Baptist Preacher Praises Book of Mormon

[Stargazer]

I thought this might have shown up here in the past few months, but a search seems to show it hasn't. So I thought I would post it. I found it on the Third Hour website.

https://thirdhour.org/blog/faith/scripture/book-of-mormon/baptist-preacher-book-of-mormon

Here's the first part of the article:

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“In a nutshell I have discovered that in places, this book is more Baptist than the Baptist hymnal.”

That’s what Southern Baptist minister Dr. Lynn Ridenhour said to start off his sermon in the video you’re about to watch. And boy did he have plenty more to say about The Book of Mormon. For more than ten minutes, Dr. Ridenhour preaches about the book’s message non-stop. Here are a few quotes from his sermon:

“Just like the Bible, the theme—the central theme—of this book, The Book of Mormon, is the Lordship of Jesus Christ.”

“Take off your Baptist glasses. Take off your Presbyterian glasses. Take off your Pentecostal glasses. Take off your Episcopal glasses. Take off your Lutheran glasses. And come to this book like a child, and read it.”

“While I was teaching, I had a library of over 6,000 books. And of all the books that I have ever read, this book is the most non-sectarian. This book is meant for Catholics. This book is meant for Episcopalians. This book is meant for Presbyterians. This book is meant for Lutherans. This book is meant for Seventh-Day Adventists. This book is meant for disciples of Christ. This book is meant for Methodists. This book is meant for Baptists. This book is meant for Pentecostals. This book is meant for Charismatics. This book we will even let you use.”

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You can view the video on the website if you wish; it's in the link given above.

 

 

[Anakin7]

Yes this has been discussed in The Past on this board. There is some question however to his having really bee an ordained Baptist Minister, I judge not on this. However he has put out some interesting material on his site.He is up there in age now so I do not know how active he is in his ministry

The Atonement It Is The Central Doctrine

Washing My Garment/Robe In His Blood

In His Eternal Debt/Grace

He Died To Make Man Holy

Anakin7

[Ahab]

I remember talking to him several years ago on this website.  He seemed to accept the Book of Mormon as scripture and I was trying to help him realize he still needed to join our Lord's church.  He didn't accept that then and it looks like he still doesn't accept that now.

Maybe someday he'll see and and understand why all disciples of Jesus Christ need to gather together into our Lord's true church, rather than remain separate and apart in other individual churches that are not a part of our Lord's true church.

 

[randy]

Everything isn't always as it appears sometimes!  In the past I had quite a bit of interaction with Mr. Ridenhour, not on this website however.  In short, take EVERYTHING he says with a HUGE grain of salt!!   In fact, Mr. Ridenhour DID JOIN the LDS Church several years ago.  He did in fact resign his membership because he was not given the "leeway" to do what he wanted with respect to his "bridge building" program.  In a "nutshell" Mr. Ridenhour lied to the Missionaries who taught him, lied about his testimony of the Church.....simply to gain access to the membership of the Church to promote himself.  

This is his gimmick.  This is how he gins up interest in his "programs".   Be VERY aware of wolves in sheeps clothing!   

Edited February 25, 2020 by randy

[Ahab]

5 minutes ago, randy said:

Nothing is ever as it appears.   In the past I had quite a bit of interaction with Mr. Ridenhour, not on this website however.  In short, take EVERYTHING he says with a HUGE grain of salt!!   In fact, Mr. Ridenhour DID JOIN the LDS Church several years ago.  He did in fact resign his membership because he was not given the "leeway" to do what he wanted with respect to his "bridge building" program.  In a "nutshell" Mr. Ridenhour lied to the Missionaries who taught him, lied about his testimony of the Church.....simply to gain access to the membership of the Church. 

This is his gimmick.  This is how he gins up interest in his "programs".   Be VERY aware of wolves in sheeps clothing!   

Yes, thank you for helping to jog my memory a little more.  When I talked to him on this website he had become a member but he was having problems accepting the priesthood authority of our Church leaders.  He didn't seem to see the need to hearken to their counsel.

