Sexual harassment and tax problems for dehlin or not?

[bluebell]

56 minutes ago, Teancum said:

If I posted something like what Scott just did it would likely get me locked out of the thread.  Such is the way of things.

It all comes down to whether or not a post is reported. Nemesis reacts equally to believers and critics, when he’s aware of the post.

That’s the rub. 

[bluebell]

34 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

I’m not sure what post you are referring to, but it seems yours seems to be doing more than a bit of question begging itself. The board is on record that they don’t consider the Delhin affair sexual harassment. 

But I thought the only reason they didn’t find it sexual harassment was becoming the two were equals.

If they aren’t equals, then that would seem to call the boards rejection of harassment into question. 

[SeekingUnderstanding]

1 minute ago, bluebell said:

But I thought the only reason they didn’t find it sexual harassment was becoming the two were equals.

If they aren’t equals, then that would seem to call the boards rejection of harassment into question. 

Can you point me to where they said this?

[Scott Lloyd]

1 hour ago, Teancum said:

If I posted something like what Scott just did it would likely get me locked out of the thread.  Such is the way of things.

I’ve been locked out of threads before. 
 

Added later: I’ve also been criticized for including what the critic deemed to be a gratuitous element in a post, and the critic was never thread-banned. I admit, though, that I never reported the critic. Though I disagreed with the critic, I didn’t think it warranted reporting or reprisal. 

Edited May 19, 2021 by Scott Lloyd

[Fair Dinkum]

On 5/17/2021 at 11:41 AM, Calm said:

Since the other thread this was posted on was to be focused on child abuse and this controversy has a chance Imo of turning into a legal case and mainly since I am wondering about the legal implications of Dehlin getting his mundane expenses taken care of through donations to the OS Foundation, I decided to devote a thread to the topic. 
 

Tax experts....what are the limitations for using donations for one’s mundane expenses, groceries and tuition for example?  Just to be clear, Dehlin didn’t hide he was going to use donations for these purposes, he was asking people to donate specifically for this.  The only issue in that area I see is if there were donations made prior to these requests or which were made to support an OSF project, perhaps a specific podcast for example.

But it appears even if open about the purpose, the IRS might feel differently about collecting for such.

____________

Sexual harassment issue:  summarizes imo as Dehlin tied RB’s future employment to his personal comfort level, she either volunteered and he accepted or he had her promise that if he asked her to leave, she would.  When the affair was over, he did require her to leave, but she refused at that point.  She was later fired.

Quote from Dehlin on this will be in a post below.

___________
 

I want the thread topics to focus on legal implications mostly, let’s avoid where possible the gossip side of things that can only be he said, she said at this point. And for those who wouldn’t appreciate it, please avoid any graphic details...I don’t believe they will be needed to discuss legal or even moral implications of the controversy. 
 

The Dear John Dehlin blog has the most detailed in one place information and most important, provides quotes and references, also avoids language issues. It is biased against Dehlin, strongly I am guessing given the content of the blog overtime, so be aware of that....but iirc I don’t remember it leaving out relevant information.  There are other places discussing the controversy, but no news articles that I am aware of. This appears to be a very in-house issue.
 

There are several of their blogs on this specific controversy.  I will post links to the most relevant.  If you are not familiar with the case, the blog should provide enough detail Imo, but if someone is aware of documented stuff they missed, please share. 
 

Please use “Rosebud” or RB and “Dehlin’s wife” or DW and other such substitutes in order to accommodate those who I am guessing don’t want to be linked forever to the controversy.  It is easy to find almost all the names involved (RB’s name is published by the blog I am linking to) or at least was before they removed the documents for better redacting, so this is not about hiding the names but limiting exposure. I am iffy on RB’s name given her previously vague accusations of Dehlin over the years, but let’s be generous for her family’s sake at least. If there is a non salacious  need to reference/quote something with her name on it, I am not going to ask mods to ban you...

summary of background:

https://dearjohndehlin.wordpress.com/2021/05/11/the-john-dehlin-papers-project/

https://dearjohndehlin.wordpress.com/2021/05/13/john-dehlins-interaction-with-rosebud-in-light-of-osf-harassment-policy/

https://dearjohndehlin.wordpress.com/2021/04/30/john-dehlins-rosebud-pruning-dividend/

https://dearjohndehlin.wordpress.com/2021/04/30/john-dehlin-doxxes-rosebud-via-bill-ree-confirming-her-relationship-allegations/

Background on prior money issues involving women:

https://dearjohndehlin.wordpress.com/2017/05/25/john-dehlin-and-the-women-problem/

Dehlin receiving both an income, health insurance and even having podcast related meals, hotel, travel or other podcast related costs either reimbursed or paid for by the 501c3 charity is no different than LDS General Authorities being paid an income, receiving health insurance and having their church related meals, hotel, travel or other church related costs either reimbursed or paid for by the church.

