TheTanakas Posted September 8, 2020 Posted September 8, 2020 37 minutes ago, telnetd said: Do you have church teachings instead of Wikipedia to support the idea Psalm 82 is that council? @telnetd @InCognitus https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/jesus-the-christ/chapter-28?lang=eng "In Psalm 82:6, judges invested by divine appointment are called 'gods.' To this scripture the Savior referred in His reply to the Jews in Solomon's Porch. Judges so authorized officiated as the representatives of God and are honored by the exalted title 'gods.' Compare the similar appellation applied to Moses (Exo. 4:16; 7:1). Jesus Christ possessed divine authorization, not through the word of God transmitted to Him by man, but as an inherent attribute. The inconsistency of calling human judges 'gods,' and of ascribing blasphemy to the Christ who called Himself the Son of God, would have been apparent to the Jews but for their sin-darkened minds" This was from James E. Talmage, one of the Twelve Apostles. He passed away in 1933.
InCognitus Posted September 9, 2020 Posted September 9, 2020 6 hours ago, telnetd said: Do you have church teachings instead of Wikipedia to support the idea Psalm 82 is that council? Yes. From a statement from the First Presidency, 1912—April—Improvement Era 15:483-485 (April, 1912). Quote But the sole object of worship, God the Eternal Father, stands supreme and alone, and it is in the name of the Only Begotten that we thus approach Him, as Christ taught always. "God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; He judgeth among the gods." (Psalms 82:1.) Jesus quoted this and did not dispute it (John 10:34-6). All the perfected beings who are rightly called gods, being, like the Savior, possessed of "the fullness of the Godhead bodily," are ONE, just as the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost are one. 2
telnetd Posted September 9, 2020 Posted September 9, 2020 (edited) 17 hours ago, InCognitus said: All the perfected beings who are rightly called gods, being, like the Savior, possessed of "the fullness of the Godhead bodily," are ONE, just as the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost are one. Who are these perfected beings (the gods) who possessed the fullness of the Godhead at this Divine Council, and what do you mean by perfected? Edited September 9, 2020 by telnetd extra q
InCognitus Posted September 10, 2020 Posted September 10, 2020 1 hour ago, telnetd said: Who are these perfected beings (the gods) who possessed the fullness of the Godhead at this Divine Council, and what do you mean by perfected? They are unspecified beings. They are "perfected" though their desire to obey God's laws and by the grace and mercy of God. 1
telnetd Posted September 10, 2020 Posted September 10, 2020 15 hours ago, InCognitus said: They are unspecified beings. They are "perfected" though their desire to obey God's laws and by the grace and mercy of God. It sounds then that this is not the Divine Council that you mentioned earlier, where the spirit children of God were present.
InCognitus Posted September 10, 2020 Posted September 10, 2020 1 hour ago, telnetd said: It sounds then that this is not the Divine Council that you mentioned earlier, where the spirit children of God were present. We are all the spirit children of God. So why does this not sound like the Divine Council?
telnetd Posted September 11, 2020 Posted September 11, 2020 23 hours ago, InCognitus said: We are all the spirit children of God. So why does this not sound like the Divine Council? I suppose I have a hard time understanding what you meant by saying earlier "All the perfected beings who are rightly called gods, being, like the Savior, possessed of "the fullness of the Godhead bodily," are ONE, just as the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost are one" What is the difference in Adam and Eve already being gods in their pre-mortal state and them becoming gods (Gods in Alma 12:31) after eating the forbidden fruit? And why was Moses made as God to Pharaoh when he was already a god?
