Latter-day Saint Prophet as Prophet Over All Christianity .

[Navidad]

13 hours ago, Calm said:

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is unique in the world today because prophets provide regular, divine direction from God. These messages are available to all people. The current prophet, President Russell M. Nelson, along with twelve apostles, speaks to the world twice a year during a series of meetings called general conference. The words of the prophet and the apostles are broadcast internationally and shared online for all to enjoy. The prophet and the apostles witness that Jesus is the Savior, and they help us follow His example

 

2 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

And the prophet today is the prophet to the whole world whether they accept or believe him or not

OK....then I am back to trying to figure out what that means in terms of real life. Today - tomorrow - next Thursday. How does President Nelson fulfill that role? What does he do to actively go out to the whole world as its prophet? He has certainly visited world leaders, but what does he do in those trips that is prophetic in nature? It seems more evangelistic - good will - building relationships. I guess we just have different concepts of the prophetic role. Why doesn't he intervene in the chaos in the US in a nation-wide special on all the networks? The church could certainly afford to buy the time. That may be silly, but I just don't understand how such a big and important responsibility plays out in real life? In spite of what my critics on this forum say, I am neither demeaning or debating his role; I am trying to understand it. Because yes, it does impact me too. I would contact 1000 people in two minutes and encourage them to watch! If you disagree with the prophet/evangelist distinction, then how exactly does President Nelson function as prophet to the whole world in real life terms today? I think that is something no one has answered. Is it just an honorary title? I don't think so.

[Navidad]

12 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

A lot.

Ok ....Then how about you and I sit down together some day! I would enjoy that.

[Navidad]

2 hours ago, JamesBYoung said:

Yes, from my earliest days in the Church, I have been taught over the pulpit, in priesthood, seminary, institute, religion classes, etc., that the Presiding High Priest of the Church of Jesus Christ is the head of the whole Christian world, with power, worlds without end.

I imagine the RC believes that of the Pope.

I imagine the leaders of the Church of Christ believe that of their leadership.

This is nothing new or radical.  And, yes, Navidad, I believe you have no hidden 'secret combination' desire to make  the Church look bad.

Thank you for your kindness. What I am trying to do is stipulate (using SMAC97's) lingo to the fact that my LDS friends believe that President Nelson is the "Presiding High Priest of the Church of Jesus Christ and the head of the whole Christian world." Ok, I stipulate to that belief; I am not debating or demeaning it. I keep trying to get specific and real world answers to "so what does that mean?" Specific and real world examples are not found in either the Bible or the D&C, nor in the BOM, nor in proclamations. I am trying to dig into what President Nelson will get up and do tomorrow in his awesome role as head of the whole Christian world? What will I see on his calendar to that effect?  I have preached to Church of Christ congregations - I will find out what they teach about their leaders. They share a heritage with the LDS Church. Thanks.

[CV75]

4 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

Yes. Would you agree that the current prophet holds the keys of salvation and exaltation for all who are living on the earth and all who have passed into the Spirit World? This extends his importance considerably.

Yes, but I kind of stop at and qualify "his importance." The keys are important, and the Lord's delegating them is important, and thus the office is important, and of course the Lord is preeminently important. 

[webbles]

1 hour ago, Navidad said:

 

OK....then I am back to trying to figure out what that means in terms of real life. Today - tomorrow - next Thursday. How does President Nelson fulfill that role? What does he do to actively go out to the whole world as its prophet? He has certainly visited world leaders, but what does he do in those trips that is prophetic in nature? It seems more evangelistic - good will - building relationships. I guess we just have different concepts of the prophetic role. Why doesn't he intervene in the chaos in the US in a nation-wide special on all the networks? The church could certainly afford to buy the time. That may be silly, but I just don't understand how such a big and important responsibility plays out in real life? In spite of what my critics on this forum say, I am neither demeaning or debating his role; I am trying to understand it. Because yes, it does impact me too. I would contact 1000 people in two minutes and encourage them to watch! If you disagree with the prophet/evangelist distinction, then how exactly does President Nelson function as prophet to the whole world in real life terms today? I think that is something no one has answered. Is it just an honorary title? I don't think so.