And his focus was more on getting people to accept the Book of Mormon than to get people to join the Church.  Couldn't quite figure him out and I didn't see him do some of the things you say here but he is very obviously still a "Baptist" minister who still doesn't seem to want to help people to join our Lord's true church.

[randy]

It was, is and always will be just a ploy to draw members of the Church into his domain, web if you will.    Bottom line...I told him this..."Lynn...you lied to the Missionaries, you lied to your Bishop, you lied to your Brothers and Sisters in your Ward...you lied to the Lord.  He has ZERO credibility with me, and my position is that he and whatever he's promoting at the time...should be shunned.  He joined the Church in my Stake.  I know his former Bishop.  He used us.  I took that quite personally.   So, anytime his name pops up....I confess, I get a wee bit agitated.    He's a slick operator...I will give him that.

Edited February 25, 2020 by randy

[The Nehor]

7 hours ago, Stargazer said:

“In a nutshell I have discovered that in places, this book is more Baptist than the Baptist hymnal.”

That is it! I refuse to be insulted further. I challenge this guy to a duel.

[Navidad]

I hesitate to jump in here. I knew this gentleman forty-some years ago when he was an English professor at the same college where I taught. It was always my understanding that he was more oriented towards and faithful to the Community of Christ than to the LDS church. He may have indeed been ordained at some time by a small Baptist church, but I never saw him function in a ministerial capacity. He taught English - nothing wrong with that! I doubt that his motivation was to convert members of the LDS or COC church to becoming Baptists. I have never heard of him doing that. I think he found a niche. I know he preached in a lot of small churches about the BOM. In that sense he was quite bold. He was pretty good at it, so he developed a following as have some former LDS folks who have taken upon themselves a priesthood and authority outside of the LDS church. There are certainly plenty of those. I spend most of my time now studying the mormon (small m) fundamentalist groups in preparation for a series of talks this summer about them and their interrelationships with the colonies here in Mexico.

I will make one more comment in my own defense. Please do not connect me to him, or think of him when you read my posts. I have a deep and abiding respect for most things LDS-related - not all, I admit, but most. I genuinely want to learn and understand. I do a lot of inter-faith dialogue teaching, but I also do a lot of religion and conflict teaching as well. As I said a few times here a couple of years ago, I am neither an investigator, instigator, or alligator in my intent in the ward or on this forum. I am subject to a very wise and Godly bishop here in our ward. I know some of you can't comprehend that, but it is true. He is the spiritual authority in our church (ward) that we have voluntarily "joined" for purposes of worship and fellowship. We (middle voice Dr. Smith 😀) place ourselves under his authority.

So I would encourage you to consider what this gentleman says with a salt shaker of salt, but please don't connect him with me. Thanks. 

[Ahab]

13 minutes ago, Navidad said:

I hesitate to jump in here. I knew this gentleman forty-some years ago when he was an English professor at the same college where I taught. It was always my understanding that he was more oriented towards and faithful to the Community of Christ than to the LDS church. He may have indeed been ordained at some time by a small Baptist church, but I never saw him function in a ministerial capacity. He taught English - nothing wrong with that! I doubt that his motivation was to convert members of the LDS or COC church to becoming Baptists. I have never heard of him doing that. I think he found a niche. I know he preached in a lot of small churches about the BOM. In that sense he was quite bold. He was pretty good at it, so he developed a following as have some former LDS folks who have taken upon themselves a priesthood and authority outside of the LDS church. There are certainly plenty of those. I spend most of my time now studying the mormon (small m) fundamentalist groups in preparation for a series of talks this summer about them and their interrelationships with the colonies here in Mexico.

I will make one more comment in my own defense. Please do not connect me to him, or think of him when you read my posts. I have a deep and abiding respect for most things LDS-related - not all, I admit, but most. I genuinely want to learn and understand. I do a lot of inter-faith dialogue teaching, but I also do a lot of religion and conflict teaching as well. As I said a few times here a couple of years ago, I am neither an investigator, instigator, or alligator in my intent in the ward or on this forum. I am subject to a very wise and Godly bishop here in our ward. I know some of you can't comprehend that, but it is true. He is the spiritual authority in our church (ward) that we have voluntarily "joined" for purposes of worship and fellowship. We (middle voice Dr. Smith 😀) place ourselves under his authority.