The income to both Dehlin or the GA is taxable to that individual, some of the expenses become a deductible expense for the respective charity but taxable to the individual  

Edited May 19, 2021 by Fair Dinkum
I

[bluebell]

28 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

Can you point me to where they said this?

I’ll see if I can find it. Maybe I’m remembering wrong. 

[Fair Dinkum]

On 5/17/2021 at 11:41 AM, Calm said:

 When the affair was over.

Do you have access to some secret credible inside information the rest of us are unaware of?  

[Scott Lloyd]

36 minutes ago, bluebell said:

It all comes down to whether or not a post is reported. Nemesis reacts equally to believers and critics, when he’s aware of the post.

That’s the rub. 

I would hope Nemesis would weigh each instance on its own circumstances and merits. Surely, not every complaint is justified. 

[bluebell]

18 minutes ago, Fair Dinkum said:

Dehlin receiving both an income, health insurance and even having podcast related meals, hotel, travel or other podcast related costs either reimbursed or paid for by the 501c charity is no different than LDS General Authorities being paid an income, receiving health insurance and having their church related meals, hotel, travel or other church related costs either reimbursed or paid for by the church.

The income to both Dehlin or the GA is  taxable to that individual, the expenses become a deductible expense for the respective charity.  

Didn’t JD also get money for things like groceries?

[bluebell]

8 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I would hope Nemesis would weigh each instance on its own circumstances and merits. Surely, not every complaint is justified. 

That’s what I said. He’s fair. 

[Scott Lloyd]

3 minutes ago, bluebell said:

That’s what I said. He’s fair. 

Just clarifying. 
 

There was some ambiguity in what you wrote. It could have been taken to mean that every complaint results in a penalty imposed upon the person complained of. 

[Calm]

35 minutes ago, Fair Dinkum said:

Dehlin receiving both an income, health insurance and even having podcast related meals, hotel, travel or other podcast related costs either reimbursed or paid for by the 501c charity is no different than LDS General Authorities being paid an income, receiving health insurance and having their church related meals, hotel, travel or other church related costs either reimbursed or paid for by the church.

The income to both Dehlin or the GA is  taxable to that individual, the expenses become a deductible expense for the respective charity.  

Are you a tax expert or giving your nonprofessional opinion?  Just so everyone can place the context of your comment.

I am not sure of the point of your post in relation to anything I have asked or stated. As far as I know GA’s don’t go public asking people to donate money to pay for stuff for them personally in addition to what is contracted to be paid already by the Church.  Since my question in regards to JD’s income has to do with whether JD asking for donations to go directly to his own expenses and whether or not that qualifies as inurement as RB claims, not seeing the relevance of that GAs are paid.  
 

Just to be clear, I am not claiming it was immoral or anything. Dehlin wasn’t hiding he was taking the money as far as I can tell. Just curious about whether it is actually a tax issue or not. 

Edited May 19, 2021 by Calm

[Fair Dinkum]

14 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Didn’t JD also get money for things like groceries?

If he did, it would be taxable income

 

I am not a tax expert but I do own a company and am involved in its tax decisions 

Edited May 19, 2021 by Fair Dinkum

[Calm]

4 minutes ago, Fair Dinkum said:

If he did, it would be taxable income

 

I am not a tax expert but I do own a company and am involved in its tax decisions 

Thank you. 

[Fair Dinkum]

21 minutes ago, Calm said:

Are you a tax expert or giving your nonprofessional opinion?  Just so everyone can place the context of your comment.

I am not sure of the point of your post in relation to anything I have asked or stated. As far as I know GA’s don’t go public asking people to donate money to pay for stuff in addition to what is contracted to be paid already by the Church.  Since my question in regards to JD’s income has to do with whether JD asking for donations to go directly to his own expenses and whether or not that qualifies as inurement as RB claims, not seeing the relevance of that GAs are paid. 

I am not a tax expert but I do own a company and am involved in its expenditures, compensation, costs and tax implication decisions.  