If Elijah lived today, what would you expect him to do?  What are other people you accept to be prophets in the Bible?  How would you expect each of them to act?

I'm not sure if you've read these but https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/bd/prophet?lang=eng, https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-principles/chapter-9-prophets-of-god?lang=eng, and https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/preach-my-gospel-a-guide-to-missionary-service/lesson-1-the-message-of-the-restoration-of-the-gospel-of-jesus-christ?lang=eng (specifically the "Heavenly Father Reveals His Gospel in Every Dispensation" section) talks about what we expect of a prophet.

[Navidad]

1 hour ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Sorry, Phil.  I don't know why I thought that, but I thought it a good reason to attend, not dishonorable in any way.  I myself have done exactly that, and it is standard policy among anthropologists.  I just wasn't paying attention to your self-description, but rather probably concluded that from some of the papers you have written for LDS symposia of various kinds.  I should have carefully checked before foolishly attempting to defend your efforts.

Actually, your questions have been taken seriously here, and of course your motivations will come into question -- based on how you frame questions, and on how you describe responses.  It is usually very helpful to quote those you are interpreting, lest they feel that you have misinterpreted them.

No problem at all. I do a fair amount of writing and speaking at LDS symposia, as you say. Certainly that is a result of academic research and writing that I have done. It is a great interest of mine, especially living where I do. I have been knee-deep into researching the relationships between the LDS and fundamentalist groups, especially here in Mexico. It is a fascinating history that it seems no one wants to touch! The history of the Mexican Mission is very complicated and few folks get it right - those who did are mostly gone now. Same thing with the history of the LDS colonies in Mexico. I enjoy researching all of that and working with the church history department on this or that. Early on in 1880 Moses Thatcher dedicated Mexico to the propagation of the LDS gospel to reach the Lamanites. That was the primary reason for the colonies. Today if you read most books you would think the colonies were founded as havens for polygamists from persecution. That certainly was a factor, but Brigham Young especially was adamant about the spread of the gospel into Mexico. Hence the colonies were founded. John Taylor changed the emphasis to one of haven, in addition to gospel propagation. The founding of the Mexican mission was for missionary work in what was then thought to be the focal point for BOM history. In a sense the coming of the polygamous folks interrupted that missionary work. Economic growth and survival became the focal point and stayed that way until the early 1930s. The economic conflicts to this day impact negatively on the church missionary effort here, especially in northern Mexico. It is fascinating that the farther away from the Anglo colonies you got, the more success the missionaries had. Those are the things I talk about in my LDS meetings. Not the stuff I ask about here.

My questions here on this forum have nothing to do with any of that. I am a strong advocate for and supporter of the LDS Church, certainly one of the strongest in the mainline Evangelical community. Then I am out preaching or teaching about religious conflict, which is perhaps the third leg on my activity stool. I regret being ABD and have determined to finish up the most important item on my bucket list - my earned doctorate. That may be silly at my age, but I am diligently plowing my way through it. I even was on British TV a couple of weeks ago, helping with a documentary on the Second Cristero conflict here in northern Mexico!  Ha!  I try and keep active, but often don't feel as well as I used to feel. Many years ago back in the seventies and eighties I spent this much time studying and trying to figure out the the Sokoto Caliphate in northwest Nigeria near where I had lived. I spent time in the mosques, teaching centers, and the bush during the time I was there. I became fascinated with the Fulani Muslims who dominated in that part of Africa. Once in a while I still get asked a question about all that, but not much any more. I had a really good friend who was the nephew of the Sultan of Sokoto. That really helped. Unfortunately he was killed in a boat accident on the Quorra River in Nigeria.

I have never been engaged with a faith that is as complex as the LDS church. My guess is there will be no end to my questions and my questions that come from my questions. All I can offer you is that they are sincere and genuine, however poorly worded. Sometimes on the forum I feel like if I were contacting a mechanic friend to help me to figure out how to fix a rattle of undetermined origin in my car and in response he sent me a brochure for the make and model. What I hoped for was that he would get under the hood with me and help me figure out the rattle, but instead he sent me the company mission statement or the sales figures for the year. Is all that interesting? Sure? But I have this rattle that I really would like help with. Silly probably, but it is how I feel. Best wishes.

