Racism in 21st Century America

[Ragerunner]

This event may have comfortably removed billions in generational wealth from black families. It also reduced blacks ability to impact political and social issues in their community. These impacts continue to be felt today.

Race Massacre Survivors Call for Financial Investment Into Greenwood

“In the same way the U.S. financially helped rebuild Europe after World War II, the Justice for Greenwood Foundation wants the government to pump substantial money and programs into north Tulsa to restore the prosperity annihilated in the 1921 Race Massacre.”

https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/racemassacre/lawsuit-race-massacre-survivors-call-for-financial-investment-into-greenwood/article_d3fc0116-6268-11ec-a3ea-a3470606e19f.html

The True Cost of the Tulsa Race Massacre, 100 Years Later

“According to a 2001 report by the Oklahoma Commission to Study the Tulsa Race Riot of 1921, at least 1,256 homes were destroyed, alongside churches, schools, businesses, and hospitals. Greenwood residents would go on to file over $1.8 million dollars in damage claims; in today’s dollars, this would be over $27 million. All but one of these claims were denied; a white shop owner was given compensation for guns taken from his shop. The report acknowledges, however, that not all residents took out insurance or filed claims.

A 2018 article in the American Journal of Economics and Sociology estimates the direct financial impact of the 1921 massacre. “If 1,200 median priced houses in Tulsa were destroyed today, the loss would be around $150 million,” the researchers wrote. “The additional loss of other assets, including cash, personal belongings, and commercial property, might bring the total to over $200 million.”

https://www.brookings.edu/research/the-true-costs-of-the-tulsa-race-massacre-100-years-later/?amp

Edited March 26, 2022 by Ragerunner

[CV75]

54 minutes ago, Ragerunner said:

This event may have comfortably removed billions in generational wealth from black families. It also reduced blacks ability to impact political and social issues in their community. These impacts continue to be felt today.

Race Massacre Survivors Call for Financial Investment Into Greenwood

“In the same way the U.S. financially helped rebuild Europe after World War II, the Justice for Greenwood Foundation wants the government to pump substantial money and programs into north Tulsa to restore the prosperity annihilated in the 1921 Race Massacre.”

https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/racemassacre/lawsuit-race-massacre-survivors-call-for-financial-investment-into-greenwood/article_d3fc0116-6268-11ec-a3ea-a3470606e19f.html

The True Cost of the Tulsa Race Massacre, 100 Years Later

“According to a 2001 report by the Oklahoma Commission to Study the Tulsa Race Riot of 1921, at least 1,256 homes were destroyed, alongside churches, schools, businesses, and hospitals. Greenwood residents would go on to file over $1.8 million dollars in damage claims; in today’s dollars, this would be over $27 million. All but one of these claims were denied; a white shop owner was given compensation for guns taken from his shop. The report acknowledges, however, that not all residents took out insurance or filed claims.

A 2018 article in the American Journal of Economics and Sociology estimates the direct financial impact of the 1921 massacre. “If 1,200 median priced houses in Tulsa were destroyed today, the loss would be around $150 million,” the researchers wrote. “The additional loss of other assets, including cash, personal belongings, and commercial property, might bring the total to over $200 million.”

https://www.brookings.edu/research/the-true-costs-of-the-tulsa-race-massacre-100-years-later/?amp

I would suggest sticking to policy changes rather than restitution, which like apology does not broadly change hearts and minds racially-speaking. Far more often, attitudes follow policy more easily and quickly than they do litigated punishments. I think the litigant that says, "I'm not doing this for the money (and donate the settlement to charity), but so it never happens again to anyone else" is a greater force for change than the one who says "Now we're even," or "You can never pay enough."

[Calm]

3 hours ago, CV75 said:

does not broadly change hearts and minds racially-speaking.

So don’t bother giving damages to those who are victimized through the loss of family wealth because it won’t help others feel more friendly towards the victims?  I don’t get the reasoning. 
 

One family discovers in a museum a stolen family painting on display as a temporary donation. The original purchaser of the stolen art has died and their family currently views the art as theirs even though there is plenty of documentation showing the art originally belonged to the heirs of another person. What judge would rule in favor of not returning the art to the original family based on it wouldn’t help the thief’s family feel better towards them?

 

Property was stolen. Restitution isn’t charity. 

