JLHPROF Posted January 24, 2022 Posted January 24, 2022 That depends who you ask and which sources you trust. 1
Fether Posted January 24, 2022 Posted January 24, 2022 (edited) 39 minutes ago, JLHPROF said: That depends who you ask and which sources you trust. Any source and I trust everyone. What do people report him saying? Do you know of any sources? This is a great question Edited January 24, 2022 by Fether
JLHPROF Posted January 24, 2022 Posted January 24, 2022 4 minutes ago, Fether said: Any source and I trust everyone. What do people report him saying? Do you know of any sources? This is a great question Well the Church sources say Brigham and the Apostolic succession. Those who disagreed with the Apostles such as Joseph's family have sources that say Joseph Smith III. The Strangites have statements naming James Strang. Etc, etc...
Fether Posted January 24, 2022 Posted January 24, 2022 7 hours ago, JLHPROF said: Well the Church sources say Brigham and the Apostolic succession. Those who disagreed with the Apostles such as Joseph's family have sources that say Joseph Smith III. The Strangites have statements naming James Strang. Etc, etc... Your talks about the succession crisis. The question talks specifically about there being future prophets. To Joseph Smith Specifically say his successor would be a Prophet?
JLHPROF Posted January 24, 2022 Posted January 24, 2022 1 hour ago, Fether said: Your talks about the succession crisis. The question talks specifically about there being future prophets. To Joseph Smith Specifically say his successor would be a Prophet? Joseph taught everyone with a testimony of Christ should be a prophet. I think it would be logical to conclude that should include his successors. 1
Fether Posted January 24, 2022 Posted January 24, 2022 2 hours ago, JLHPROF said: Joseph taught everyone with a testimony of Christ should be a prophet. I think it would be logical to conclude that should include his successors. Source?
Bernard Gui Posted January 24, 2022 Posted January 24, 2022 (edited) “I am a living witness to the testimony that [Joseph Smith] gave to the Twelve Apostles when all of us received our endowments from under his hands. I remember the last speech that he ever gave us before his death. It was before we started upon our mission to the East. He stood upon his feet some three hours. The room was filled as with consuming fire, his face was as clear as amber, and he was clothed upon by the power of God. He laid before us our duty. He laid before us the fullness of this great work of God; and in his remarks to us he said: ‘I have had sealed upon my head every key, every power, every principle of life and salvation that God has ever given to any man who ever lived upon the face of the earth. And these principles and this Priesthood and power belong to this great and last dispensation which the God of Heaven has set His hand to establish in the earth. Now,’ said he addressing the Twelve, ‘I have sealed upon your heads every key, every power, and every principle which the Lord has sealed upon my head.’ … “After addressing us in this manner he said: ‘I tell you, the burden of this kingdom now rests upon your shoulders; you have got to bear it off in all the world’” (Deseret Weekly, Mar. 19, 1892, 406; see also Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Wilford Woodruff [2004], xxxii). See also https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/teachings-of-the-living-prophets-student-manual-2016/chapter-3?lang=eng Edited January 24, 2022 by Bernard Gui 3
JLHPROF Posted January 24, 2022 Posted January 24, 2022 4 hours ago, Fether said: Source? The Prophet's Answer to Sundry Questions Fifth--"Do you believe Joseph Smith, Jun., to be a Prophet?" Yes, and every other man who has the testimony of Jesus. For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.--Revelation, 19:10th verse. Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith pg 119 1
Fether Posted January 24, 2022 Posted January 24, 2022 33 minutes ago, JLHPROF said: The Prophet's Answer to Sundry Questions Fifth--"Do you believe Joseph Smith, Jun., to be a Prophet?" Yes, and every other man who has the testimony of Jesus. For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.--Revelation, 19:10th verse. Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith pg 119 So he is saying everyone who has a testimony of Christ is a prophet?
smac97 Posted January 24, 2022 Posted January 24, 2022 1 hour ago, Fether said: So he is saying everyone who has a testimony of Christ is a prophet? Yes. But "prophet" is not a priesthood office. It is instead part of the ecclesiastical title "Prophet, Seer and Revelator," which applies to the members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. The president of the church is the presiding high priest in the Church. From D&C 107: Quote 64 Then comes the High Priesthood, which is the greatest of all. 65 Wherefore, it must needs be that one be appointed of the High Priesthood to preside over the priesthood, and he shall be called President of the High Priesthood of the Church; 66 Or, in other words, the Presiding High Priest over the High Priesthood of the Church. ... 91 And again, the duty of the President of the office of the High Priesthood is to preside over the whole church, and to be like unto Moses— 92 Behold, here is wisdom; yea, to be a seer, a revelator, a translator, and a prophet, having all the gifts of God which he bestows upon the head of the church. The person we generally reference as "the prophet" is the presiding high priest. From The Encyclopedia of Mormonism: Quote Only the President of the Church, by right of his ordination to this office, is designated the presiding high priest of the whole Church (D&C 107:91). His calling includes being "President of the High Priesthood of the Church; or, in other words, the Presiding High Priest over the High Priesthood of the Church" (D&C 107:65-66). In 1832 the Prophet Joseph Smith was sustained as President of the High Priesthood and ordained to that office by Sidney Rigdon. An 1835 revelation further directed that a First Presidency of three men be chosen, "appointed and ordained to that office, and upheld by the confidence, faith, and prayer of the church" (D&C 107:22). The President's counselors may preside in his absence, and are also called presiding high priests (D&C 107:22), but do not function independently in this role. Thanks, -Smac 2
James 1 5 Posted January 24, 2022 Posted January 24, 2022 1 hour ago, Fether said: So he is saying everyone who has a testimony of Christ is a prophet? John the Revelator, who wrote the book of Revelation in the Bible, is the one who said the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. Joseph Smith only repeated what John had said, which had been received by the spirit of prophecy,
Fether Posted January 24, 2022 Posted January 24, 2022 42 minutes ago, smac97 said: Yes. But "prophet" is not a priesthood office. It is instead part of the ecclesiastical title "Prophet, Seer and Revelator," which applies to the members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. The president of the church is the presiding high priest in the Church. From D&C 107: The person we generally reference as "the prophet" is the presiding high priest. From The Encyclopedia of Mormonism: Thanks, -Smac Could someone be president without being Prophet?
