webbles Posted June 9, 2022 Posted June 9, 2022 I came across an article from 1985 that said that on the night before the murders: Quote Dan began reading from a green and white book. The passages described ways of killing people, and as he read, Ron correlated the material with passages in the Bible. Any thoughts on what the "green and white book" is? It would be interesting to know if one of the passages discusses throat slicing.
webbles Posted June 11, 2022 Author Posted June 11, 2022 My current idea is "Mormonism - shadow or reality". There are red, green, and white versions that I've found. And a 1964 version is green. I don't know if they owned it but the tv show has Allen telling the detective to read it (though it was red in the tv show) so Black might have learned some that they did have it. 1
Tacenda Posted June 11, 2022 Posted June 11, 2022 (edited) 14 hours ago, webbles said: My current idea is "Mormonism - shadow or reality". There are red, green, and white versions that I've found. And a 1964 version is green. I don't know if they owned it but the tv show has Allen telling the detective to read it (though it was red in the tv show) so Black might have learned some that they did have it. There's this one on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Case-Against-Mormonism-Vol-1971/dp/B0087VBHK6/ref=pd_sbs_sccl_1_22/135-8446682-6621258?pd_rd_w=RdS1q&content-id=amzn1.sym.332ad193-f618-461a-9620-42bf983a8f8e&pf_rd_p=332ad193-f618-461a-9620-42bf983a8f8e&pf_rd_r=YDQREFYA2094BX745PT3&pd_rd_wg=RfKkB&pd_rd_r=ce451a2a-2ec5-4402-a0c9-c7d72bb08955&pd_rd_i=B0087VBHK6&psc=1 But this does look slightly green as well: https://openlibrary.org/books/OL24226727M/Mormonism_-shadow_or_reality Edited June 11, 2022 by Tacenda
webbles Posted June 11, 2022 Author Posted June 11, 2022 14 minutes ago, Tacenda said: There's this one on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Case-Against-Mormonism-Vol-1971/dp/B0087VBHK6/ref=pd_sbs_sccl_1_22/135-8446682-6621258?pd_rd_w=RdS1q&content-id=amzn1.sym.332ad193-f618-461a-9620-42bf983a8f8e&pf_rd_p=332ad193-f618-461a-9620-42bf983a8f8e&pf_rd_r=YDQREFYA2094BX745PT3&pd_rd_wg=RfKkB&pd_rd_r=ce451a2a-2ec5-4402-a0c9-c7d72bb08955&pd_rd_i=B0087VBHK6&psc=1 But this does look slightly green as well: https://openlibrary.org/books/OL24226727M/Mormonism_-shadow_or_reality I'm not exactly sold on the idea that the Laffertys had "anti-mormon" literature. They were still believers at this time of Joseph Smith and Brigham Young. Most of the "anti-mormon" literature of the day (like Case Against Mormonisms and Mormonism-Shadow or Reality) were very anti Joseph and Brigham. Take the Mormonism-Shadow or Reality. It points out the issues with the Book of Mormon, First Vision, money digging. I'm not sure how the Laffertys would use parts of the book (such as blood atonement, temple ceremonies, or Mountain Meadow Massacre) and ignore the other parts. I would like to find a more "faithful" book that is green and white. Something like a Times and Seasons, Journal of Discourses, a pamphlet from Prophet Onias, a pamphlet from another fundamentalist group, etc. I'm going through the Mormonism-Shadow or reality to find the passages that talk about killing people. It definitely has passages about killing people, but I'm not sure how useful they would be for the Laffertys. 1
Calm Posted June 11, 2022 Posted June 11, 2022 (edited) I wonder if the book was with them or their belongings and is in the evidence list. @smac97 and other lawyers or paralegals etc, is there a way for you to online access the documents associated with the 1985 Lafferty trial(s)? Be interesting to look at for many other reasons. Edited June 11, 2022 by Calm 1
The Nehor Posted June 12, 2022 Posted June 12, 2022 Quote Dan began reading from a green and white book. The passages described ways of killing people, and as he read, Ron correlated the material with passages in the Bible. 22 hours ago, Peppermint Patty said: Floppy, Mopsy, and Cottontail had it coming. Looking back I wonder about that story. It is about a child experiencing trauma because he wanted to eat vegetables? His sisters were getting blackberries which objectively taste sweeter? Peter was a weirdo. 1