Edited March 26, 2022 by Calm

[CV75]

On 3/24/2022 at 6:23 PM, smac97 said:

I wonder if there is an additional factor: Zoning and land use laws as hindering construction of affordable housing.  See, e.g. here:

And here:

Hmm.  The impact on those of socioeconomically modest means is particularly potent because it has such a dampening effect on their quality of life, their ability to graduate from renting to owning, and so on.

Also, my understanding is that zoning laws had their origins in . . . racial segregation.  Oi.

More affordable housing, such as apartments, starter homes, duplexes/triplexes/fourplexes, mother-in-law apartments, etc., could have a very big impact on the housing market overall. 

Thanks,

-Smac

So, all zoning laws across the nation (I know the South gets picked on, but...) have impacted people of all races equally, and race has no impact on an individual's or group's access to affordable housing? Are there proportionately as many late-career Black people in starter homes as white people? More broadly speaking, race has nothing to do with one's socioeconomic status, whether by simple correlation or more complicated social dynamics (is it really the other way around?  )?

[CV75]

48 minutes ago, Calm said:

So don’t bother giving damages to those who are victimized through the loss of family wealth because it won’t help others feel more friendly towards the victims?  I don’t get the reasoning. 
 

One family discovers in a museum a stolen family painting on display. The original purchaser of the stolen art has died and their family views the art as theirs even though there is plenty of documentation showing the art legally belongs to the heirs of another person. What judge would rule favor of not returning the art to the original family based on it wouldn’t help the thief’s family feel better towards them?

 

Property was stolen. Restitution isn’t charity. 

In this instance, the law is the law, but in order of effectiveness in moving society along, those approaches or events that change hearts and minds are more powerful than policy (which usually changes attitudes, followed by the hearts and minds of the next generation), and policy is more powerful than punishment, which (like apology) really doesn't change anyone's mind, which is the root/gatekeeper of racism. Punitive policies (in this case, racial fairness based on racial punishment; the white people are paying) are even worse, since racial fairness demands the formal expansion of formerly incidental restitution of this kind -- cementing polarization.

I confess I'm still a bit focused on win-win solutions to redlining.

[smac97]

34 minutes ago, CV75 said:

So, all zoning laws across the nation (I know the South gets picked on, but...) have impacted people of all races equally, and race has no impact on an individual's or group's access to affordable housing?

No, not "all."  The origin of zoning laws way back in the day is not really in dispute.  I'm not saying that all zoning laws are "racist," or that they were intended to be applied in racist ways.  

Rather, I am saying that zoning laws, regardless of their origins, have the present effect of substantially hindering the construction of affordable housing.

34 minutes ago, CV75 said:

Are there proportionately as many late-career Black people in starter homes as white people? More broadly speaking, race has nothing to do with one's socioeconomic status, whether by simple correlation or more complicated social dynamics (is it really the other way around?  )?

Not sure what you are saying here.

Thanks,

-Smac

[Robert F. Smith]

4 hours ago, CV75 said:

Are you suggesting that race has no impact on an individual's or group's level of involvement or contribution to the economy, no matter how crummy or robust it is?

Racial monomania is a central part of the problem.  It becomes the central focus of the ideologically committed neo-Marxists whose only real desire is to hurt somebody.  There are real solutions, but most people don't want to hear them.

4 hours ago, CV75 said:

I understand the correlation between the post-WWII economy and the Civil Rights acts, but all the Black kids I played with on the Lower East Side were a lot poorer than I was, even 10+ years later in college (the malaise years of the 70s), when there were a lot fewer Black friends around, and then in the 80s when they were almost nowhere to be found in my "circle" (middle class) despite the recovery. And so forth; they never seemed to be able to catch up. Must be something more to racism than race-neutral or anti-racist economic and social policy.

If we lived in a race-neutral country, 40% of Harvard students would be Asian.  That's how many are qualified by Harvard's own entrance rules.  However, Harvard decided to accept only 20 - 25 % Asians.  That's called a quota.  They used to have a quota for Jews and Blacks at Harvard also.  Then there are the "legacy" students whose parents are Harvard alumni.  Just have to let them in.  The world of quotas, equity, and equal outcomes is a pretend world.  It serves the corporate elite.  They set the actual rules and they always get their way.  We Mormons had to leave the USA in 1847 just to get a little freedom.  The powers that be finally came out here and trampled us anyhow.  You might well ask, How did we manage to survive the extreme anti-Mormon bigotry and hate?  It sure wasn't easy.