InCognitus Posted September 13, 2020 Posted September 13, 2020 On 9/11/2020 at 10:08 AM, telnetd said: I suppose I have a hard time understanding what you meant by saying earlier "All the perfected beings who are rightly called gods, being, like the Savior, possessed of "the fullness of the Godhead bodily," are ONE, just as the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost are one" What is the difference in Adam and Eve already being gods in their pre-mortal state and them becoming gods (Gods in Alma 12:31) after eating the forbidden fruit? And why was Moses made as God to Pharaoh when he was already a god? Human babies are still human even though they haven’t developed to their full potential. Likewise, eternal beings may be called “gods”, but that doesn’t mean they are all the same in their progression. Related to this, I know you know (because it has been discussed before) why it was that Adam and Even were said to be “as God” in the one attribute of God, to “know good and evil” (Genesis 3:22). They became more like God the Father in that one attribute. As for Moses in Exodus 7:1, that’s a totally different application of the word ’ĕlōhîm (god), since Moses was being called to be God’s representative to Pharaoh. 1
theplains Posted September 26, 2020 Posted September 26, 2020 On 9/13/2020 at 7:34 PM, InCognitus said: Human babies are still human even though they haven’t developed to their full potential. Likewise, eternal beings may be called “gods”, but that doesn’t mean they are all the same in their progression I found a few sources that offer a different perspective. https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/teachings-john-taylor/chapter-1?lang=eng "In one point of view, man appears very poor, weak, and imbecile, and very insignificant: in another point of view, he appears wise, intelligent, strong, honorable, and exalted ... In another point of view, we look at him as emanating from the Gods?-as a God in embryo?-as an eternal being who had an existence before he came here, and who will exist after his mortal remains are mingled and associated with dust, from whence he came, and from whence he will be resurrected and partake of that happiness for which he is destined, or receive the reward of his evil deeds, according to circumstances. ... ... What is [man]? He had his being in the eternal worlds; he existed before he came here. He is not only the son of man, but he is the son of God also. He is a God in embryo, and possesses within him a spark of that eternal flame which was struck from the blaze of God’s eternal fire in the eternal world, and is placed here upon the earth that he may possess true intelligence, true light, true knowledge,?-that he may know himself?-that he may know God?-that he may know something about what he was before he came here?-that he may know something about what he is destined to enjoy in the eternal worlds." https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/1973/07/man-a-child-of-god?lang=eng "The truth is, my beloved brethren and sisters, man is a child of God?-a God in embryo." 1
InCognitus Posted September 27, 2020 Posted September 27, 2020 9 hours ago, theplains said: I found a few sources that offer a different perspective. https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/teachings-john-taylor/chapter-1?lang=eng "In one point of view, man appears very poor, weak, and imbecile, and very insignificant: in another point of view, he appears wise, intelligent, strong, honorable, and exalted ... In another point of view, we look at him as emanating from the Gods?-as a God in embryo?-as an eternal being who had an existence before he came here, and who will exist after his mortal remains are mingled and associated with dust, from whence he came, and from whence he will be resurrected and partake of that happiness for which he is destined, or receive the reward of his evil deeds, according to circumstances. ... ... What is [man]? He had his being in the eternal worlds; he existed before he came here. He is not only the son of man, but he is the son of God also. He is a God in embryo, and possesses within him a spark of that eternal flame which was struck from the blaze of God’s eternal fire in the eternal world, and is placed here upon the earth that he may possess true intelligence, true light, true knowledge,?-that he may know himself?-that he may know God?-that he may know something about what he was before he came here?-that he may know something about what he is destined to enjoy in the eternal worlds." https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/1973/07/man-a-child-of-god?lang=eng "The truth is, my beloved brethren and sisters, man is a child of God?-a God in embryo." Why do you see this as a "different perspective" than what I posted? I don't see it as different. 1
theplains Posted October 24, 2020 Posted October 24, 2020 (edited) On 9/26/2020 at 8:25 PM, InCognitus said: Why do you see this as a "different perspective" than what I posted? I don't see it as different. Maybe we could define a mortal child of God as currently being a less-than-full-potential God. Edited October 24, 2020 by theplains grammar
JLHPROF Posted October 24, 2020 Posted October 24, 2020 4 hours ago, theplains said: Maybe we could define a mortal child of God as currently being a less-than-full-potential God. Is that like defining my 7 year old boy as a less-than-full-potential man? He'll grow up eventually. 1
InCognitus Posted October 30, 2020 Posted October 30, 2020 On 10/24/2020 at 6:45 AM, theplains said: Maybe we could define a mortal child of God as currently being a less-than-full-potential God. You mean like a god in embryo?
theplains Posted November 2, 2020 Posted November 2, 2020 On 10/29/2020 at 11:51 PM, InCognitus said: You mean like a god in embryo? President Marion G. Romney said "God in embryo." https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/1973/07/man-a-child-of-god?lang=eng "The truth is, my beloved brethren and sisters, man is a child of God?-a God in embryo."
InCognitus Posted November 3, 2020 Posted November 3, 2020 36 minutes ago, theplains said: President Marion G. Romney said "God in embryo." https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/1973/07/man-a-child-of-god?lang=eng "The truth is, my beloved brethren and sisters, man is a child of God?-a God in embryo." See? You had it right then when you said: "Maybe we could define a mortal child of God as currently being a less-than-full-potential God." 1
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