webbles Posted June 12, 2022 Author Posted June 12, 2022 12 hours ago, JustAnAustralian said: History of the church volume 4? Thanks. I noticed that both volume 3 and 4 were greenish. There's an online version at https://byustudies.byu.edu/further-study/history-church/. I looked through the Table of Contents for both of them and selected a few chapters that I thought could be related. But I'm not seeing any "passages describ[ing] ways of killing people". Volume 3 is the Missouri troubles, so it includes Haun's Mill, Danites, etc but not really anything about actually killing people. And volume 4 is the beginning years of Nauvoo which doesn't seem to have anything about killing. So, I don't think those were the books. 1
Tacenda Posted June 12, 2022 Posted June 12, 2022 Tanners put this out online of several blood atonement quotes from various LDS publications if that helps. http://www.utlm.org/onlinebooks/changech20.htm#493
webbles Posted June 12, 2022 Author Posted June 12, 2022 27 minutes ago, Tacenda said: Tanners put this out online of several blood atonement quotes from various LDS publications if that helps. http://www.utlm.org/onlinebooks/changech20.htm#493 That's from the book "The Changing World". The cover is, unfortunately, red (http://www.utlm.org/onlinebooks/changecontents.htm). So I don't think it would be the book that Dan was reading from. Thanks, though. 1
Tacenda Posted June 12, 2022 Posted June 12, 2022 1 hour ago, webbles said: That's from the book "The Changing World". The cover is, unfortunately, red (http://www.utlm.org/onlinebooks/changecontents.htm). So I don't think it would be the book that Dan was reading from. Thanks, though. Well, I didn't mean the whole book, the link I shared had quotes from many books put out by the church and thought one of them could be it.
webbles Posted June 12, 2022 Author Posted June 12, 2022 6 minutes ago, Tacenda said: Well, I didn't mean the whole book, the link I shared had quotes from many books put out by the church and thought one of them could be it. Oh, that's an interesting idea. The various books mentioned in there are: Times and Seasons - I haven't found a green published version of this. Doctrines of Salvation - I've seen volume 1 and 2 with a dust cover that is green. But I don't know the publishing date for those books with that dust cover. Quest for Empire - I haven't found a green published version of this Mormon Doctrine - I've found a green version of this Journal of Discourses - I haven't found a green published version of this. Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought - This might have green versions since it is a periodical but haven't found one yet for the right time period. Need to look into it. The Reed Peck Manuscript - I've found a green version of this Confessions of John D. Lee - I haven't found a green published version of this. Thanks
Calm Posted June 12, 2022 Posted June 12, 2022 Who knows, maybe they had a journal that was green and white and were writing notes and their own ideas in it. 2
smac97 Posted June 13, 2022 Posted June 13, 2022 On 6/11/2022 at 1:18 PM, Calm said: I wonder if the book was with them or their belongings and is in the evidence list. @smac97 and other lawyers or paralegals etc, is there a way for you to online access the documents associated with the 1985 Lafferty trial(s)? Be interesting to look at for many other reasons. Some appellate materials relating to the trial are available through BYU's law library: Quote Ronald Watson Lafferty v. State of Utah : Brief of Appellee Author: Utah Supreme Court Publication: Utah Supreme Court Briefs (2000– ) Download Date: 01/2006 Ronald Watson Lafferty v. State of Utah : Brief of Appellant Author: Utah Supreme Court Publication: Utah Supreme Court Briefs (2000– ) Download Date: 01/2006 State of Utah v. Ronald Watson Lafferty : Brief of Respondent Author: Utah Supreme Court Publication: Utah Supreme Court Briefs (through 1999) Download Date: 01/1986 The State of Utah v. Ronald Watson Lafferty : Brief of Appellant Author: Utah Supreme Court Publication: Utah Supreme Court Briefs (through 1999) Download Date: 01/1986 The State of Utah v. Ronald Watson Lafferty : Petition for Rehearing Author: Utah Supreme Court Publication: Utah Supreme Court Briefs (through 1999) Download Date: 01/1988 Thanks, -Smac