So I would encourage you to consider what this gentleman says with a salt shaker of salt, but please don't connect him with me. Thanks. 

KInd of hard for me to avoid doing that when I see things people have in common with other people.  What I know of him from speaking with him is that he seems to see a lot of good in the Book of Mormon and in our Church but he still isn't seeing why he should join us, as a member of our Church.  And he also doesn't seem to see any difference between the priesthood we have in our Church and the priesthood he professes to have, even though I and others have tried to explain those differences to him.  Or why we don't consider his baptism to be valid in the kingdom of God because it was not done or authorized by the same priesthood.  And I suppose he also doesn't see our perspective on other ordinances as well.  Or maybe he does see and just disagrees with us anyway, believing he is right and we are wrong.

As an accountant, by trade, I have a tendency to try to organize things and put things in their proper place, seeing the differences between different things and trying to report/classify those things as I see appropriate.  So it's something I tend to do with everybody.

Edited February 26, 2020 by Ahab

[Calm]

Quote

 I think he found a niche. I know he preached in a lot of small churches about the BOM. In that sense he was quite bold. He was pretty good at it, so he developed a following as have some former LDS folks who have taken upon themselves a priesthood and authority outside of the LDS church.

That was my impression of him when I first encountered him almost 20 years ago. 

I see you as being very different in motivation and other ways. 

Edited February 26, 2020 by Calm

[Stargazer]

1 hour ago, Ahab said:

KInd of hard for me to avoid doing that when I see things people have in common with other people.  What I know of him from speaking with him is that he seems to see a lot of good in the Book of Mormon and in our Church but he still isn't seeing why he should join us, as a member of our Church.  And he also doesn't seem to see any difference between the priesthood we have in our Church and the priesthood he professes to have, even though I and others have tried to explain those differences to him.  Or why we don't consider his baptism to be valid in the kingdom of God because it was not done or authorized by the same priesthood.  And I suppose he also doesn't see our perspective on other ordinances as well.  Or maybe he does see and just disagrees with us anyway, believing he is right and we are wrong.

As an accountant, by trade, I have a tendency to try to organize things and put things in their proper place, seeing the differences between different things and trying to report/classify those things as I see appropriate.  So it's something I tend to do with everybody.

It might be that he is one of those voices from whom the Spirit is being withheld because he may be more valuable to the Lord outside the Church than inside it. As was Alexander Doniphan. Although whether Doniphan had any belief in the church is unknown to me.

 

Edited February 26, 2020 by Stargazer

[randy]

My issue with Mr. Ridenhour is that he continually lied and was deceitful in his purposes and  in his intent to join the LDS church.  We know what the baptismal questions are.  It would have been impossible for him to have answered them honestly and still be baptized.  Yes,  he found a "niche".  As I say...this was/is his way of making a living.  Again, I have serious issues with someone lying and being deceitful to good people....to promote his latest gimmick.   Zero credibility.    

Star...I understand your sentiment....but in my heart and mind...I cannot believe the Lord would condone Mr. Ridenhour lying to the Lords servants to gain access to the Saints.  Perhaps if he would have gone about his business without trying or feeling the need to invade the Church through baptism to gain access....perhaps I would feel differently about his motives.

[Ahab]

On 2/26/2020 at 2:50 PM, Stargazer said:

It might be that he is one of those voices from whom the Spirit is being withheld because he may be more valuable to the Lord outside the Church than inside it. As was Alexander Doniphan. Although whether Doniphan had any belief in the church is unknown to me.