[Calm]

10 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

f we lived in a race-neutral country, 40% of Harvard students would be Asian.  That's how many are qualified by Harvard's own entrance rules. 

That is only if you take as the starting point of neutrality as entry into Harvard.  If you started treating neutrally by race from before a child was born, my guess is that there would be more proportional to population percentages….though even if race neutral there would likely be cultural differences that might impact how much support each child gets from home and their community to strive for good grades, etc.

Edited March 26, 2022 by Calm

[Robert F. Smith]

5 hours ago, pogi said:

I don't think anyone is asking people to ignore, or stop trying to improve our overall economy and focus only on racist issues. 

Unfortunately, that is exactly what we have taking place in our state legislatures and Congress.  The American people are penny wise and pound foolish.

5 hours ago, pogi said:

It feels like criticizing someone for their efforts in picking up liter in a national park, or for focusing their efforts on clean water issues, because that will do nothing to stop global warming (the ship we are all sinking on). 

I was once on an environmental task force in a city, an unpaid volunteer thing.  One member of our task force thought that his riding his bike instead of driving was helping society.  I did not say anything in response, but he clearly failed to recognize that such an effort is meaningless unless it is done by huge numbers of people (as in Amsterdam, for example, where everyone rides bikes).  We need economies of scale.

5 hours ago, pogi said:

I think we all have different skill sets and interests and can lift and make an impact where we stand.  I don't see anything wrong with that. 

Sounds like the Spirit of Christ at work:  When I was younger and could still do it, I loved getting together with the elders and sisters to help someone move or refurbish a house or apartment or do some yard work.  Neighborliness is nice, of course.  I hope you are not confusing that with making major changes in social and economic policy in society.  Because that is a far different matter.

5 hours ago, pogi said:

If the ship can be saved, I think there is enough interest and talent to save it.  Rearranging the deck chairs now in preparation for a brighter future is a good thing.   If it is too late, might as well rearrange the deck chairs to allow for black people to have tea with us as we sink to our demise.   Either way, rearranging the deckchairs gives some people who have no ability or skills to save the ship a purpose as they improve their condition where they stand, and while they still can stand...

Yep.  I do admire the spirit of the Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto.  Since they knew they were going to be killed anyway, they decided to go out fighting -- instead of quietly just getting into the cattle cars to Auschwitz.  They most emphatically did not rearrange the deck chairs on a sinking ship.  Instead they did all they could to kill Nazis.

[Robert F. Smith]

6 hours ago, Calm said:

No, I didn’t miss your main point, I am just wondering if it was really as inclusive as you are presenting it (“anyone”) or if you intend to present it that way.

When you say anyone, are you including those who were living near or below the poverty level at the time? (Which if I read the census report correctly was 50% of nonwhite families and 15% of white families in 1959)

https://www2.census.gov/library/publications/1968/demographics/p60-54.pdf

Thanks for the data.  In 1959 the chances that a person would be living in poverty was three times as great for a non-white than for a white person (page 3).  The percent of poor families headed by a woman increased, while at the same time poor families headed by a man decreased (p. 4).  In other words, the absence of a male earner was key in poor families.  The poverty rate among families headed by a non-white male of working age was three times the rate for comparable families headed by a white male (p. 2).  Of course, these data are skewed by region -- the deep south had the highest poverty rate, and most of the poor families headed by males worked as laborers, farmers, and service workers.  In addition, not everyone is looking at the stats quite the same (https://www.cato.org/blog/us-poverty-has-plunged😞

 

[Robert F. Smith]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

That is only if you take as the starting point of neutrality as entry into Harvard.  If you started treating neutrally by race from before a child was born, my guess is that there would be more proportional to population percentages….though even if race neutral there would likely be cultural differences that might impact how much support each child gets from home and their community to strive for good grades, etc.

Of course, and we know that Asian culture pushes hard to achieve, both here and in Asia itself.  I prefer equality of opportunity in a meritocracy.

[Calm]

19 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

  I prefer equality of opportunity in a meritocracy.

And how do you achieve this when not everyone starts out with equal opportunities?  Do you just ignore that fact and assume the enough of the talented will rise above their impoverished circumstances or do you instigate programs that try to balance out lack of early support with extra support later on?