Calm Posted June 13, 2022 Posted June 13, 2022 (edited) Unfortunately not the original; I believe I have already read this one. But I appreciate the favor. Thank you. Just in case this info hadn’t been posted before, warning graphic detail of murder at the end of quote. The formatting and spelling is messed up, I tidied it some. Quote Petitioner was an active member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (the LDS Church) and the product of a strictly religious family State v Lafferty, 2001 UT 19 f3, 20 P 3d 342, cert denied, 534 U S 1018 (2001) 2 Shortly after returning from his LDS mission, petitioner married Diana Sayer. They had six children Id 3 Those who knew petitioner prior to 1982 described him as a strong family man Petitioner was also a prominent member of his community, serving for a time on the city council in Highland, Utah Id 4 Between 1982 and 1983, petitioner spent increasingly large amounts of time with his brother Dan Lafferty Dan had been m constant trouble for failing to pay taxes and disobeying the licensing regulations that governed his chiropractic practice Id at ^4 5 Petitioner began to meet regularly with Dan, as well as with his brothers Tim, Mark, and Watson, to discuss politics and religion Petitioner became increasingly converted to Dan's philosophies on government intervention Those who knew petitioner well remarked that he seemed to have changed drastically in both his beliefs and his personality further from mainstream society Id at ^4-5 6 In 1983, the LDS Church excommunicated petitioner for violating the law, refusing to support his children, failing to sustain the church leaders, and teaching and advocating doctrine contrary to the LDS church's Id at \5 and n 2 7 The following year, petitioner's wife Diana filed for and obtained a divorce and moved with their six children to Florida Id at \6 8 Defendant felt his excommunication was unjust and was distraught over the dissolution of his marriage Id 9 Petitioner and his brothers met Robert Crossfield when they opened their religious and political discussions to others According to Mr Crossfield, God instructed him to teach the Lafferty brothers how to receive revelation and to organize themselves into the "School of the Prophets " The brothers claimed that they began to receive communications from God and would meet as a group to discuss these "revelations " Id at ^|7 10 Allen, the youngest Lafferty brother, and the husband and father to the murder victims, had no direct involvement with the School of the Prophets Dan testified, "I don't think Allen necessarily showed an interest He wasn't called We were all called by revelation, and he wasn't called " Id at f7 n 3 11 Petitioner told his brothers that he had received a revelation that his ex-wife Diana had been the wife of the devil in a previous world Petitioner believed their union angered the devil According to petitioner, the devil's jealousy led him to cause petitioner trouble in this world Id at 12 In the spring of 1984, petitioner claimed to have received the "removal revelation " \ccording to petitioner, God ordered the "removal" of Allen's wife, Brenda, their fifteen-month-old laughter, Erica, Richard Stowe, and Chloe Low Id 13 Prior to receiving the "removal revelation," petitioner had expressed negative feelings about the four named persons to family members and friends Petitioner believed that all four in some way either had helped his wife obtain a divorce or played a part in his excommunication from he LDS Church Id at ^9 14 Petitioner thought that Brenda had encouraged Diana to divorce him On several occasions before the removal revelation, petitioner called Brenda a "**** " Petitioner told Allen that Brenda "had better stop talking to Diana," that "people weren't safe in meddling in his affairs anymore," and that "he felt justified in taking action of some sort against people who crossed him " d and n 5 15 After the removal revelation, petitioner explained that fifteen-month-old Erica needed to be removed because "she would grow up to be a **** just like her mother" Id 16 Chloe Low, Diana's friend, helped and encouraged Diana to leave petitioner Id 17 Richard Stowe, petitioner's and Diana's ecclesiastical leader, served on the church council that excommunicated petitioner He also counseled Diana during the divorce proceedings and helped her obtain financial aid from the LDS Church Id 18 Petitioner claimed to have received another revelation on 13 March 1984 commanding that he and the School of the Prophets "consecrate" an "instrument" for removing the four named persons Only Dan and Watson agreed The others involved with the School of the Prophets felt that this and the removal revelation were not of God and disassociated themselves from the revelations The School of the Prophets