 

Hearing him talk about how the Book of Mormon is true and in harmony with the gospel would be helping with the Lord's work to some extent,  but if I first heard about the Book of Mormon from him I would wonder where the book came from and who wrote it (or translated it) and when and what about other people who believe it? Where are they and what does this all mean?  And once I found out about our Church, maybe after reading Joseph Smith's preface to the Book of Mormon, I would wonder why this Baptist preacher isn't a member of our Church, himself?  Why is he still a Baptist preacher?  Why isn't he a member of our Church and talking about how important it is to join our Church and receive all of the blessings available through the gospel?  

So while I can see that his preaching about the Book of Mormon might help someone a little bit, by first hearing about it from him, there would still be a lot of questions that I would have and I don't think this guy would help much to point me in the right direction, otherwise he would be where we are and talking about how others need to be introduced to some elders in our Church so that they can get more into all of this.  

[Stargazer]

2 hours ago, Ahab said:

Hearing him talk about how the Book of Mormon is true and in harmony with the gospel would be helping with the Lord's work to some extent,  but if I first heard about the Book of Mormon from him I would wonder where the book came from and who wrote it (or translated it) and when and what about other people who believe it? Where are they and what does this all mean?  And once I found out about our Church, maybe after reading Joseph Smith's preface to the Book of Mormon, I would wonder why this Baptist preacher isn't a member of our Church, himself?  Why is he still a Baptist preacher?  Why isn't he a member of our Church and talking about how important it is to join our Church and receive all of the blessings available through the gospel?  

So while I can see that his preaching about the Book of Mormon might help someone a little bit, by first hearing about it from him, there would still be a lot of questions that I would have and I don't think this guy would help much to point me in the right direction, otherwise he would be where we are and talking about how others need to be introduced to some elders in our Church so that they can get more into all of this.  

CS Lewis was an atheist until JRR Tolkien convinced him that God really did exist. Lewis then went back to his boyhood church, which was the Church of England, this time as a believer. Tolkien was disappointed that Lewis didn't become a Catholic, like himself.  I can imagine convincing someone who was areligious to become religious, and then they go and become a Baptist. These things happen.

[Ahab]

4 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

CS Lewis was an atheist until JRR Tolkien convinced him that God really did exist. Lewis then went back to his boyhood church, which was the Church of England, this time as a believer. Tolkien was disappointed that Lewis didn't become a Catholic, like himself.  I can imagine convincing someone who was areligious to become religious, and then they go and become a Baptist. These things happen.

Yep, and both of them were around when the Church was well established in Salt Lake City, too.  So I think if anyone hears about the Book of Mormon it is best to hear about it from some elders of our Church. And the same goes for the Bible too.  Too much priestcraft out there resulting in too many false churches and if they all start saying the Book of Mormon is true, like they do about the Bible, it won''t help one whit to point people to the true church of Jesus Christ where we offer the proper ordinances administered by people with the proper authority.

But I suppose believing the word of God still does help a little bit, even if people don't know where to go to receive all of the ordinances they need for salvation and exaltation.

[Navidad]

On 2/26/2020 at 3:50 PM, Stargazer said:

It might be that he is one of those voices from whom the Spirit is being withheld because he may be more valuable to the Lord outside the Church than inside it. As was Alexander Doniphan. Although whether Doniphan had any belief in the church is unknown to me.

 

Alexander Doniphan was what we know today as a Southern Baptist. He was influential in the Missouri Baptist Convention and was one of two principal founders of William Jewell College, in Liberty, MO in 1849, just four years after the SBC was organized. William Jewell up until a few years ago remained a Southern Baptist College. It is now an independent college with a wonderful reputation. I have been privileged to speak there several times.