Edited March 26, 2022 by Calm

[Robert F. Smith]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

And how do you achieve this when not everyone starts out with equal opportunities?  Do you just ignore that fact and assume the enough of the talented will rise above their impoverished circumstances or do you instigate programs that try to balance out lack of early support with extra support later on?

Take care of first things first.  This country didn't start out with K thru 12.  Educational opportunity was sparse at best.  The notion of populism is that everyone is included.  You do the best you can with what you've got.  The corporate elite often miss what enlightened self-interest would bring them.  Their greed and avarice blind them and make them cynical.  At least in Germany and Japan we were able to help them rebuild after we destroyed them.  They had to be willing to make that effort.  Vengeance-seekers almost derailed our effort in Germany, but a powerful Mormon voice saved the day (Dale Clark of Farmington, Utah, who ran a unit of our military govt of Germany), and the Marshall Plan worked.  There are no easy answers, but the LDS Church has always followed the principal that we take bad people and make them good, and good people and make them better, teach a man how to fish and you feed him for life.  We have a system that works.  No pretending.

[Robert F. Smith]

6 hours ago, Ragerunner said:

This event may have comfortably removed billions in generational wealth from black families. It also reduced blacks ability to impact political and social issues in their community. These impacts continue to be felt today........................

All true enough, but the real tragedy is that there were many other destructive riots in America, not even counting the numerous lynchings and rapes that went on for several centuries of slavery and Jim Crow.  Aside from buying and selling fellow human beings. Murder and removals of American indians and of Chinese communities in America (horrible anti-Chinese riots), not even counting the grabbing of Japanese property on our West Coast and the incarceration of them during WW II.  And the Mormons mobbed, and murdered, and their property stolen in Missouri and Illinois never got it back.

Not counting our invasions of many countries in this hemisphere:  We made Central America safe for United Fruit and Chiquita Banana by killing and funding the killing of tens of thousands of innocent men, women, and children.  We sponsored the assassination of the President of Chile, and a murderous dictator was put in his place.  We stole 1/3 of Mexico in 1847, and did not even keep the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo.  In fact we made it a practice to violate every treaty and agreement we made with the Indian tribes, and we still do it today.  We likewise failed to keep our agreements with those who served us in Vietham and Afghanistan, leaving them to be murdered and imprisoned.  Half the homeless in our largest cities are veterans of our stupid wars of choice.  None of those wars were necessary.

Reparations?  Where do we start?  Who is going to vote for it?

[carbon dioxide]

On 3/25/2022 at 9:00 AM, Robert F. Smith said:

There will always be some racism in Western society, but we overestimate it at our peril.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             

There is racism everywhere at one degree or another.   I believe a white guy living in Nigeria, Japan, China, or India would experience some sort of racism at some point.  People are tribal in nature and when someone outside the tribe comes in their presence, they pay attention more and may treat them differently.  White people or the west did not invent or bring racism into existence the common narrative we seem to get is that racism is all the fault of white people.

Edited March 26, 2022 by carbon dioxide

[smac97]

15 hours ago, Calm said:

So don’t bother giving damages to those who are victimized through the loss of family wealth because it won’t help others feel more friendly towards the victims?  I don’t get the reasoning. 

I think the problem here is three-fold. 

First, the idea that injuries from decades and generations ago can or ought to be legally recompensed is substantively untenable because there are no limiting principles.  Who pays?  For what injuries?  To whom?  Going how far back?  

Second, to the extent there is a limiting principle, it appears to be utterly arbitrary and preferential based on . . . race.

Third, it is inimical to the basic notions of justice to allocate liability to X for Y's misconduct, where the basis for X's liability is that Y is a "race" category.

Thanks,

-Smac

[CV75]

15 hours ago, smac97 said:

No, not "all."  The origin of zoning laws way back in the day is not really in dispute.  I'm not saying that all zoning laws are "racist," or that they were intended to be applied in racist ways.  

Rather, I am saying that zoning laws, regardless of their origins, have the present effect of substantially hindering the construction of affordable housing.

Not sure what you are saying here.

Thanks,

-Smac

I am trying to attend to the question as to whether race has or hasn’t an impact on an any individual's or group's access to affordable housing, irrespective of how that may be impacted by zoning laws (and granted, by other factors).