[Calm]

3 hours ago, JamesBYoung said:

Presiding High Priest of the Church of Jesus Christ is the head of the whole Christian world,

Just the Christian world?  Someone actually made that limitation?

[Calm]

3 hours ago, Navidad said:

is what I think of when and LDS person says that President Nelson has authority over the whole Christian community, which then grants him the prerogative to go into any Christian church anywhere in the world and assert that "authority" because it is given to him directly by God for all Christianity

That is definitely not how LDS use "authority" though.  He has no administrative authority over other organizations besides the Church, Christian or otherwise.  He has spiritual authority for the world in that he may receive revelation for the world, which he may be commanded to proclaim (his watchman function).  He holds Priesthood keys for ordinances that function within the Latter-day Saint church that are available for all the world to come seek through baptism and membership in the Church, not to access ordinances and then separate themselves for the Restored Church or to have those ordinances done through another religious organization.  He may, as prophets have done before, bless or curse the world or parts of it, but he does not go in to other religious organization and assume leadership of them or think of himself as their leader in that fashion, since he does not have the authority to insist they pay tithing for example even while he may preach the value of tithing to the world.

Edited July 3, 2020 by Calm

[Calm]

Quote

What you are describing as "sharing his witness" is what an evangelist does -

Saints see a difference between sharing a witness which anyone can choose to do and being called to do so with Priesthood authority, being given that authority for either one's ward, one's mission area, stakes, regions, etc. .... or the world.  You may not, especially if you believe God calls people to be evangelists.  We however see enough of a difference because those who are called to such missions in our faith are ordained or set apart to do so.  Missionaries don't just go home at the end of their service, for example.  They are seen as officially missionaries until they are officially released (generally through their home stake president iirc).

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2001/04/special-witnesses-of-christ?lang=eng

Edited July 3, 2020 by Calm

[Navidad]

19 minutes ago, webbles said:

If Elijah lived today, what would you expect him to do?  What are other people you accept to be prophets in the Bible?  How would you expect each of them to act?

I'm not sure if you've read these but https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/bd/prophet?lang=eng, https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-principles/chapter-9-prophets-of-god?lang=eng, and https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/preach-my-gospel-a-guide-to-missionary-service/lesson-1-the-message-of-the-restoration-of-the-gospel-of-jesus-christ?lang=eng (specifically the "Heavenly Father Reveals His Gospel in Every Dispensation" section) talks about what we expect of a prophet.

Hi: Thanks I will read the material you included. If Elijah or any other OT prophet were alive today I would expect him or her to thunder with whatever direct message came to him or her from God. I would think he might put an associate in charge of the church and spend all his time fulfilling the directions to Jeremiah in Jer. 1:10 - "See, I have this day set thee over the nations and over the kingdoms, to root out, and to pull down, and to destroy, and to throw down, to build, and to plant." I was always taught those six things: rooting out sin, pulling down the proud, destroying the wicked, throwing down corrupt things like idols, false altars, etc., and of course building up, and planting were the job of the prophet. Obviously different prophets had specific tasks to perform. But, these six are the things that prophets were called to do that distinguished them from other roles such as shepherds, priests, kings, etc. Others have identified prophets in different ways with differing roles, but I think most of the OT prophets thundered! They had in one way or another faced God and they were never the same. I also believe a prophet had to be able to foretell (prophesy - specific things, events and times) and forthtell (be a powerful preacher). That is probably too simplistic.

Perhaps thundering is not as well thought of today as it used to be! I clearly remember preachers like the Irish fellow, James McGinley when I was but a boy. Wow, could he preach! If you asked me to name someone who in my lifetime deserved the moniker of prophet he is who I would have mentioned. He was probably the greatest preacher I ever heard. So yes, I think a prophet has to be a great preacher. Some prophets have forgotten the last two things of Jer 1:10 - they forget they also need to build and to plant.

Just my musings. Now Jedediah Grant - he could thunder! I think sometimes he forgot the build and plant part! 
 