Doniphan was not the first Baptist however to have helped the Saints in Missouri. We simply need to go back to late June 1834. Zion's Camp was almost at its destination. The little army camped on some high ground between two branches of the Fishing River. They were concerned about being attacked when it started to rain. In Saints: The Standard of Truth, p. 204 we learn a bit about the story. It was recorded by Heber Kimball and Wilford Woodruff in their journals. It was a terrible storm. The soldiers at Fort Leavenworth, over the border in Kansas recorded it as the worst storm ever seen in that part of the country. Even though they were on high ground, the tents of the army were soaked and some were in danger of complete collapse. Some of the men were already starting to feel ill. Over to the east they noticed a little log building with a door open and the light on inside. It was the Gilead Baptist Church. Many of the men, including the leaders sought shelter in that church. They stretched out on the pews and on the floor, listening to the rain pelt the roof. That storm is often credited in LDS history as having flooded the east fork of the Fishing River and keeping the army from being attacked. Woodruff tells us that the men were grateful to have a place to shelter. As they were dozing, the Prophet came in and possibly preached his shortest sermon ever. As recorded by Woodruff (who recorded everything) Joseph Smith walked in, took off his soaked jacket and said, "Boys there's some meaning in this. God is in this storm!" With that he laid down and went to sleep. Some of the men sang hymns through the storm. Gilead Baptist Church was founded only a few years earlier. Its founding was very unique in that the charter members were listed as six white landowners and six slaves. All were named and are remembered as founders of the church. They were good people to list their slaves by name as founders of their little church. That rarely happened. 

Local Baptist lore tells us that the pastor and founder of the church lit the light and opened the door for the Saints to find shelter. I do not know if that is true or not, but I have heard it from the locals myself and have on occasion repeated that to LDS audiences. In fact I once told it to Ben Godfrey, one of the managers of the new history project. He said he wished he had known the whole story. They would have included it in the book. I wish they had. We need more reminders how even in troubled times Godly people from diverse backgrounds reached out to help each other. Several days later the men and two women began to die from cholera, a disease the party had probably contacted the night before the storm as some camped and drank on the humid, soggy ground by the Missouri River. I believe fourteen in all died from cholera that week. They are little remembered. They represent a significant percentage of the Saints who died during the whole Missouri conflict. The prophet himself as recorded in Saints was very sick.  I would like to think that maybe a kind act by a farmer Baptist preacher might have saved some of those who otherwise might have been much sicker.

I first heard of this story years ago when I read about it in an LDS magazine. It was titled "The Night Baptists Saved the Prophet" or something like that. Maybe some of you remember reading that. Some years ago I was speaking in the area and had to go find the forks in the river. I spent the day tromping on private property and talking to locals. I found the site of Gilead Baptist Church. The foundation area is clearly there. The church is not. It has been moved two times, but the church still exists in the neighboring town. There may be apocryphal elements to the story, but elements of it are remembered in both LDS diaries and in local Baptist history. LDS artist Judith Mehr has memorialized the event, the church, the tents, the storm, and the light through the open doors in one of her paintings. It appeared in LDS Sunday School literature. The church still holds the copyright, but I have been unable, even when sleuthing around the Deseret Book Store and other places in SLC to find out where the original is of her painting. The nice lady in charge there suggested I look in the church history museum, maybe it is stored away somewhere there. I asked Judith Mehr and she doesn't know. It is a powerful work of art commemorating a wonderful event. The storm and the little church may have saved many lives that June evening. Now you know the rest of the story. 

Sorry if this bored you all. I just love stories especially when they involve interfaith cooperation even among those who otherwise might see things very differently. Doniphan and the pastor the Gilead Baptist Church in 1834 are just two examples. 

[Navidad]

6 hours ago, Ahab said:

Hearing him talk about how the Book of Mormon is true and in harmony with the gospel would be helping with the Lord's work to some extent,  but if I first heard about the Book of Mormon from him I would wonder where the book came from and who wrote it (or translated it) and when and what about other people who believe it? Where are they and what does this all mean?  And once I found out about our Church, maybe after reading Joseph Smith's preface to the Book of Mormon, I would wonder why this Baptist preacher isn't a member of our Church, himself?  Why is he still a Baptist preacher?  Why isn't he a member of our Church and talking about how important it is to join our Church and receive all of the blessings available through the gospel?  

So while I can see that his preaching about the Book of Mormon might help someone a little bit, by first hearing about it from him, there would still be a lot of questions that I would have and I don't think this guy would help much to point me in the right direction, otherwise he would be where we are and talking about how others need to be introduced to some elders in our Church so that they can get more into all of this.  

