3DOP Posted January 1, 2022 Posted January 1, 2022 On 12/12/2021 at 5:18 PM, Robert F. Smith said: I first learned English grammar in Latin class in High School. Until then, it was all Greek to me. Heh. Robert...my wife's Latin is not better than mine, at least for vocabulary and pronunciation. But her English is impeccable in my opinion. She credits any sound English to four years of Latin in high school. I am not sure I understand why that would be, but I believe her.
Robert F. Smith Posted January 1, 2022 Posted January 1, 2022 1 hour ago, 3DOP said: Heh. Robert...my wife's Latin is not better than mine, at least for vocabulary and pronunciation. But her English is impeccable in my opinion. She credits any sound English to four years of Latin in high school. I am not sure I understand why that would be, but I believe her. I only had two years of HS Latin, but that had two advantages: I learned key Latin words and roots which are still used in English, and I learned all the Latin grammatical terms which had made no sense to me in English class -- such as plusquam perfectum which is the English pluperfect. By the way, Felicem Annum Novum !! 1
mfbukowski Posted January 1, 2022 Posted January 1, 2022 On 12/12/2021 at 3:18 PM, Robert F. Smith said: I first learned English grammar in Latin class in High School. Until then, it was all Greek to me. Seriously! I don't know how people actually spoke grammatical Latin "correctly". I could not write a Latin sentence without diagramming it first. But boy did I learn grammar! Supposedly it is even today spoken at official Catholic meetings between cardinals etc. (?) But it is easy to see how the vulgate evolved. 1
mfbukowski Posted January 2, 2022 Posted January 2, 2022 (edited) 7 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said: Edited January 2, 2022 by mfbukowski Error
mfbukowski Posted January 2, 2022 Posted January 2, 2022 (edited) 9 hours ago, 3DOP said: Heh. Robert...my wife's Latin is not better than mine, at least for vocabulary and pronunciation. But her English is impeccable in my opinion. She credits any sound English to four years of Latin in high school. I am not sure I understand why that would be, but I believe her. It's because words have different endings depending on how they are used in the sentence according to case, number and gender. Suppose "He gave her a ring" So you need to know all the possible endings for giving vs receiving of the verb, different also if the giver is a man and the receiver is a woman, which would be different for a woman giving it to a man. So in that simple sentence you would need all the correct endings for every word depending on the context of every word. And the more complicated the sentence the harder it gets. The subject endings are different than the object endings, etc AND THE SUBJUNCTIVE PLUPERFECT. (Is there such a thing?) https://youtu.be/sjANLOJXjWQ Got that? Edited January 2, 2022 by mfbukowski 1
Calm Posted January 2, 2022 Posted January 2, 2022 5 hours ago, mfbukowski said: Seriously! I don't know how people actually spoke grammatical Latin "correctly". I could not write a Latin sentence without diagramming it first. But boy did I learn grammar! Supposedly it is even today spoken at official Catholic meetings between cardinals etc. (?) But it is easy to see how the vulgate evolved. It feels similar to Chinese writing which was done fully properly by a small percentage of the population, but I don’t know enough about either to really compare. Was it intended to be an elite language, one that was cultivated to quickly show who had the time to study it (those not working their butts off to survive) and those who didn’t (those with not much butt left) or did it just end up that way unintentionally? Or is it actually easier than it looks?