One way of asking that is whether there are proportionately as many late-career Black people in starter homes as white people; or, broadly speaking, whether race has anything to do with one's socioeconomic status, whether these relationships are simple correlations or causes/effects involving more complicated social dynamics.

Edited March 26, 2022 by CV75

[CV75]

14 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Racial monomania is a central part of the problem.  It becomes the central focus of the ideologically committed neo-Marxists whose only real desire is to hurt somebody.  There are real solutions, but most people don't want to hear them.

If we lived in a race-neutral country, 40% of Harvard students would be Asian.  That's how many are qualified by Harvard's own entrance rules.  However, Harvard decided to accept only 20 - 25 % Asians.  That's called a quota.  They used to have a quota for Jews and Blacks at Harvard also.  Then there are the "legacy" students whose parents are Harvard alumni.  Just have to let them in.  The world of quotas, equity, and equal outcomes is a pretend world.  It serves the corporate elite.  They set the actual rules and they always get their way.  We Mormons had to leave the USA in 1847 just to get a little freedom.  The powers that be finally came out here and trampled us anyhow.  You might well ask, How did we manage to survive the extreme anti-Mormon bigotry and hate?  It sure wasn't easy.

But, in the spirit of my question to smac, anyone's monomania on the subject would have nothing to do with whether race has or hasn’t an impact on an individual's or group's level of involvement or contribution to the economy, no matter how crummy or robust the economy is. Likewise, a preference to focus on the economy over racial matters still allows analysis of racially relevant components of the economy, which I believe the OP invites us to consider.

I understand the idea that the solution to our economic problems is to eradicate a pretend world run by the corporate elite and secret combinations by building Zion. That, I think would involve lessons learned by the saints in surviving religious bigotry and building a strong state economy over a few generations. You pointed out that the saints had a terrible disadvantage in their local economies because of their religion. My question is less about religious bigotry (our religion teaches charity: problem solved) and more about whether race likewise has been shown to have an impact, as religion does, on individual and group economic freedom (local, state, national).

[smac97]

9 minutes ago, CV75 said:

I am trying to attend to the question as to whether race has or hasn’t an impact on an any individual's or group's access to affordable housing, irrespective of how that may be impacted by zoning laws (and granted, by other factors).

"Access to affordable housing" isn't really about racial categories, but rather economic ones.  There are plenty of poor people of every racial category who lack "access to affordable housing."

9 minutes ago, CV75 said:

One way of asking that is whether there are proportionately as many late-career Black people in starter homes as white people; or, broadly speaking, whether race has anything to do with one's socioeconomic status, whether these relationships are simple correlations or causes/effects involving more complicated social dynamics.

I thought this video was interesting in terms of addressing racial disparities as pertaining to CRT:

A transcript:

Quote

Asian Americans are a “troublesome minority” for the critical narrative of racial theory because their community succeeds purely on the basis of merit, the author of a new book on Fox News argued on Wednesday.

“Critical Race Theory asserts that the world and America are divided into a racial caste system, whites above, blacks below,” Kenny Xu, author of “An Inconvenient Minority: The Attack on Asian American Excellence and the Fight for Meritocracy, ”said on“ America Reports ”. “But they have no idea what to do with Asian Americans because Asian Americans are a minority that has been discriminated against in this country, and yet they do and do. , I think, disturbs the critical account of racial theory today, and that’s why I wrote this book. “

Xu attributed the Asian-American success to “culture” because they tend to “study twice as hard,” are typically raised in two-parent family structures, and place “high value on education.”

“It’s the love of hard work and meritocracy, and it’s at stake with Critical Race Theory because Critical Race Theory believes merit is racist,” Xu said. “So if policies like Harvard’s discrimination against Asian Americans are allowed, guess who loses? It’s the Asian Americans who are working hard to get their place.”

According to statistics from the Pew Research Center on the economic situation of Asian Americans, they behave “well” compared to the general American population. However, he further explained that it “varies considerably among groups of Asian descent.. ”

“In 2019, the median annual income for Asian-headed households was $ 85,800, compared to $ 61,800 for all US households. Foreign-born Asian households earned slightly more than those headed by US-born Asians ($ 88,000 versus $ 85,000), ”according to the Pew Research Center.