My point in making the comparison to compensated church leadership is that both Dehlin and compensated church GAs both earn incomes from non profit charities.  Both Dehlin and GAs seek donations to their respective charity and yes some of those solicited donations directly benefit both.  

I just felt that you were accusing Dehlin of things that the church does also, but when Dehlin does it’s somehow wrong but when the church does the same exact thing you’re just fine with it.

I don’t want to defend him but you were not playing fair ( in my humble opinion) I think it’s called a double standard 

 

 

Edited May 19, 2021 by Fair Dinkum

[Calm]

7 minutes ago, Fair Dinkum said:

just felt that you were accusing Dehlin of things that the church does also, but when Dehlin does it’s somehow wrong but when the church does the same exact thing you’re just fine with it.

I don’t want to defend him but you were not playing fair ( in my humble opinion) I think it’s called a double standard 

 

I am not accusing him of anything in regard to taxes. RB is and I am wondering how valid her accusation is. So far from the responses here it looks like it is not that big of a deal and something the IRS may or may not care about.  It isn’t a black and white easy call rule like RB imo was acting it was.

Edited May 19, 2021 by Calm

[Fair Dinkum]

28 minutes ago, Calm said:

Are you a tax expert or giving your nonprofessional opinion?  Just so everyone can place the context of your comment.

I am not sure of the point of your post in relation to anything I have asked or stated. As far as I know GA’s don’t go public asking people to donate money to pay for stuff for them personally in addition to what is contracted to be paid already by the Church.  Since my question in regards to JD’s income has to do with whether JD asking for donations to go directly to his own expenses and whether or not that qualifies as inurement as RB claims, not seeing the relevance of that GAs are paid.  
 

Just to be clear, I am not claiming it was immoral or anything. Dehlin wasn’t hiding he was taking the money as far as I can tell. Just curious about whether it is actually a tax issue or not. 

PS: Dehlin only has tax problems, as your post title claims, if he didn’t pay his taxes.  Are you asserting that he failed to pay his taxes?

[Calm]

50 minutes ago, Fair Dinkum said:

Do you have access to some secret credible inside information the rest of us are unaware of?  

If you are questioning the use of “affair” to describe  their romantic relationship (admitted to by both), what is your issue with the label and what would you call it?

[Calm]

Just now, Fair Dinkum said:

PS: Dehlin only has tax problems, as your post title claims, if he didn’t pay his taxes.  Are you asserting that he failed to pay his taxes?

The thread was for the purpose of questioning both whether or not the accusations of sexual harassment or the accusations of tax inurement are accurate. I am not making a judgment in the title that there was. I will put a question mark in it to make that clear. 

[Fair Dinkum]

11 minutes ago, Calm said:

If you are questioning the use of “affair” to describe  their romantic relationship (admitted to by both), what is your issue with the label and what would you call it?

An affair by definition involves a sexual relationship.  Have they both admitted to engaging in a sexual relationship?

I apologize for my pushing back on your assertions but I feel it’s important that we, especially on this board, play fair.  

The truth is none of us know what really took place between those two, if anything in fact did take place, expect RB and JD.  we’re all just engaging in pure speculation or gossip.

PS: I like you calm you’re generally very fair

Edited May 19, 2021 by Fair Dinkum

[Calm]

2 minutes ago, Fair Dinkum said:

An affair by definition involves a sexual relationship.  Have they both admitted to engaging in a sexual relationship?

Sexual as in physical?

[Fair Dinkum]

7 minutes ago, Calm said:

Sexual as in physical?

Ah...do I have to define what sex is?  An affair would involve a sexual act. That’s as far as I’m going.

[Calm]

Just now, Fair Dinkum said:

Ah...do I have to define what sex is?  An affair would involve a sexual act. That’s as far as I’m going.

If you are going to argue sex has to include intercourse, I am not interested in debating that as I think that is a ridiculous claim. 

[Fair Dinkum]

Just now, Calm said:

If you are going to argue sex has to include intercourse, I am not interested in debating that as I think that is a ridiculous claim. 

A sexual act does not have to involve intercourse and I never made that claim. 

[bluebell]

52 minutes ago, Fair Dinkum said:

If he did, it would be taxable income

 

I am not a tax expert but I do own a company and am involved in its tax decisions 

I’m asking in regards to your statement that JD isn’t being treated any differently than GAs.