disbanded as a result of the disagreement Petitioner and Dan continued m their belief that the revelations needed to be fulfilled Id at \\Q 19 On the morning of 24 July 1984, petitioner, Dan, and their friends Charles Carnes and Ricky Knapp planned to go to Salt Lake City for the day Before leaving, petitioner told the group that he felt impressed that they should go to his brother Mark's house to pick up a rifle Id at \\1 20 Mark asked what they planned to do with the gun because petitioner had quit hunting years earlier Petitioner replied that he was going hunting for "[a]ny ****ing thing that gets in my way" Id 21 From Mark's home, the men headed to Allen's apartment, apparently to look for another rifle On the way, petitioner and Dan began discussing whether they should fulfill the "removal revelation" that day Id 22 At Allen's apartment, petitioner left the car and knocked on the door When no one answered, petitioner returned to the car and drove away, heading toward Salt Lake City Id at % 12 23 Before they had traveled far, Dan said that he felt impressed to turn around and return to Allen's apartment When they arrived, Dan went to the door and knocked This time, Brenda Lafferty answered the door Id 24 Dan pushed past Brenda into the apartment and remained inside alone with Brenda for a few minutes The men in the car heard the two fighting inside the apartment Petitioner left the car and entered the apartment Id at ^[13 25 Mr Carnes testified that, once petitioner entered the apartment, he could hear petitioner calling Brenda a ' ****" and a "liar," and that he could hear Brenda being beaten. Mr. Carnes heard Brenda screaming, "Don't hurt my baby Please don't hurt my baby " He could also hear the baby crying, "Mommy, mommy, mommy " The apartment then became quiet 26 A few minutes later, petitioner and Dan exited from the rear of the apartment and returned to the car, their clothes covered in blood 27 The men next drove to the Low home Id On the way, petitioner commented that Chloe Id at ^14 Low's small size would make her an easy target 28 When they reached the Low home and determined that no one was there, the men broke into the home and took numerous items As they left, petitioner began talking about going on to Richard Stowe's home Id 29 The men accidentally missed the turnoff to the Stowe home Petitioner and Dan decided to abandon trying to fulfill the rest of the revelation They stopped at a service station and then headed toward Wendover Id atfl5 30 Mr Carnes testified that, on the way, petitioner pulled a knife out of his boot, started to bang it on his knee, and said, "I killed her I killed her I killed the **** I can't believe I killed ler " He then handed the knife to Dan, and said, "Thank you, Brother, for doing the baby because I don't think I had it in me " Dan replied, "It was no problem " Id at ^15 31 In Wendover, the four men rented a small kitchenette apartment where they cleaned up, ate, and spent the night The next night, Mr Knapp and Mr Carnes, afraid of what the Lafferty brothers said that they had done, quietly left the apartment and drove away in the car While traveling along Interstate 80, they found the knife in the car They rolled the knife in a towel and threw it out the window Later in Twin Falls, Idaho, they disposed of a bag of bloody clothing and other personal effects belonging to petitioner and Dan They then proceeded to Mr Carnes' brother's house in Cheyenne, Wyoming, where they were arrested on 30 July 1984 Id at ^[16 32 On 17 August 1984 FBI agents arrested petitioner and Dan in Reno, Nevada Id 33 When Allen Lafferty arrived home from work on the evening of 24 July 1984 he found his wife and fifteen month-old daughter dead Id at ^17 34 Brenda was in the kitchen lying in a pool of blood She had suffered a severe beating and had contusions and bruises on her face, head, shoulders, arms, thigh, knees, and back Evidence established that a vacuum cord had been tightly and repeatedly wrapped around her neck A six- inch long incision had sliced through her trachea, both jugular veins, and both carotid arteries and left a cut on her spinal column Blood was smeared on the walls, drapes, door, and light switches There was evidence throughout the apartment of a major struggle Id 35 Fifteen month-old Erica lay in a puddle of her own blood and propped against the back of her crib with her head slumped over Erica's throat was cut from ear to ear The incision sliced