“In total, 12 groups of Asian origin had median household incomes higher than the median of all Americans.”
...
After analyzing 90,000 data on admissions to Harvard, Xu learned that over the past 30 years, admissions of Asian Americans have been kept at a “cap” of “18 to 15 percent” of the population. student body. He said Harvard’s own estimate is that if Asians weren’t discriminated against, they would make up “43 percent” of the student body.

“People say, well, is that too many Asians? I say I’m outraged by this statement,” Xu said.

“I am outraged that Asians are all the same kind of person, the same kind of face with no personality, we have to look beyond race in this country and I wrote this book, hopefully, to heal it. ‘America and bring Americans together in the service of meritocracy. “

Thanks,

-Smac

[Robert F. Smith]

24 minutes ago, CV75 said:

But, in the spirit of my question to smac, anyone's monomania on the subject would have nothing to do with whether race has or hasn’t an impact on an individual's or group's level of involvement or contribution to the economy, no matter how crummy or robust the economy is. Likewise, a preference to focus on the economy over racial matters still allows analysis of racially relevant components of the economy, which I believe the OP invites us to consider.

I understand the idea that the solution to our economic problems is to eradicate a pretend world run by the corporate elite and secret combinations by building Zion. That, I think would involve lessons learned by the saints in surviving religious bigotry and building a strong state economy over a few generations. You pointed out that the saints had a terrible disadvantage in their local economies because of their religion. My question is less about religious bigotry (our religion teaches charity: problem solved) and more about whether race likewise has been shown to have an impact, as religion does, on individual and group economic freedom (local, state, national).

Of course there are issues, a variety of them, and they need to be dealt with, but we must not take our eye off the prize:  I am reminded of the current dissolution of the Methodist Church, a once great religious institution.  In all the uproar, they forgot the central message of the Gospel.  They got woke and went broke.

[Robert F. Smith]

1 hour ago, carbon dioxide said:

There is racism everywhere at one degree or another.   I believe a white guy living in Nigeria, Japan, China, or India would experience some sort of racism at some point.  People are tribal in nature and when someone outside the tribe comes in their presence, they pay attention more and may treat them differently.  White people or the west did not invent or bring racism into existence the common narrative we seem to get is that racism is all the fault of white people.

Correct.  Western foreigners inside China are held in deep contempt by ordinary people there.  Westerners who understand Chinese hear them constantly deriding them and cussing about them in Chinese.  There is intense hatred and has been for a long time.  The sort of gracious restraint we expect here in the USA from polite society is simply absent in the Chinese mainland.

[BlueDreams]

10 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

not even counting the grabbing of Japanese property on our West Coast and the incarceration of them during WW II

Just an fyi. The Japanese got reparations and a formal apology in 1988. 
 

just sayin 

with luv, 

BD

[Robert F. Smith]

2 minutes ago, BlueDreams said:

Just an fyi. The Japanese got reparations and a formal apology in 1988. 
 

just sayin 

with luv, 

BD

Yes, and one of my close friends was a recipient of one of those checks -- a pittance for all they had lost, homes, businesses, etc.  And so long after the fact, by about 50 years.  I knew a man who was the primary minister to those Japanese internees, a Methodist minister who spoke fluent Japanese (Rev Frank Herron Smith "The White Jap"), and a huge number of Japanese came to his funeral in 1965 in Berkeley, California.  Now there was a man who lived the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

[CV75]

1 hour ago, smac97 said:

"Access to affordable housing" isn't really about racial categories, but rather economic ones.  There are plenty of poor people of every racial category who lack "access to affordable housing."

I thought this video was interesting in terms of addressing racial disparities as pertaining to CRT:

The economic and racial categories of individuals and groups affect each other, and in turn affect issues such as access to affordable housing. "Access" is the operative word, which has economic and racial components (as the religious component brought up with the experience of the saints forced West). "Affordable" is economic. "Housing" in the sense of "neighborhoods" also has racial and economic components.

It may simplify the analysis to refuse one category or the other from consideration, but that also stymies the discussion.

[CV75]

1 hour ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Of course there are issues, a variety of them, and they need to be dealt with, but we must not take our eye off the prize:  I am reminded of the current dissolution of the Methodist Church, a once great religious institution.  In all the uproar, they forgot the central message of the Gospel.  They got woke and went broke.

How do we get woke and go broke by addressing the racial component of appraisal issues? Cannot a saint engage in this endeavor without taking their eye off Zion?