[Navidad]

23 minutes ago, Calm said:

That is definitely not how LDS use "authority" though.  He has no administrative authority over other organizations besides the Church, Christian or otherwise.  He has spiritual authority for the world in that he may receive revelation for the world, which he may be commanded to proclaim (his watchman function).  He holds Priesthood keys for ordinances that function within the Latter-day Saint church that are available for all the world to come seek through baptism and membership in the Church, not to access ordinances and then separate themselves for the Restored Church or to have those ordinances done through another religious organization.  He may, as prophets have done before, bless or curse the world or parts of it, but he does not go in to other religious organization and assume leadership of them or think of himself as their leader in that fashion, since he does not have the authority to insist they pay tithing for example even while he may preach the value of tithing to the world.

Thanks, that helps!

[Calm]

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/prophets-and-apostles/unto-all-the-world/the-twelve-and-the-seventy-part-three-witnesses-to-the-world?lang=eng

Quote

To be a special witness of the name of Christ means that you have that witness and that authority that is unfailing, and it will be with you everywhere in the world.”

Probably useful to read the full article for additional context.

Edited July 3, 2020 by Calm

[Calm]

4 minutes ago, Navidad said:

I would think he might put an associate in charge of the church and spend all his time fulfilling the directions to Jeremiah in Jer. 1:10

We believe God has instructed the Prophet to be the president of the Restored Church and to delegate some responsibilities while fulfilling others himself.

[Navidad]

6 minutes ago, Calm said:

Saints see a difference between sharing a witness which anyone can choose to do and being called to do so with Priesthood authority, being given that authority for either one's ward, one's mission area, stakes, regions, etc. .... or the world.  You may not, especially if you believe God calls people to be evangelists.  We however see enough of a difference because those who are called to such missions in our faith are ordained or set apart to do so.  Missionaries don't just go home at the end of their service, for example.  They are seen as officially missionaries until they are officially released (generally through their home stake president iirc).

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2001/04/special-witnesses-of-christ?lang=eng

Hi - I am not sure if we are saying the same thing or not. Many non-LDS groups ordain people to the role of evangelist, believing it to be a specific gift that should be overseen by church governance. This may have been emphasized in situations where people had gone out on their own and declared themselves to be evangelists and got themselves into various kinds of trouble. Authorizing someone by a formal church action would then provide accountability. I also was always taught in our tradition (not trying to change anyone's mind here) that the evangelist was a unique and special New Testament office and calling that in some limited ways replaced the role of the OT prophet. Someone like Philip then was known as Philip the Evangelist as separate from Philip the Apostle. Philip the Evangelist was also a deacon and bishop in a specific local church. He performed miracles and was quite a unique NT individual. He is one of the most important NT church founders in eastern Africa. II Tim 4:5 describes "the work of an evangelist." It seems to be one NT office that for whatever reason the LDS church didn't create for its own structure. . . at least not that I know of! So of course, I could be wrong!

[Calm]

3 hours ago, Navidad said:

I am trying to dig into what President Nelson will get up and do tomorrow in his awesome role as head of the whole Christian world?

I think you will keep confusing yourself if you keep saying "whole Christian world" because that implies a different type of authority than how Saints think of the Prophet as having authority over the whole world, not Christian organizations.  Added:  It is not their Christian nature that determines why the Prophet has authority over a person, but the fact they are human.

Maybe thinking of it as authority over the individuals rather than organizations can help.  The prophet's stewardship is to care for the spirits and bodies of all God's children (meaning all humanity, not just the ones who recognize God as their father) on earth during his prophethood in the way that God commands him to do, whether that is through evangelizing/preaching/proclaiming with Priesthood authority or overseeing humanitarian efforts with Priesthood authority or overseeing Temple work with Priesthood authority...or any other work God calls the Prophets to do.

At times in the past, the only calling a prophet had was to be silent and serve as a witness to God's judgments coming to pass (Ether, Moroni).  Not saying this would be part of the calling of a President of the Church for the entire world as I don't know if either were so appointed, I don't believe we are given that type of detail whether their calling was simply over the part of theearth where they lived and had physical access to or it extended beyond through spiritual access.  I am just pointing out that for Saints, part of being a prophet is being silent when commanded to be by God and act as recorder rather than preacher and I can see the possibility that might be most of the work of a prophet in certain end times and places.  

