A Coming Out Party in Provo

[california boy]

9 hours ago, ALarson said:

Exactly.  But some really have a problem seeing how the members or the public have an affect on change and only want to believe it comes from revelation.  I don't understand why it can't be both and I believe they can work as combined factors for change.

Whether the protests peeked or not or whether it was the building of the temple in Brazil is probably open to your point of view.  What the bretheren did know is that the issue of discrimination was here to stay.  It wasn't going to get any better in the future.  It was always going to reflect negitively on the church.  This was an issue that had to be resolved if the Church was going to move forward in a positive way.  A bigoted, racist church was not going to thrive.  That proved to be the case as church membership surged over the next couple of decades.

Does the church have any similar issues facing it today?  Is it also stalling the work from going forth because of current perception and labels put on the Church?  We shall see.

Edited May 2, 2019 by california boy

[california boy]

8 hours ago, mrmarklin said:

Here's what gets me about this whole thing.  There was no need to come out.  I've never come out as a heterosexual. 

If a person is living within the laws of the Lord, of course he/she will be in favor with God.  I don't need to know that either.

I live and work in the San Francisco bay area.  I know many gay people, some are clients.  None go around telling the world about their sexuality.  No need.  People aren't stupid, they know. 

I really don't get the compulsion to tell everyone about one's sexuality.  Any one important in this person's life already knew.

I live in the Bay Area as well.  And you are right.  Few gays announce some kind of coming out.  My partner has never come out.  He never felt the need.  He just lived his life and everyone figures it out. No one cares.  You are free to talk about your same sex partner just like heterosexuals talk about their opposite sex partners.  No one gasps when the subject comes up. 

The Mormon Church is not the Bay Area.  And even though I was a member of the Church in the Bay Area, the reactions were worlds apart.  It is an issue if you are gay. The sole reason why I came out is because I couldn't trust people when they said they loved me, or that they thought I was a wonderful guy.  i always thought, would they still think that if they knew I was gay?  I needed to come out because I needed to know who really cared about me for who I was and who only could care about me if they thought I was straight.

Did it make a difference to those that knew me outside the church?  Not one bit.  Did it make a difference in the ward I attended?  Even though I had once served in the bishopric, been young men's president, and teachers quorum advisor, taught early morning seminary for numerous years, served on the High Council, of all the ward members, only two families every reached out and talked to me ever again.  Coming out gave me the answer I needed to know.  I could move forward with my life.  And I could know if someone was my friend.  Me, not someone they wanted me to be.

[california boy]

9 hours ago, Calm said:

Haven't read it yet, but given the summaries it sounds like he used his own life's biggest struggle to show he could relate to others who experienced difficulties in their lives.

It would be like me using my health issues as an example when the majority of people never feel the need to bring up their health because it isn't seen as a major struggle for them.

Now if I went around introducing myself as Cal R with the major sleep disorder without regard to where and to whom I was talking...that would be weird (I have known people who do that, one person would inform total strangers after Church in the lobby or parking lot she had been abused as a child and her family had rejected her, etc).

The speech is posted in the News forum.  It is short, about 5 minutes.  It is not a coming out speech.  He mentions struggles that all go through to be there on that day to receive their diplomas.  His struggle happened to be that he was called "deer boy" and yeah, being gay.

From the speech

Quote

"I hope that my stories can serve as a reminder that BYU has given us the foundation to face difficult problems, both secular and spiritual, and that with the Lord, all things are possible."

 

 

Edited May 2, 2019 by california boy

[california boy]

1 hour ago, Wade Englund said:

I honor your desire for all people to be blessed and happy.

When Blacks gained their civil rights and later the priesthood, they have progressed spectacularly, not just in the U.S., but throughout the world, most particularly through the spreading of the Church in Africa.

However, as homosexuals have received state sanction for their relationships (first through domestic partnerships and later through radically redefining "marriage"),, thus effectively normalizing them,  and saw a remarkable increase in public acceptance (now the majority opinion), and celebration of their orientation, they have seen a marked increase in STD's,  AIDS, gay-related illnesses and general physical unwellness, suicides, gay-on-gay violence (which far surpasses hate crime statistics), gay teen pregnancies (I know, it doesn't make sense, but there it is),  gay mental illness, broken relationships, increased infidelity, etc. The better things seemed to be made for them, they became worse off. (I can provide statistics if you would like)

What do you suppose is the difference between the two groups. (Hint: the one has nothing to do with sin, and the other has everything to do with sin)

The point being, people have assumed that they are making homosexuals happier by indulging their sexual proclivities, but in the end they are making them more miserable. 