through both her carotid arteries, both jugular veins, and her esophagus and cut her cervical spinal column Only bone and a little tissue attached her head to her body Id at ^18 36 Both Brenda and Erica were alive when their throats were slit Id 37 The State charged petitioner with capital murder and related crimes him and sentenced him to death on the capital murder charges The Utah Supreme Court affirmed State v Lafferty, 749 P 2d 1239 (Utah 1988) 38 Petitioner, did not seek collateral relief lnthe Statecouxts^mstead, he proceeded directly to federal collateral review The United States District for the District of Utah denied relief Edited June 13, 2022 by Calm
Calm Posted June 15, 2022 Posted June 15, 2022 I will share the source later, but Dan had a detailed journal with him at the times of the murder. So it is possible the descriptions/instructions on how to kill was from that. Maybe a ‘revelation’ of Ron’s or Dan’s he recorded in it, maybe notes taken from other texts? I have finished with the source, am hoping there will be a description, but I doubt it.
webbles Posted June 15, 2022 Author Posted June 15, 2022 2 hours ago, Calm said: I will share the source later, but Dan had a detailed journal with him at the times of the murder. So it is possible the descriptions/instructions on how to kill was from that. Maybe a ‘revelation’ of Ron’s or Dan’s he recorded in it, maybe notes taken from other texts? I have finished with the source, am hoping there will be a description, but I doubt it. The journal was part of the case. I've found a few references to it in the news articles. The items that I've seen talk about how Dan thought that when they get back to Utah, they'll have to come in a blaze of firepower to stop all the evildoers. I'd love to actually read the journal. I don't think Dan received any revelations until after the murders.
Calm Posted June 15, 2022 Posted June 15, 2022 (edited) 10 hours ago, webbles said: The journal was part of the case. I've found a few references to it in the news articles. The items that I've seen talk about how Dan thought that when they get back to Utah, they'll have to come in a blaze of firepower to stop all the evildoers. I'd love to actually read the journal. I don't think Dan received any revelations until after the murders. Yes, what I am hearing is Dan bought into his brother because he adored him and then saw him as a prophet. Otoh, for Ron the him as prophet stuff was about manipulation. After they were arrested, there was a falling out…my guess is partly at least Ron was blaming Dan for his problems because he seemed to do that as a habit, but also Ron was trying to avoid responsibility and Dan wholesale “I did it and I am proud I did, throw the book at me, it is meaningless anyway” sabotaged Ron’s effort to at least lighten his punishment or so it seems to me (haven’t read the book yet, maybe there are details in there that shift the picture of the news articles). Are you getting a different picture? The TV series presenting them as in competition appears to be way, way off in my view. It would make no sense for the construction worker to take over the chiropractor business instead of the trained chiropractor. As far as the plot line that somehow having the business means Watson, Sr. then appointed Dan as proxy head of the family when they went on a mission and did so because of Ron’s rebellion of his authority…honestly from what I read about Ron, he doesn’t appear to have cared. He says he stood up to his dad’s abuse when he got big enough. Nothing in the language suggests there was respect of the father as patriarch instead of rebellion. The brothers were very close in part because of the rebellion against the dad as patriarch in that the older ones protected the younger from beatings when big enough and before that, they would get together to console each other because they shared the abusive experience and they appeared to be devoted to their mother and she them, so family get togethers and the brothers studying together makes sense on that level, but I would really like to know if the tight Mormon family extended clan was really centered around the dad like is portrayed in the tv series rather than the psycho religious stuff coming because he passed on his antigovernment beliefs, which Dan then went whole hog on and then dragged his brothers into it. I vaguely remember some legal thing Watson, Sr was involved in, but I am thinking I am letting the tv series influence me too much. Did Watson, Sr. do more than just grumble about government. He obviously paid his taxes and fees. It was Dan and Mark? that caused trouble by not doing that. I wish Allen or someone else would open up more about family dynamics. Have you found anything that showed the family was run with the dad as head patriarch, dispensing favors and assignments…a religious leader vs the more typical power structure of a physically and emotionally abusive parent? Edited June 16, 2022 by Calm
