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Argument style question.


provoman

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So I ask this question on this forum as I have learned much from the vast collective knowledge. So the question goes to fallacies, and a particular situation that I cannot seem to identify.

The situation is essentially "If x had been different, then y would not have occurred"  An example I can think of is "If I had left for work 5 minutes earlier, I would not have gotten in the wreck"; is this type of statement valid or is it some sort of fallacy based statement?

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Don't know the name , but it is a faulty conclusion that B must follow A. 

That said, I have seen a car that was hit by a 2 ton rock that fell down a mountain. One second faster or slower and the rock would have missed the car. Grandma in the back seat was killed because she was afraid to sit on the outside seat for fear of looking at the steep drop off. Had she sat on the outside seat she would not have been harmed. The front seat driver and passenger were unharmed. That was definitely a good case for your type of argument. 

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6 hours ago, strappinglad said:

Don't know the name , but it is a faulty conclusion that B must follow A. 

That said, I have seen a car that was hit by a 2 ton rock that fell down a mountain. One second faster or slower and the rock would have missed the car. Grandma in the back seat was killed because she was afraid to sit on the outside seat for fear of looking at the steep drop off. Had she sat on the outside seat she would not have been harmed. The front seat driver and passenger were unharmed. That was definitely a good case for your type of argument. 

In no way would I want to be unsympathetic to anyone who loses a loved one under any circumstances, let alone to someone who loses a loved one under those circumstances, but perhaps that's one of the best illustrations imaginable of how, when it's one's time, it's one's time.  Provoman, sorry for derailing the thread. :huh:

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Provoman, have you looked at lists of fallacies where you might find the answer to your question?

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On 11/23/2020 at 11:46 AM, provoman said:

So I ask this question on this forum as I have learned much from the vast collective knowledge. So the question goes to fallacies, and a particular situation that I cannot seem to identify.

The situation is essentially "If x had been different, then y would not have occurred"  An example I can think of is "If I had left for work 5 minutes earlier, I would not have gotten in the wreck"; is this type of statement valid or is it some sort of fallacy based statement?

A hypothetical that reaches its conclusion by denying the consequent of a conditional statement:

If P, then Q.
Not Q.
Therefore not P.

It is deductively valid. See the entry on Modus tollens for more detail.

However,

If P, then Q.
Therefore if Not Q then Not P.

This is deductively invalid. It is a fallacy called "Denying the Antecedent" or the fallacy of the inverse: a hypothetical that reaches its conclusion by denying the antecedent of a conditional statement.

Hope that helps. :)

 

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Isn’t it more “if not x, then not y; but x, therefore y”?  But that isn’t valid iirc, it would be “but y, therefore x” that is a valid structure  

x being leaving for work at a certain time, y being in an accident. 

Edited by Calm
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I have somewhat of an applicable situation... Not far from my house is a center with a small group of shops bordering the highway.  There is an intersection with driveway and traffic signal onto the highway... many times people on the highway are driving too fast, not paying attention, and come upon the signal and so they run through the light.  One day I finished my shopping at the little center and headed home... I was leaving the center via the driveway... as I was about to proceed through the intersection on my green light, something told me to Stop!!... which I did... just as a car ran the red light right in front of me.  A couple of things are at play here... first, one second sooner and I would have been in the intersection and hit broadside by the oncoming car... and second, what if I hadn't "heard" the command to "Stop" and immediately applied my brakes... thus avoiding an accident that surely would have caused me injury or perhaps death based on the speed of the car... hmmmm... I know what I think...

GG

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4 hours ago, Garden Girl said:

I have somewhat of an applicable situation... Not far from my house is a center with a small group of shops bordering the highway.  There is an intersection with driveway and traffic signal onto the highway... many times people on the highway are driving too fast, not paying attention, and come upon the signal and so they run through the light.  One day I finished my shopping at the little center and headed home... I was leaving the center via the driveway... as I was about to proceed through the intersection on my green light, something told me to Stop!!... which I did... just as a car ran the red light right in front of me.  A couple of things are at play here... first, one second sooner and I would have been in the intersection and hit broadside by the oncoming car... and second, what if I hadn't "heard" the command to "Stop" and immediately applied my brakes... thus avoiding an accident that surely would have caused me injury or perhaps death based on the speed of the car... hmmmm... I know what I think...

GG

I'm glad you heeded that prompting and were kept safe!  Indeed, continue to stay safe, my Sister!  Continue to stay safe! :friends:  (And "Go, Cougs!" ;))

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3 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

I'm glad you heeded that prompting and were kept safe!  Indeed, continue to stay safe, my Sister!  Continue to stay safe! :friends:  (And "Go, Cougs!" ;))

Tonight and tomorrow is basketball... tonight beginning at 5:00 p.m. (I think the actual game starts at 6:00 p.m.) on BYU-tv...

GG

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5 minutes ago, Garden Girl said:

Tonight and tomorrow is basketball... tonight beginning at 5:00 p.m. (I think the actual game starts at 6:00 p.m.) on BYU-tv...

GG

:yahoo: Whoo-hoo!!! :yahoo: 

I just had a change in my viewing plans for the evening, then! ;) 

(Sorry to derail the thread!  :huh:  Carry on!)

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