Bill “Papa” Lee Posted September 8, 2022 Posted September 8, 2022 (edited) For our British members located on this website. Edited September 8, 2022 by Bill “Papa” Lee
JustAnAustralian Posted September 8, 2022 Posted September 8, 2022 Not unexpected. Her death was announced today at 3:30am east Australian time, and it was last night that they said she was resting under medical supervision. Didn't expect it to as quick though. Even though everyone knew it was coming sooner than later, it was definitely an emotional hit when I woke up to the news this morning though.
Calm Posted September 8, 2022 Posted September 8, 2022 Really feels like the end of an era, not just something to be said. 4
The Nehor Posted September 11, 2022 Posted September 11, 2022 For our Irish members located on this website. LOL 1
Stargazer Posted September 12, 2022 Posted September 12, 2022 I've been out of the country (UK) all last week, in the mountains of Austria, and then on the evening of Thursday, 8 September, I noticed a Twitter item about the Queen's passing. My wife heard me say "Oh, crap!" and asked what that was for as she started to get ready for bed. I said, "I'll tell you in a moment." I checked for more details and confirmation (Twitter is a madhouse, and you have to verify everything), and it was confirmed. Now, I'm a Yank. My wife, however, is definitely British. She hung UK flags and flags with the Queen's portrait all around the outside of our house for the Queen's platinum jubilee just a few months ago. She's not a crazy royalist, but she is definitely a patriot. So I was hesitant to tell her about this. I will also own a certain amount of affection for the Queen as a absolutely super lady. But there was no point in delay, so I went to her and gave her the bad news. Of course my voice cracked a bit as I told her "The Queen has passed away." She did not react badly, but was rather nonplussed, and wanted to find the BBC on our mostly German-language TV. So we watched the reports coming across. My wife finally said that it was not unexpected -- I had told her earlier that I heard the Queen was under medical supervision -- and it was what it was. We've both been following what is happening, and have watched as King Charles III has been conducting the necessary public business that goes along with a royal accession. She tells me that it still hasn't hit her fully yet. Something I made: On the Passing of Elizabeth II 1
Stargazer Posted September 12, 2022 Posted September 12, 2022 On 9/11/2022 at 1:11 AM, The Nehor said: For our Irish members located on this website. LOL Do we have any? Irish members on this website, I mean.
The Nehor Posted September 13, 2022 Posted September 13, 2022 8 hours ago, Stargazer said: Do we have any? Irish members on this website, I mean. I have no idea. I just found that hilarious and wanted to post it. I also have a friend from India who had a bottle of champagne saved to be opened when the Queen died. A lot of nations and individuals out there that do not have much reason to love the British monarchy.
Calm Posted September 13, 2022 Posted September 13, 2022 I don’t remember anyone saying they were Irish in the past; no guarantee that there wasn’t, though I think I would remember if they shared their location and were around for awhile.
Calm Posted September 13, 2022 Posted September 13, 2022 Got smart and did a Google on Ireland and this website:
Stargazer Posted September 13, 2022 Posted September 13, 2022 (edited) 5 hours ago, The Nehor said: I have no idea. I just found that hilarious and wanted to post it. I also have a friend from India who had a bottle of champagne saved to be opened when the Queen died. A lot of nations and individuals out there that do not have much reason to love the British monarchy. Granted. I guess the fact that the British Empire was, at times, cruel and heartless (what empire was not?), hardened the hearts of many towards it and its legacy, even some within the UK itself. And Elizabeth, despite having personally had nothing to do with any of that, and being largely powerless to affect British policy over the entire duration of her "reign", is nevertheless a symbol of that legacy. So she gets the brunt of it, instead of the ones who did and do actually direct that policy. There have been a small number of nominally UK people who have refused the honor of an offered Order of the British Empire because they have issues with the British Empire. I say small, only in comparison to the number of who have accepted such an honor. Some give their reasons, and some do not, and some of them refuse because of the association with the Empire. As for Ireland, when Queen Elizabeth II made a state visit to the Republic of Ireland in 2011, polling showed that 77% of the people of Ireland approved of the visit, and even Gerry Adams, president of the political party Sinn Féin at the time, decided finally that he was OK with it. There were a few scattered protests, of course, but the visit was rather successful. I note that it is a habit with people that they tend to remember the negatives more readily than the positives. There is a saying in the US Army that "a thousand atta-boys can be cancelled by one aw-sh*t." And I note also that those whose ancestors were cruel and heartless try to overcome their own negative legacy by dumping on the legacy of others. Human nature being what it is. Edited September 13, 2022 by Stargazer
The Nehor Posted September 13, 2022 Posted September 13, 2022 4 hours ago, Stargazer said: Granted. I guess the fact that the British Empire was, at times, cruel and heartless (what empire was not?), hardened the hearts of many towards it and its legacy, even some within the UK itself. And Elizabeth, despite having personally had nothing to do with any of that, and being largely powerless to affect British policy over the entire duration of her "reign", is nevertheless a symbol of that legacy. So she gets the brunt of it, instead of the ones who did and do actually direct that policy. There have been a small number of nominally UK people who have refused the honor of an offered Order of the British Empire because they have issues with the British Empire. I say small, only in comparison to the number of who have accepted such an honor. Some give their reasons, and some do not, and some of them refuse because of the association with the Empire. As for Ireland, when Queen Elizabeth II made a state visit to the Republic of Ireland in 2011, polling showed that 77% of the people of Ireland approved of the visit, and even Gerry Adams, president of the political party Sinn Féin at the time, decided finally that he was OK with it. There were a few scattered protests, of course, but the visit was rather successful. I note that it is a habit with people that they tend to remember the negatives more readily than the positives. There is a saying in the US Army that "a thousand atta-boys can be cancelled by one aw-sh*t." And I note also that those whose ancestors were cruel and heartless try to overcome their own negative legacy by dumping on the legacy of others. Human nature being what it is. The 77% poll is a little dubious due to the source. Considering the history of the United States with the British monarchy this shouldn't be a foreign concept to distrust the monarchy. The United States just have had a century or two longer to put it in the past compared to Ireland and India. 1