webbles Posted June 16, 2022 Author Posted June 16, 2022 4 hours ago, Calm said: Yes, what I am hearing is Dan bought into his brother because he adored him and then saw him as a prophet. Otoh, for Ron the him as prophet stuff was about manipulation. After they were arrested, there was a falling out…my guess is partly at least Ron was blaming Dan for his problems because he seemed to do that as a habit, but also Ron was trying to avoid responsibility and Dan wholesale “I did it and I am proud I did, throw the book at me, it is meaningless anyway” sabotaged Ron’s effort to at least lighten his punishment or so it seems to me (haven’t read the book yet, maybe there are details in there that shift the picture of the news articles). Are you getting a different picture? I think Ron had an extremely high opinion of himself. According to the article series from 1985, Ron was basically treated as the patriarch of the family by his mother. It quotes a family member saying "Mom Lafferty really leaned on Ron. It was almost as if Ron were her husband and Watson didn't exist." So, when the various family relationships started to fall apart (mostly because of the Lafferty boys), Ron's job was to fix it all. And he fixated on Brenda being the main cause for the destruction. I think the family meeting at the hospital for Watson Sr is a good example of that. Ron would be angry with his mom for disobeying his dad's explicit order to not be taken to a hospital and then Brenda shows up. He focuses on her and calls her names and berates her horribly. The falling out didn't happen until basically December (they were arrested in August) and I'm not even sure it ever happened. Dan said that Ron attempted to kill/hurt him but I think that is made up by Dan because none of the early articles mention that all. Dan left the cell to do something and when he came back, he discovered Ron hanging and immediately called the authorities. (If Ron had hurt Dan, I don't see why the prison authorities would allow them to be together still) Ron was basically dead and quickly taken to a hospital. At that point, Dan and Ron were no longer a pair. Dan's trial occurred in January and Ron's trial occurred in April. I think Dan began to see Ron in a different light because of that hanging and began to separate himself from Ron (Dan now says that Ron was possessed by an evil spirit). I think Ron did have some mental impairment because of his hanging so I'm not sure if anything he has said or done after that event is of any use to determine what happened before. 4 hours ago, Calm said: The TV series presenting them as in competition appears to be way, way off in my view. It would make no sense for the construction worker to take over the chiropractor business instead of the trained chiropractor. As far as the plot line that somehow having the business means Watson, Sr. then appointed Dan as proxy head of the family when they went on a mission and did so because of Ron’s rebellion of his authority…honestly from what I read about Ron, he doesn’t appear to have cared. He says he stood up to his dad’s abuse when he got big enough. Nothing in the language suggests there was respect of the father as patriarch instead of rebellion. The brothers were very close in part because of the rebellion against the dad as patriarch in that the older ones protected the younger from beatings when big enough and before that, they would get together to console each other because they shared the abusive experience and they appeared to be devoted to their mother and she them, so family get togethers and the brothers studying together makes sense on that level, but I would really like to know if the tight Mormon family extended clan was really centered around the dad like is portrayed in the tv series rather than the psycho religious stuff coming because he passed on his antigovernment beliefs, which Dan then went whole hog on and