Tacenda Posted January 24, 2022 Posted January 24, 2022 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Fether said: Could someone be president without being Prophet? I'm thinking that has been the case with a few of them. Edited January 24, 2022 by Tacenda
JLHPROF Posted January 24, 2022 Posted January 24, 2022 2 hours ago, Fether said: So he is saying everyone who has a testimony of Christ is a prophet? Sounds like. Our prophet is ordained as an Apostle. Anyone that prophesies is called a prophet but the priesthood office is Apostle and the President is the Senior Apostle.
smac97 Posted January 24, 2022 Posted January 24, 2022 1 minute ago, Fether said: Could someone be president without being Prophet? Well, again, "prophet" is not a priesthood office. From the EOM: Quote The word "prophet" comes from the Greek prophetes, which means "inspired teacher." Although neither the Greek term nor its Hebrew equivalent, nabi, initially required the function of foretelling (Smith, p. 3), all prophecy looks to the future. Since the Lord has chosen some of his servants to be foretellers-to disclose, sometimes in specific terms, momentous events that are to occur-the predictive element often overshadows other implications of the word in the minds of some (see Revelation; Jesus Christ: Prophecies About Jesus Christ). But the gift of prophecy is not restricted to those whose words have been recorded in scripture. By scriptural definition, a prophet is anyone who has a testimony of Jesus Christ and is moved by the Holy Ghost (Rev. 19:10; cf. TPJS, pp. 119, 160). So would the Lord allow there there to be put in place a presiding high priest who did not have a testimony of Jesus Christ? I don't think so. Quote Moses, voicing his approval of two men who had prophesied, exclaimed, "Would God that all the Lord's people were prophets, and that the Lord would put his spirit upon them!" (Num. 11:26-29). Schools of prophets and "sons" (followers) of prophets, some false and some true, existed in large numbers in Old Testament times. In modern times, speaking of Brigham Young, Elder Wilford Woodruff said, "He is a prophet, I am a prophet, you are, and anybody is a prophet who has the testimony of Jesus Christ, for that is the spirit of prophecy" (JD 13:165; see Spirit of Prophecy). It follows that this spirit does not operate in every utterance of its possessor. The Prophet Joseph Smith explained that "a prophet {is} a prophet only when he {is} acting as such" (HC 5:265). Thanks, -Smac
JLHPROF Posted January 24, 2022 Posted January 24, 2022 5 minutes ago, Fether said: Could someone be president without being Prophet? Yes and no. Someone could be President and never utter a prophecy. Someone couldn't be President without the responsibility of receiving revelation to direct the Church. 1 minute ago, Tacenda said: I'm thinking that has been the case with a few of them. But that's my tainted attitude. Is it necessary to be uttering futuristic prophecies to be the one receiving revelation and instruction?
Fether Posted January 24, 2022 Posted January 24, 2022 2 minutes ago, smac97 said: Well, again, "prophet" is not a priesthood office. From the EOM: So would the Lord allow there there to be put in place a presiding high priest who did not have a testimony of Jesus Christ? I don't think so. Thanks, -Smac I’m talking about the title of “the Prophet”. There seems to be a distinction between President, Prophet, and prophet.
smac97 Posted January 24, 2022 Posted January 24, 2022 9 minutes ago, Fether said: I’m talking about the title of “the Prophet”. Well, that's either a reference to Joseph Smith or the current presiding high priest. As to the former, this is intended to be an expression of honor and veneration to his calling as the head of this dispensation, "the prophet" of the Restoration. From the EOM: Quote Joseph Smith, Jr. (1805-1844), often referred to as the Prophet Joseph Smith, was the founding prophet of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Latter-day Saints call him "the Prophet" because, in the tradition of Old and New Testament prophets, he depended on revelation from God for his teachings, not on his own learning. We likewise refer to the current presiding high priest as "the prophet" (lower case, though) as an honorific, as a token of veneration and respect. 9 minutes ago, Fether said: There seems to be a distinction between President, Prophet, and prophet. "Prophet" (upper case) is typically a reference to Joseph Smith, who was also the presiding high priest ("President"). A reference to "the prophet" (lower case, with a definite article) is usually a reference to the current presiding high priest (again, the "President"). "President" in this context usually refers to the presiding high priest (currently Russell M. Nelson) along with his counselors. Thanks, -Smac 3
JLHPROF Posted January 24, 2022 Posted January 24, 2022 12 minutes ago, Fether said: I’m talking about the title of “the Prophet”. There seems to be a distinction between President, Prophet, and prophet. "the Prophet" is code for "the person who receives revelation to direct the Church". This is the President of the Church who has the priesthood office of Apostle and is generally senior by ordination. However anyone can be a prophet. 3
Alexi Nakatology Posted January 27, 2022 Author Posted January 27, 2022 On 1/24/2022 at 6:26 PM, JLHPROF said: "the Prophet" is code for "the person who receives revelation to direct the Church". This is the President of the Church who has the priesthood office of Apostle and is generally senior by ordination. However anyone can be a prophet. So I guess my question then is “what did Joseph Smith say about everybody?”
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