If the Prophet is God's spokesperson on earth, then that means speaking as God directs and being silent as God directs...and since God chooses various ways to show himself to mankind, the Prophet may not always speak in a voice of thunder, but at times something more appropriate for inspiring someone to experience the still, small voice.

Edited July 4, 2020 by Calm

[Calm]

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/bd/evangelist?lang=eng

Quote

Evangelist

In popular usage throughout Christendom, an evangelist is one who proclaims the gospel. The idea of traveling to preach is also associated with current usage. In the popular sense, the writers of the four Gospel records are called evangelists, as also are Philip (Acts 21:8) and Timothy (2 Tim. 4:5). Paul lists the office of evangelist in the organizational structure of the Church (Eph. 4:11).

However, in latter-day revelation an evangelist is defined as a patriarch (D&C 107:39–53). Joseph Smith taught that “an Evangelist is a Patriarch, even the oldest man of the blood of Joseph or of the seed of Abraham. Wherever the Church of Christ is established in the earth, there should be a Patriarch for the benefit of the posterity of the Saints” (HC 3:381).

This is not something I have studied so I can't explain the possible reasoning here.

Edited July 3, 2020 by Calm

[Calm]

28 minutes ago, Navidad said:

any non-LDS groups ordain people to the role of evangelist, believing it to be a specific gift that should be overseen by church governance.

Of course.  But we don't see those ordinances as ones done with God's authorized Priesthood even if those who do them see it the same way.  So we would see such efforts as effectively prayers (which have great spiritual value, but not Priesthood authority) for someone, rather than spiritual ordainings under the power of the Priesthood.  

Simply because people do things the same way and even with the same understanding doesn't mean they are the same thing if one has authority and the other doesn't, even if they believe they do.

Which means if the Restored Gospel doesn't have the authority we Saints believe it has, our ordinances are not valid, just as we currently view others who we see as not having the authority even if they have the righteous desire.

Edited July 3, 2020 by Calm

[Bernard Gui]

3 hours ago, CV75 said:

Yes, but I kind of stop at and qualify "his importance." The keys are important, and the Lord's delegating them is important, and thus the office is important, and of course the Lord is preeminently important. 

I agree on all points. Of course it refers to the office, but there is a man who occupies the position. 

[webbles]

6 hours ago, Navidad said:

Hi: Thanks I will read the material you included. If Elijah or any other OT prophet were alive today I would expect him or her to thunder with whatever direct message came to him or her from God. I would think he might put an associate in charge of the church and spend all his time fulfilling the directions to Jeremiah in Jer. 1:10 - "See, I have this day set thee over the nations and over the kingdoms, to root out, and to pull down, and to destroy, and to throw down, to build, and to plant." I was always taught those six things: rooting out sin, pulling down the proud, destroying the wicked, throwing down corrupt things like idols, false altars, etc., and of course building up, and planting were the job of the prophet. Obviously different prophets had specific tasks to perform. But, these six are the things that prophets were called to do that distinguished them from other roles such as shepherds, priests, kings, etc. Others have identified prophets in different ways with differing roles, but I think most of the OT prophets thundered! They had in one way or another faced God and they were never the same. I also believe a prophet had to be able to foretell (prophesy - specific things, events and times) and forthtell (be a powerful preacher). That is probably too simplistic.

Perhaps thundering is not as well thought of today as it used to be! I clearly remember preachers like the Irish fellow, James McGinley when I was but a boy. Wow, could he preach! If you asked me to name someone who in my lifetime deserved the moniker of prophet he is who I would have mentioned. He was probably the greatest preacher I ever heard. So yes, I think a prophet has to be a great preacher. Some prophets have forgotten the last two things of Jer 1:10 - they forget they also need to build and to plant.

Just my musings. Now Jedediah Grant - he could thunder! I think sometimes he forgot the build and plant part! 
 

Interesting.  Thanks for that.

I do see President Nelson to be doing those 6 things.  Just maybe not with a lot of thundering (it is hard to imagine him thundering).