then dragged his brothers into it. My best source for the family relationship is that 1985 article series. Claudine, for some reason, attached her love to her kids, and especially to her oldest child, Ron. She was abused by Watson Sr so that could be a factor. She treated Ron almost like the dad of the family and I bet that hurt Watson Sr. And then when Ron chose to not follow his footsteps as a chiropractor, he was hurt even more. So when Dan announced that he would be a chiropractor, Watson Sr saw him as his favorite son. He favored Dan while Claudine favored Ron. By this time, Ron had been married for 8 years. He had several children. He and Diana have lived in Utah Valley, Ogden Valley, and Colorado Springs. It probably hurt Ron a little to see his father favor his younger brother, but I don't think it was that bad since he had his own family and was quite successful in his own right. 4 hours ago, Calm said: I vaguely remember some legal thing Watson, Sr was involved in, but I am thinking I am keeping the tv series influence me too much. Did Watson, Sr. do more than just grumble about government. He obviously paid his taxes and fees. It was Dan and Mark? that caused trouble by not doing that. I've only found one evidence of a lawsuit by Watson Sr and I expect it is more related to just normal business practice. He was anti-hospitals and other "normal" health practices. He had diabetes and attempted to handle it using alternative medicines. He didn't want to go to the hospital on the day he died. So it is possible that he did have a bit of anti-government streak. Dan was the biggest offender in fighting taxes and such. But there is a lawsuit that Allen joined in on. I don't see any other lawsuits from the other brothers. The first instance of anti-government is sometime in the late 1970s. To make ends meet, Dan and Dolina would wake up early in the morning with her daughters and make sandwiches. They would then sell them. They had no food license or business license and when California heard about it, they were shut down. Dan was not happy about that since he didn't see any issue with what he was doing. The next instance of anti-government is in the end of 1981 when he attempted to refuse to pay the business taxes. It appears that he did pay it (though someone else could have as well) but he then ran for Utah County Sheriff in 1982 on a small government platform. 4 hours ago, Calm said: I wish Allen or someone else would open up more about family dynamics. Have you found anything that showed the family was run with the dad as head patriarch, dispensing favors and assignments…a religious leader vs the more typical power structure of a physically and emotionally abusive parent? I would love to hear that as well. I think the family had a power struggle between Watson Sr and Claudine. Watson Sr beat Claudine and she turned to her kids for comfort. I think it is a more typical power structure of a physically and emotionally abusive parent. 1
Calm Posted June 16, 2022 Posted June 16, 2022 1 hour ago, webbles said: hink Ron had an extremely high opinion of himself. According to the article series from 1985, Ron was basically treated as the patriarch of the family by his mother. It quotes a family member saying "Mom Lafferty really leaned on Ron. It was almost as if Ron were her husband and Watson didn't exist." That rather goes against the portrayal of “Ammon” (the dad in the series…but the character seems pretty fictitious apparently, so the change of name actually makes sense now). 1
Calm Posted June 16, 2022 Posted June 16, 2022 1 hour ago, webbles said: According to the article series from 1985, How did you get access to this?
webbles Posted June 16, 2022 Author Posted June 16, 2022 Just now, Calm said: How did you get access to this? I posted it in the other thread
Calm Posted June 16, 2022 Posted June 16, 2022 Just now, webbles said: I posted it in the other thread That’s right…I was thinking the scans were just front pages for some reason. I haven’t even tried to read them. Maybe tomorrow or Friday, got my second doctor’s appt this week which means I am not going to be moving much on Friday (me in a car is not a good thing, .I have no clue why since it is basically just a recliner on wheels, the only thing that makes sense is my body hallucinates it is in a bumper car and responses accordingly), so might as well do something useful.
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