Stargazer Posted September 13, 2022 Posted September 13, 2022 1 hour ago, The Nehor said: The 77% poll is a little dubious due to the source. Don't trust The Telegraph? I suppose you'd prefer The Guardian. Anyway, the author of the article just asserts the figure and doesn't give a source for the claim, or discuss it further in the body of the article. But after a little research I found an Irish source that tends to corroborate it. It is this article that appeared in the Irish Central newsletter in 2011. It said that "The Sunday Independent/Quantum research poll reveals that 95 percent of those polled said they thought the Queen had won the hearts of the Irish people with a series of symbolic gestures over the course of her stay." That's a post- not pre-visit assessment, of course. But it does seem to indicate there had been a general positive feeling about her visit before it happened. 1 hour ago, The Nehor said: Considering the history of the United States with the British monarchy this shouldn't be a foreign concept to distrust the monarchy. The United States just have had a century or two longer to put it in the past compared to Ireland and India. No, it shouldn't be a foreign concept to distrust any possible dictator. Distrust of any authority should be the watchword, even if that authority is elected. We still harbor negative feelings towards George III because he was the symbol of oppression in our revolution, even if his actual personal power was nowhere near as strong as, say, Edward I Longshanks was. Living in the UK as I do now, I have taken a strong interest in how things work here, and my overall impression of the monarchy is that it still holds a great deal of public support. But while the monarch does have real power, it has very seldom been exercised. And would be exercised contrary to Parliament at great risk! I have heard it said that the monarch knows very well that if he or she were to exercise any power without real public support, he or she would shortly find that the cases of Charles I (beheaded) and James II (deposed and exiled) remained viable options. What happened to Ireland and India a hundred to two hundred years ago were not done at the behest of the then current monarchs, but of "their" governments. Kind of like the cart was before the horse-- and of course the horse catches the blame even if the cart was in actual control. This video by the Royal Family Channel talks about the King/Queen's authority:
Stargazer Posted September 13, 2022 Posted September 13, 2022 12 hours ago, The Nehor said: I have no idea. I just found that hilarious and wanted to post it. I also have a friend from India who had a bottle of champagne saved to be opened when the Queen died. A lot of nations and individuals out there that do not have much reason to love the British monarchy. I see that Raingirl has chimed in with a downvote. So I reacted to neutralize her disapproval. Even if I thought your friend from India is being a bit too gauche. I have friends from India who live here and aren't pleased at all that the Queen has died.
The Nehor Posted September 14, 2022 Posted September 14, 2022 The only way to save the monarchy is lots and lots of inbreeding.
Stargazer Posted September 14, 2022 Posted September 14, 2022 4 hours ago, The Nehor said: The only way to save the monarchy is lots and lots of inbreeding. The inbreeding canard is wildly overblown, actually. There was one egregious example in Spanish royalty, but otherwise, not really a problem. All the monarchies, nobilities, and former monarchies and nobilities in Europe are well-mixed with each other. And besides, when the Normans invaded England in 1066 it wasn't just the nobles who arrived, but their commoners as well. It wasn't long before the pre-1066 population began to acquire genes from their Norman invaders. And while the royal lines tended not to marry commoners, the males were rather generous in distribution of genes to the Celto-Romano-Anglo-Saxon women, and thus the conquered intermarried that way with their conquerors. Add to this the fact that successful commoners were frequently raised to the level of the nobility, and hence could then make their contributions to the genetics of the former conquerors, including contributions into the royal lines. Princess Diana and Prince Charles were 9th cousins, and while part of her descent included the royal Tudors (both were descendants of King Henry VII), there were plenty of non-noble ancestors in her line -- she was more closely related to a German-British banking family, for example, than to the Tudors. And by way of illustration, Princess Diana is a 10th cousin to me. I'm also a distant cousin of Anne Boleyn, Queen Elizabeth I, and King Charles III (we're 12th cousins). So, though I'm an American, I have royal blood! If the information in FamilySearch.org is correct -- which may not be fully accurate. As I've done research, I discovered that people had a tendency to want to claim membership in royal and noble lines when they really had nothing to do with them. In one case that I reported to Family Search, one of my lines supposedly came out of a noble/royal family through children who had actually died before reaching child-bearing age. That got corrected. If you've got your genealogy uploaded to Family Search, you can use BYU's "Relative Finder" to come up with famous people you may be related to: https://www.relativefinder.org/ It's kind of fun. Just checked, and I am a cousin to 15 presidents of the church. The only ones who weren't my cousins were John Taylor and Harold B. Lee.
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