This being the case, if people really want to see homosexuals happy, the last thing they would be clamoring for in relation to the Church,  is the very thing that increased their misery through the state.

Not so awesome, IMO.

Thanks -Wade Englund-

Seriously?  You don't think there are hundreds of thousands of gay couples happily married and living a productive life because of the Supreme Court affirming their civil rights?  

It is sad that you can only see the worst in this group.  I hope someday you will see how the majority of us live our lives.

[member10_1]

1 hour ago, Wade Englund said:

I honor your desire for all people to be blessed and happy.

When Blacks gained their civil rights and later the priesthood, they have progressed spectacularly, not just in the U.S., but throughout the world, most particularly through the spreading of the Church in Africa.

However, as homosexuals have received state sanction for their relationships (first through domestic partnerships and later through radically redefining "marriage"),, thus effectively normalizing them,  and saw a remarkable increase in public acceptance (now the majority opinion), and celebration of their orientation, they have seen a marked increase in STD's,  AIDS, gay-related illnesses and general physical unwellness, suicides, gay-on-gay violence (which far surpasses hate crime statistics), gay teen pregnancies (I know, it doesn't make sense, but there it is),  gay mental illness, broken relationships, increased infidelity, etc. The better things seemed to be made for them, they became worse off. (I can provide statistics if you would like)

What do you suppose is the difference between the two groups. (Hint: the one has nothing to do with sin, and the other has everything to do with sin)

The point being, people have assumed that they are making homosexuals happier by indulging their sexual proclivities, but in the end they are making them more miserable. 

This being the case, if people really want to see homosexuals happy, the last thing they would be clamoring for in relation to the Church,  is the very thing that increased their misery through the state.

Not so awesome, IMO.

Thanks -Wade Englund-

Terrible logic Wade. Post your references (and if they’re a series of Ben Shapiro videos I’m going to lose my freaking mind).

[ALarson]

5 hours ago, member10_1 said:

Terrible logic Wade. Post your references (and if they’re a series of Ben Shapiro videos I’m going to lose my freaking mind).

Yes, I'd like to see some references for all those claims.  However, it seems one can find statistics to support almost any view now 

But I would think that if more are in committed relationships, at least the spread of AIDS and other sexually transmitted diseases would be on the decline and not increasing.

All I know is that the few people I know who are gay (family members and friends) are much happier since they feel more accepted and are able to marry.  I'm going to my second "gay wedding" in a few months (a member of my wife's family) and they are a wonderful couple.  They could not be happier and treat each other incredibly well.  The few who I know who are in SSM, are the same.  It's wonderful to see them so happy.

[ALarson]

15 hours ago, mrmarklin said:

Here's what gets me about this whole thing.  There was no need to come out. 

I don't think it's up to you to judge what "needs" others have.  Doing this may have met a great and very important "need" for this young man.

[USU78]

9 hours ago, Okrahomer said:

My wife says she has 3 cats.

When folks ask:  How many cats do you have?  I say:  3 too many. 

But guess who feeds, waters, and cleans-up after them? 

Guess who has to take time off work to take them to the vet?

Guess who worries when one of them acts a little "off"?

Apparently, "Guess Who" loves them as much (or more) than his wife...

How in the world did this happen...?!!!

Same thing happened to me with my wife's dog. Dang thing looks to me. I have to feed her, bathe her, take her to the groomer and vet, stand outside with her while she does her business (yes, she's that precious), and walk her. I was and am indifferent to the hairy beastie. How does that happen?

[rockpond]

15 hours ago, mrmarklin said:

I really don't get the compulsion to tell everyone about one's sexuality.  Any one important in this person's life already knew.

I think he did it to help others.  In the LDS world, being gay can be isolating and lonely.  I think that situation is improving.  But I am guessing that he wanted to let other gay youth know that they can be who they are and find happiness.

[california boy]

28 minutes ago, ALarson said:

Yes, I'd like to see some references for all those claims.  However, it seems one can find statistics to support almost any view now 

But I would think that if more are in committed relationships, at least the spread of AIDS and other sexually transmitted diseases would be on the decline and not increasing.

All I know is that the few people I know who are gay (family members and friends) are much happier since they feel more accepted and are able to marry.  I'm going to my second "gay wedding" in a few months (a member of my wife's family) and they are a wonderful couple.  They could not be happier and treat each other incredibly well.  The few who I know who are in SSM, are the same.  It's wonderful to see them so happy.