[mfbukowski]

On 7/2/2020 at 12:16 PM, Navidad said:

Did I say it bothers me? On the other hand, I find this fascinating! I can truly say that never in anything I have read or heard that the President of the LDS Church is considered the head of the entire Christian church, or broader yet is the ranking authority for the entire population of the earth. I also have never thought that our bishop, as wonderful as he is, is the presiding authority for all those who live within the geographical boundary of our ward. Colonia Juarez, even as a prominent old LDS colony, is minority LDS. There are Catholics, Pentecostals, and I am sure many who affiliate with no church. I always have pushed against the LDS Church being the only truly Christian church in the world. Yes, I have heard that taught. But I never thought of our bishop as the spiritual head of everyone who lives in our entire area. There goes the idea of our voluntarily submitting to his authority! He is over us whether we submit or not! That is the teaching is it not?

It's about stewardship, and taking the word to all in your jurisdiction as well as you can.

You probably do not have this experience where you live, but while I was bishop my wife and I were driving through a very rough part of an adjacent town- a corner of which is in our ward.

There was a guy standing on the corner looking to do some "business" on the corner, he had his pants down below his underwear in back,  was heavily tattooed including facial tattoos and prison tattoos indicating his membership in specific gangs.   He was eyeing every car that went by carefully, hoping for a signal that they also wanted to do business.

I quietly, but uncharitably said to my wife (the windows were down)- "Wow- check that guy out!  I wouldn't want to meet HIM in a dark alley"

With her usual quiet wisdom she said to me "Yes, and you are his bishop".

The implication was - "What could we possibly do to bring him to Christ?"

I lost sleep over that thought, and pondered it carefully.  She was completely right, as usual.

It is not about lording one's authority over others because they cannot "voluntarily submit to authority" and as we church members know that minute we exercise with that kind of attitude, we instantly use the authority.

Yes obviously it bothers you or you would not have said that.  It is about taking Christ to others, not submitting them to authority.  It is obviously that you repeatedly bring that up with resentment.  It is about attributing a negative view of LDS folks feeling superior to others which does not exist.

It is from our point of view, a desire to share the wealth the Lord has prepared for us, not to be prideful.

Pride is the fountain of every sin and as President Benson taught, is enmity toward God and man, and is the motivation for all sin.

Edited July 4, 2020 by mfbukowski

[Bernard Gui]

10 hours ago, Navidad said:

Ok ....Then how about you and I sit down together some day! I would enjoy that.

We could start by discussing the D&C quotes I provided. You asked, “Is it a doctrine of the church, and if so, where is it spelled out in writing?”

It is spelled out in our scriptures. These explain the function, necessity, importance, and provenance of the keys of the Priesthood. The only man possessing these keys is the President of the Church, currently President Nelson. By virtue of the keys and authority he has been given by Jesus Christ and apostles and prophets of previous dispensations, he delegates to other priesthood holders throughout the world the authority to administer the ordinances of salvation and exaltation to all who have lived or are living on the earth now. In this sense he stands as the Prophet, the only authorized representative of God the Father and the Son, to all the earth.

Quote

D&C 132:7 And verily I say unto you, that the conditions of this law are these: All covenants, contracts, bonds, obligations, oaths, vows, performances, connections, associations, or expectations, that are not made and entered into and sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, of him who is anointed, both as well for time and for all eternity, and that too most holy, by revelation and commandment through the medium of mine anointed, whom I have appointed on the earth to hold this power (and I have appointed unto my servant Joseph to hold this power in the last days, and there is never but one on the earth at a time on whom this power and the keys of this priesthood are conferred), are of no efficacy, virtue, or force in and after the resurrection from the dead; for all contracts that are not made unto this end have an end when men are dead.

D&C 65:1 Hearken, and lo, a voice as of one sent down from on high, who is mighty and powerful, whose going forth is unto the ends of the earth, yea, whose voice is unto men—Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

2 The keys of the kingdom of God are committed unto man on the earth, and from thence shall the gospel roll forth unto the ends of the earth, as the stone which is cut out of the mountain without hands shall roll forth, until it has filled the whole earth.

3 Yea, a voice crying—Prepare ye the way of the Lord, prepare ye the supper of the Lamb, make ready for the Bridegroom.

4 Pray unto the Lord, call upon his holy name, make known his wonderful works among the people.

5 Call upon the Lord, that his kingdom may go forth upon the earth, that the inhabitants thereof may receive it, and be prepared for the days to come, in the which the Son of Man shall come down in heaven, clothed in the brightness of his glory, to meet the kingdom of God which is set up on the earth.

