Quran

[Hamilton Porter]

This thread is for Latter-day Saints who've read or are reading the Quran.

 

[Pyreaux]

I don't have an hour right now. I find it interesting how classically Muslims resist the pre-incarnation of Christ and don't see when Allah "sent a Word" to Mary and she conceived that the "Word" in Christian and some Jewish terms identify the Word as a divine entity, the Quran isn't simply saying Allah spoke it and it was done. 

[Hamilton Porter]

11 hours ago, Pyreaux said:

I don't have an hour right now. I find it interesting how classically Muslims resist the pre-incarnation of Christ and don't see when Allah "sent a Word" to Mary and she conceived that the "Word" in Christian and some Jewish terms identify the Word as a divine entity, the Quran isn't simply saying Allah spoke it and it was done. 

Sounds like you did watch it.

[Calm]

13 minutes ago, Hamilton Porter said:

Sounds like you did watch it.

Is that information available nowhere else?

[Pyreaux]

2 hours ago, Hamilton Porter said:

Sounds like you did watch it.

I've read the Quran account from this:

Christmas: The Original Story

[MiserereNobis]

18 hours ago, Pyreaux said:

I don't have an hour right now. I find it interesting how classically Muslims resist the pre-incarnation of Christ and don't see when Allah "sent a Word" to Mary and she conceived that the "Word" in Christian and some Jewish terms identify the Word as a divine entity, the Quran isn't simply saying Allah spoke it and it was done. 

Are you arguing that Muslims don't understand their own scripture?

[Hamilton Porter]

1 hour ago, MiserereNobis said:

Are you arguing that Muslims don't understand their own scripture?

Most Mormons don't see half of what's going on when they read the Book of Mormon. Even people who've read it 10-15 times.

You see these Mormons and exmos saying there's no law of Moses in the BOM. It's like, how do you know if it's in there or not when you don't know what the Law is?

[Hamilton Porter]

8 hours ago, Calm said:

Is that information available nowhere else?

It's probably available somewhere, or some version of it.

[Pyreaux]

1 hour ago, MiserereNobis said:

Are you arguing that Muslims don't understand their own scripture?

Of course. You must agree, if it has any hope of being true. If our scriptures all once came from a common source, then there are several instances I believe must be matters of interpretation. If Muhammad was a prophet, then Muslims are in Apostacy, and indeed may not understand their own scriptures. They don't know the context of our scriptures, as most Muslims haven't read the Bible and so have no idea why Jews want Jerusalem for.

Particularly Jesus' sonship, the has Quran is a bit f a one-sided conversation, it seems to respond to something the early Roman Christians were saying, they respond like the Christians were saying a son of God implies God had begotten a son through animal lust, correctly saying that Christ was miraculously conceived by the "Word" sent from Allah. We should agree, furthermore, they don't seem aware the Biblical idea of sonship is also a title bestowed on all baptized Christians, Davidic kings (2 Sam 7:2) and certain angels (Hebrews 1). None of these Biblical "sons of God" refer to a carnal conception.

There are other issues, like they believe in demons, but disbelieving in fallen angels, because angels can't disobey God. What if I interpret it to mean when an angel rebels they are no longer angels. Their dogma is very unyielding.

Edited February 20, 2023 by Pyreaux

[MiserereNobis]

14 minutes ago, Hamilton Porter said:

Most Mormons don't see half of what's going on when they read the Book of Mormon. Even people who've read it 10-15 times.

You see these Mormons and exmos saying there's no law of Moses in the BOM. It's like, how do you know if it's in there or not when you don't know what the Law is?

I guess I think it's (a little bit, no a lot, no completely) egotistical for someone to tell someone else how to understand their religion.

Unless, of course, you're Muslim?

[MiserereNobis]

Sorry. 

Edited February 20, 2023 by MiserereNobis

[Hamilton Porter]

4 minutes ago, Pyreaux said:

Particularly Jesus' sonship, Quran is a bit one-sided conversation, it seems to respond to something the early Roman Christians were saying, they respond like the Christian were saying a son of God implies God had begotten them through animal lust, correctly saying that Christ was miraculously conceived by the "Word" sent from Allah.

The Quran is full of invectives against polytheism, but now they're saying inscriptions show Mecca and Medina were monotheistic when the Quran was revealed.

