Marriage and Family Relations Course”- I have taught this course a few times myself, always during the Sunday school hour and always to couples selected by the bishop to participate.  One year it was for everyone and folks were assigned alphabetically.  

Edited August 3, 2023 by MustardSeed

[MustardSeed]

And no I’ll not be sending recommendations myself.  I may have plenty but for whatever reason I’m disinclined to make the effort.  Your ideas are excellent. 

[Vellichor]

This manual is really old and hasn't been promoted by the Church for years. This request for feedback is on the title page and is pretty standard. I don't think it's a new request.

[The Nehor]

Dear Sir of Madam:

Divorce is a great evil. Marriage is the leading cause of divorce. Abolishing marriage will remove the scourge of divorce forever. Please withdraw your manual and stop supporting this pernicious practice that provides the only avenue to the sin of divorce.

Sincerely,

President Nehor,
Wise Heroes Of Respectful Engagement (WHORE)

[Meadowchik]

On 8/3/2023 at 6:27 PM, rpn said:

I'm pretty sure that the church doesn't use "Marital Relationship" course for sunday school (though maybe congregations do --- can you imagine how impossible it would be to be in that course surrounded by others talking about tough things, some of which will result in tears, at church where your kids and the rest of the ward will see you?  Set it up for time when few are there and have a nursery if necessary or get ministering people to do that at home so the couples get a little time to themselves after the class.) 

 

I see a

Strengthening Marriage Resource Guide for Couples

Strengthening Marriage and Family Family Guide Book

Eternal Marriage Student Manual Rel 234

Building an Eternal Marriage Rel 235

 

But no "Marital Relationship" title, so it would be pretty hard to advise what the material should be different.

I will never forget being asked within a few years of the Proclamation on the Family to give a talk on it.   In my talk I spoke about nurturing and providing being explicitly tied to gender with adaptations as necessary for the specific family circumstances as determined by the two.  I noted that there isn't a single word in it that says who does the dishes, mowes the law, takes out the trash or vacuums and the myriad other chores required to maintain a household.  Several years later I learned that my bishop and his wife had been in a battle at the time over one chore or another.  (Incidentally,  i was never asked to speak in that ward again.)

POINT ONE:  The manual should NOT genderize what has not been specifically genderized by God and should include techniques to work out shared money handling, reach shared decisions ---sometimes over time, shared time handling (with equal personal space for both partners and equal fun money to use as either chooses) within the overall budget.  

 

POINT TWO:  We should be strongly encouraging couples before they decide to marry or at least before they have locked down the wedding venue and date to really get to know each other.  Do work projects with each Family of Origin and peers and friends together, Talk about how they have lived their own discipleship and plan to continue (which almost everyone assumes everyone else is living exactly how they lived discipleship in their home.   (The 350 Question for Engaged Couples that Deseret Book publishes is useful and needed, but it is also important to see dating partners with their own friends and how they keep their apartment both cleaned and furnished and understand whether that was planned or is the way they want to do it going forward.)  

 

POINT THREE:  Before marriage every person should have a really good handle both on the way they handle conflicts of different kinds, the kinds of things they most have conflicts about and various techniques they use to deal with conflicts.   AND THEN they need  to experience how they match up with the other and talk about how they'll do it together moving forward.  

 

POINT FOUR:  It is important for couples (especially those going from parental home and paid for college dorm to marriage) to understand how you can successfully live and eat poor and still be okay.   And how to be the one at home with a hard to please child for hours while the other is doing something that looks preferable AS well as how hard it is to be working and missing out on home stuff to make money.     And it is important for couples to budget for life insurance from the date of their marriage. 

Personally I think that any marital class should use as its text "Bonds that Make Us Free" by C. Terry Warner.    It is sooo very easy to get overwhelmed in multiple situations as a newlywed and it is hard to work these out with a partner instead of the friends or parent or _______ you're used to being comforted by and bolstered by.

And while it may not fit with religious themes,  understanding how to fight fair and recognize your own bullying/demeaning speech and behaviors/withdrawing, giving up because I can never do anything right anyway, or even actual sabatoge and changing the way one talks and acts to not let them ooze out in any conflict has to be first and foremost importance.   Without that ability and self-control, it is impossible to have a godly relationship.  (I tell my friends to go get dancing lessons and then when they want to discuss some conflict, do it while dancing together in ten minute segments.)

 

I'll be happy to give the feedback to whomever wanted it, if I ever learn what manual they are talking about.   (Feel free to forward this general feedback to whomever you wish.)

"Bonds that make us free" is so good. My dad read it and sent all in the family a copy. I found it really impactful.

I think that learning about marriage begins in childhood. Children learn a lot from their families of origin and that builds their foundation for understanding marriage and/or family. 

In my experience, so much of the church narrative on marriage depends upon the temple marriage path. So, first: how many who are in the seats listening actually going to follow that narrative, but could still benefit from teachings about healthy relationships? Surely it is a very significant proportion. 

I think there is a danger in focusing centrally on temple marriage.

My second point is essentially the same but in how it impacts the temple-married or those who will be. I think a central focus on the temple can hinder best relationship decisions.

Ultimately, irrespective of the temple what does a good marriage look like, in all general respects? 

Essentially , if I could go back and learn again before my marriage, I would want to know much much more about how to have a healthy relationship.