My friend . . . have you ever heard of Eeyore? 

[Navidad]

3 hours ago, Stargazer said:

CS Lewis was an atheist until JRR Tolkien convinced him that God really did exist. Lewis then went back to his boyhood church, which was the Church of England, this time as a believer. Tolkien was disappointed that Lewis didn't become a Catholic, like himself.  I can imagine convincing someone who was areligious to become religious, and then they go and become a Baptist. These things happen.

To say the least! It appears they have often happened. There are more Baptists in the world than members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints! Just saying . . . !🤠

[Navidad]

3 hours ago, Ahab said:

Yep, and both of them were around when the Church was well established in Salt Lake City, too.  So I think if anyone hears about the Book of Mormon it is best to hear about it from some elders of our Church. And the same goes for the Bible too.  Too much priestcraft out there resulting in too many false churches and if they all start saying the Book of Mormon is true, like they do about the Bible, it won''t help one whit to point people to the true church of Jesus Christ where we offer the proper ordinances administered by people with the proper authority.

But I suppose believing the word of God still does help a little bit, even if people don't know where to go to receive all of the ordinances they need for salvation and exaltation.

Just a "little bit?" 

[Ahab]

28 minutes ago, Navidad said:

Just a "little bit?" 

Think about the people who heard the apostles on the day of Pentecost soon after our Lord was resurrected.  They heard the word of God but still had to ask:  What must we do to be saved?

Fortunately there were some people there who knew what they needed to do, and could baptize them into the true church of Jesus Christ back then.

[randy]

Navidad,

I truly do not see anything close to comparable between an honest man such as Alexander Doniphan...who had character and integrity,  and Mr. Ridenhour….who did not, at least as it pertains to his interactions with the Church.  There is no honor in lying and using sincere people, or in being deceitful to Church leaders, simply to promote ones self interests.  He used the Saints good will and the good name of the Church for selfish motives.  The very least he could do was to come clean on his motives and to issue a sincere apology.

To be clear, I was seeing a comparison being made between the two men.  If that was not your intent, I do apologize.

[Navidad]

On 2/29/2020 at 12:07 PM, randy said:

Navidad,

I truly do not see anything close to comparable between an honest man such as Alexander Doniphan...who had character and integrity,  and Mr. Ridenhour….who did not, at least as it pertains to his interactions with the Church.  There is no honor in lying and using sincere people, or in being deceitful to Church leaders, simply to promote ones self interests.  He used the Saints good will and the good name of the Church for selfish motives.  The very least he could do was to come clean on his motives and to issue a sincere apology.

To be clear, I was seeing a comparison being made between the two men.  If that was not your intent, I do apologize.

Hi Randy: Thanks for the reply, but no I was not making any comparison between the two men. I was just responding to a comment that someone posted about not knowing whether or not Doniphan had an interest in the LDS Church beyond his legal work and military encounters with them. I do know a bit about his later life, including his time here in Chihuahua during the Mexican-American War which I didn't think was particularly relevant to the conversation. I then went off on a tangent on the engagement of Zion's Camp with the Gilead Baptist Church because, well simply because I like to tell stories. I knew Dr. Ridenour, but did not know him well and make no defense of anything he has or has not done. Take care. 

[randy]

2 hours ago, Navidad said:

Hi Randy: Thanks for the reply, but no I was not making any comparison between the two men. I was just responding to a comment that someone posted about not knowing whether or not Doniphan had an interest in the LDS Church beyond his legal work and military encounters with them. I do know a bit about his later life, including his time here in Chihuahua during the Mexican-American War which I didn't think was particularly relevant to the conversation. I then went off on a tangent on the engagement of Zion's Camp with the Gilead Baptist Church because, well simply because I like to tell stories. I knew Dr. Ridenour, but did not know him well and make no defense of anything he has or has not done. Take care. 

Fair enough my good Sir!!!!  Thank you...and so you know...I LOVE to listen to stories!!!