6 Wherefore, may the kingdom of God go forth, that the kingdom of heaven may come, that thou, O God, mayest be glorified in heaven so on earth, that thine enemies may be subdued; for thine is the honor, power and glory, forever and ever. Amen.
 

D&C 110:

11 After this vision closed, the heavens were again opened unto us; and Moses appeared before us, and committed unto us the keys of the gathering of Israel from the four parts of the earth, and the leading of the ten tribes from the land of the north.

12 After this, Elias appeared, and committed the dispensation of the gospel of Abraham, saying that in us and our seed all generations after us should be blessed.

13 After this vision had closed, another great and glorious vision burst upon us; for Elijah the prophet, who was taken to heaven without tasting death, stood before us, and said:

14 Behold, the time has fully come, which was spoken of by the mouth of Malachi—testifying that he [Elijah] should be sent, before the great and dreadful day of the Lord come—

15 To turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the children to the fathers, lest the whole earth be smitten with a curse—

16 Therefore, the keys of this dispensation are committed into your hands; and by this ye may know that the great and dreadful day of the Lord is near, even at the doors.

.

[Bernard Gui]

15 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

t is not about lording one's authority over others because they cannot "voluntarily submit to authority" and as we church members know that minute we exercise with that kind of attitude, we instantly use the authority.

Use or lose?

[mfbukowski]

On 7/2/2020 at 1:16 PM, Navidad said:

Here is the relevant question in the temple recommend interview - Do you sustain the President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the prophet, seer, and revelator and as the only person on the earth authorized to exercise all priesthood keys?  I have read that question many times. I have always thought of it as referring to him as the prophet, seer and revelator of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints since that is the predicate. I have always in my mind, inserted the letters LDS in front of "priesthood keys." I know of no other Christian group who actively speak of priesthood keys. So in my understanding, I limited both of those to the LDS Church. I guess that is the wrong answer. I don't think this is quite as clear as you suggest in either interview.

It says the only person ON EARTH who has all the keys for the ordinances of salvation.

And the church, it is believed, is the only church on earth with these keys.  Therefore the prophet is the only one ON EARTH who holds the keys to salvation.

Clear as a bell to me!  

[mfbukowski]

4 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Use or lose?

The wrong ATTITUDE is what causes it to be lost.  You know- if it is exercised with the wrong attitude "amen to the priesthood of that man".

THAT's what I mean.

[mfbukowski]

11 hours ago, Stargazer said:

I'm always flipped out. 🙂 

I'm not sure this is the case.  But perhaps this isn't the thread to speculate on this.

Of course there are other worlds where the Father has children for whom He has called a prophet. Of course we're not told about those other worlds because it's not our business.

33 And worlds without number have I created; and I also created them for mine own purpose; and by the Son I created them, which is mine Only Begotten.
34 And the first man of all men have I called Adam, which is many.
35 But only an account of this earth, and the inhabitants thereof, give I unto you. For behold, there are many worlds that have passed away by the word of my power. And there are many that now stand, and innumerable are they unto man; but all things are numbered unto me, for they are mine and I know them.
36 And it came to pass that Moses spake unto the Lord, saying: Be merciful unto thy servant, O God, and tell me concerning this earth, and the inhabitants thereof, and also the heavens, and then thy servant will be content.
37 And the Lord God spake unto Moses, saying: The heavens, they are many, and they cannot be numbered unto man; but they are numbered unto me, for they are mine.
38 And as one earth shall pass away, and the heavens thereof even so shall another come; and there is no end to my works, neither to my words.
39 For behold, this is my work and my glory — to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man. (Moses 1:33-39)

God would not leave those in other worlds without a prophet.

LOL.

Thanks for the reply.  I am sure you are right!

So we do then know that Christ is the savior and creator of all the worlds.

And we worry about the historicity of the Book of Mormon?  Just think about them worrying about the historicity of some alien named "Jesus" who died for them on another planet? 

Just a joke but another part of the problem with historicity used to confirm a spiritual belief