mfbukowski Posted January 2, 2022 Posted January 2, 2022 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Calm said: It feels similar to Chinese writing which was done fully properly by a small percentage of the population, but I don’t know enough about either to really compare. Was it intended to be an elite language, one that was cultivated to quickly show who had the time to study it (those not working their butts off to survive) and those who didn’t (those with not much butt left) or did it just end up that way unintentionally? Or is it actually easier than it looks? Well I am sure if you were brought up in it, it would easy. But I didn't have anyone in my advanced classes of kids who were supposedly adept at languages who found it "easy" But I can imagine that vast swaths of the population got by with bad grammar, just as we do in our culture. And then there was the vulgate, which I think most folks spoke. But there's a reason Latin became Italian, French, Italian, Spanish, and Roumainian.! Before the vulgate became fully acceptable it had been evolving from Old Latin for 400 years. Ain't 'at cool? Edited January 2, 2022 by mfbukowski 1
Calm Posted January 2, 2022 Posted January 2, 2022 39 minutes ago, mfbukowski said: Well I am sure if you were brought up in it, it would easy. I have read plenty of Chinese complaining about Chinese writing. Koreans invented their own writing system (and a dang cool one) to get away from it. The original Chinese typewriter was a terrifying machine to behold. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_typewriter 1
3DOP Posted January 3, 2022 Posted January 3, 2022 On 1/1/2022 at 10:58 AM, Robert F. Smith said: I only had two years of HS Latin, but that had two advantages: I learned key Latin words and roots which are still used in English, and I learned all the Latin grammatical terms which had made no sense to me in English class -- such as plusquam perfectum which is the English pluperfect. By the way, Felicem Annum Novum !! Happy New Year Robert. I cannot say if that was pluperfect Latin on your part, but I got your drift! 1
mfbukowski Posted January 3, 2022 Posted January 3, 2022 10 minutes ago, 3DOP said: Happy New Year Robert. I cannot say if that was pluperfect Latin on your part, but I got your drift! It was as perfect as plu can get! 😳
nuclearfuels Posted January 3, 2022 Author Posted January 3, 2022 On 12/13/2021 at 7:10 AM, Bill “Papa” Lee said: Just as times of old, Priests have always made sacrifices upon the altar. The sacrifice of Jesus Christ, is now the Sacrament, and now the Priests, or those who hold the greater Priesthood, do for us, what the Priests of old.Their role is to call upon God, in the name of Jesus Christ to bless his “body and blood”, or “bread and water”. yes. so they represent God the Father / Elohim?
nuclearfuels Posted January 3, 2022 Author Posted January 3, 2022 On 12/12/2021 at 6:33 PM, Robert F. Smith said: In each case, it is a memorial thank you, Robert. Would it be a stretch to claim the priests represent God the Father?
Cordelia Posted January 3, 2022 Posted January 3, 2022 The problem I see with that idea is that the sacrament prayers are directed to Heavenly Father. 2
Robert F. Smith Posted January 3, 2022 Posted January 3, 2022 2 hours ago, nuclearfuels said: .............. Would it be a stretch to claim the priests represent God the Father? Not at all. One of the standard definitions for any authorized holder of the priesthood of God is, after all, "The priesthood is the power and authority of God" (https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics/priest?lang=eng ). 2
Bill “Papa” Lee Posted January 4, 2022 Posted January 4, 2022 8 hours ago, nuclearfuels said: yes. so they represent God the Father / Elohim? They represent the Priests of old, the only individuals (at that moment) authorized (by the Levitical Priesthood of old) to bless the Sacrifice (or sanctify the offering which is upon the Altar). The blessings, of the Sacrifice, as performed by these Priests once called “High Priests”, of Israel, long, long ago. Just as long ago, this Sacrifice upon the Altar, once blessed, was able to atone for the sins of the individual, the congregation, or even the Nation of Israel, as it can, or does today. All things “in their proper order”, by those ordained today, from Adam’s day, down unto, our present day. Because of this, we should each approach (weekly) our Sacrament Meetings, as if this weekly act, was just as if we were in the Garden of Eden, or for the first time, for the “first”, last supper, (or our final Sacrament) in the upper room, with Jesus Christ attending himself. Even if we did not fully understand what it meant, nor understand at all; Still. Just as with Adam, our ancient Father, and our first Mother, who knew not what they did, “save the Lord had commanded them”. So should we,”go and do likewise”, each Sunday, until we find the “firm foundation”, and the “Rock”, upon which we can build! Anyway, “Choose ye this day, whom you will serve, as for me and myself, we will serve the Lord”. From the Book of Joshua. Hope this helps, too tired and due to pain as surgery went on so very long. So please forgive me as I bow out for a time… 1
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