 

[InCognitus]

13 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

I guess I think it's (a little bit, no a lot, no completely) egotistical for someone to tell someone else how to understand their religion.

Unless, of course, you're Muslim?

Christians have been telling the Jews how to understand their own scriptures for centuries two millennia.  I know a few Jews who feel quite insulted by that fact. 

Edited February 20, 2023 by InCognitus

[Pyreaux]

1 hour ago, MiserereNobis said:

I don't agree. Jeez, dude, is your hope of truth founded on some such stuff?

Not my hope, it's hope. If one plans to take the Quran seriously, as Christians that believe the divinity of Christ is true, means going against traditional Muslim interpretations. Perhaps an alien concept from someone whose religion is built on adhering to tradition, orthodoxy and reserving the right of interpreting their own scriptures, but you have your reasons, such as divine authority figures, but Muslims do not. I have no less authority to interpret their scriptures than they do.

Edited February 20, 2023 by Pyreaux

[Hamilton Porter]

30 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

I guess I think it's (a little bit, no a lot, no completely) egotistical for someone to tell someone else how to understand their religion.

I'm not telling Muslims they don't understand their religion. I certainly don't understand it as well as they do.

 

But people miss stuff all the time.

[Hamilton Porter]

19 minutes ago, InCognitus said:

Christians have been telling the Jews how to understand their own scriptures for centuries two millennia.  I know a few Jews who feel quite insulted by that fact. 

Especially because Jews are on average more intelligent than Christians.

 

[SeekingUnderstanding]

1 hour ago, Hamilton Porter said:

Even people who've read it 10-15 times.

You see these Mormons and exmos saying there's no law of Moses in the BOM. It's like, how do you know if it's in there or not when you don't know what the Law is?

Or maybe you can only find it if you really really want it to be there. 

[Hamilton Porter]

6 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

Or maybe you can only find it if you really really want it to be there. 

Tell me you don't know how to read without telling me you don't know how to read.

[Hamilton Porter]

There's a 500-page book on the subject.

https://www.amazon.com/Legal-Cases-Book-Mormon/dp/0842527125?ref=d6k_applink_bb_dls&dplnkId=aafeed29-8b98-4a99-b482-a096d648e6f8

[SeekingUnderstanding]

7 minutes ago, Hamilton Porter said:

There's a 500-page book on the subject.

https://www.amazon.com/Legal-Cases-Book-Mormon/dp/0842527125?ref=d6k_applink_bb_dls&dplnkId=aafeed29-8b98-4a99-b482-a096d648e6f8

If it was actually there, it seems like one page would be enough. As you say faithful members can read the book over a dozen times and miss it…

[Hamilton Porter]

Just now, SeekingUnderstanding said:

If it was actually there, it seems like one page would be enough. As you say faithful members can read the book over a dozen times and miss it

It's 500 pages because there's so much of it.

Most members (and exmos) don't read the Old Testament so they don't know the contents of the law. You included.

[SeekingUnderstanding]

8 minutes ago, Hamilton Porter said:

It's 500 pages because there's so much of it.

Most members (and exmos) don't read the Old Testament so they don't know the contents of the law. You included.

Wow that much huh!? I imagine that’s why Latter-day Saints convert so many Jews? Or do they not understand their own scripture like you do. Just like the Muslims don’t understand their scripture? And the Catholics don’t understand the New Testament? Or could something else be at play here?

Edited February 20, 2023 by SeekingUnderstanding

[Hamilton Porter]

10 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

Wow that much huh!? I imagine that’s why Latter-day Saints convert so many Jews? Or do they not understand their own scripture like you do. Just like the Muslims don’t understand their scripture? And the Catholics don’t understand the New Testament? Or could something else be at play here?

You shouldn't be participating in these conversations if you're not up to speed on the topic.

[OGHoosier]

22 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

If it was actually there, it seems like one page would be enough. As you say faithful members can read the book over a dozen times and miss it…

 don't think an inverse-relationship of truth and page volume is a broadly applicable standard.

[Hamilton Porter]

30 minutes ago, OGHoosier said:

don't think an inverse-relationship of truth and page volume is a broadly applicable standard.

...

Edited February 20, 2023 by Hamilton Porter