 

From HIV.gov Inew cases of HIV infections have gone down across the board in every catagory.  It is jusr Wade doing his histeric rant on gays.  I try to ignore it.

 

By age group, between 2010-2016, the annual number of HIV infections decreased among persons aged 13–24 and 45–54 but increased among persons aged 25–34. The number of infections remained stable among persons aged 33-44 and ≥55 years.

By race/ethnicity, between 2010-2016, the annual number of HIV infections decreased among blacks/African Americans, whites, and persons of multiple races and remained stable for Asians and Hispanics/Latinos.

By sex, between 2010-2016, the annual number of new HIV infections decreased among females but remained stable among males.

By HIV transmission category, between 2010-2016, the annual number of HIV infections decreased among male and female adults and adolescents with infection attributed to injection drug use, and among females with infection attributed to heterosexual contact. The annual number of infections remained stable overall among males with infection attributed to male-to-male sexual contact, among males with infection attributed to male-to-male sexual contact and injection drug use, and among males and females with infection attributed to injection drug use. However, there were differences by race/ethnicity and transmission group.

New HIV Infections by Race and Transmission Group, U.S. 2010 vs. 2016:

Source: CDC, HIV Incidence: Estimated Annual Infections in the U.S., 2010-2016, Feb. 2019.

Edited May 2, 2019 by california boy

[MustardSeed]

I thought it was common knowledge that HIV  has dropped off dramatically 🤔. 

I understand the struggle with accepting homosexuality as a “norm”.  I’m all about being kind and loving and sharing the men, but I also don’t bring up current events with my elderly parents.  When you’ve lived a sheltered life for 80 years, the idea of the changes in the world is overwhelming for them.  I get it.  But on the other hand if my folks were to say something cruel I’d share my opinion.  I don’t think they would though. 

Also, great pet stories gents but applications aren’t accepted until FRIDAY.  😂

[JulieM]

1 hour ago, california boy said:

From HIV.gov Inew cases of HIV infections have gone down across the board in every catagory.  It is jusr Wade doing his histeric rant on gays.  I try to ignore it.

 

By age group, between 2010-2016, the annual number of HIV infections decreased among persons aged 13–24 and 45–54 but increased among persons aged 25–34. The number of infections remained stable among persons aged 33-44 and ≥55 years.

By race/ethnicity, between 2010-2016, the annual number of HIV infections decreased among blacks/African Americans, whites, and persons of multiple races and remained stable for Asians and Hispanics/Latinos.

By sex, between 2010-2016, the annual number of new HIV infections decreased among females but remained stable among males.

By HIV transmission category, between 2010-2016, the annual number of HIV infections decreased among male and female adults and adolescents with infection attributed to injection drug use, and among females with infection attributed to heterosexual contact. The annual number of infections remained stable overall among males with infection attributed to male-to-male sexual contact, among males with infection attributed to male-to-male sexual contact and injection drug use, and among males and females with infection attributed to injection drug use. However, there were differences by race/ethnicity and transmission group.

New HIV Infections by Race and Transmission Group, U.S. 2010 vs. 2016:

Source: CDC, HIV Incidence: Estimated Annual Infections in the U.S., 2010-2016, Feb. 2019.

Thank you for posting this.  It makes sense that this would be the truth about recent HIV statistics.

[Wade Englund]

8 hours ago, member10_1 said:

Terrible logic Wade. Post your references (and if they’re a series of Ben Shapiro videos I’m going to lose my freaking mind).

Demonstrate the alleged terrible logic if you can, M101.

As for the statistics, they are packed throughout a short series of blogs I created on the SSM issue (see HERE) There isn't a single Ben Shapiro video among them--I wouldn't want you to lose what little mind or heart you may have.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[Wade Englund]

8 hours ago, california boy said:

Seriously?  You don't think there are hundreds of thousands of gay couples happily married and living a productive life because of the Supreme Court affirming their civil rights?  

It is sad that you can only see the worst in this group.  I hope someday you will see how the majority of us live our lives.

Obviously, I was speaking as a general rule, which allows for rare exceptions. I was also reporting statistical facts. In the common vernacular, I was red-pilling--which in no reasonable way can be interpreted as only seeing the worst.. 

By the way, genuine compassion towards homosexuals is focused on results rather than vacuous posturing, and looks out for the temporal and spiritual welfare of homosexuals, rather than sweeping serious health and welfare issues under the PC rug.

So, please save your mock indignation for people who are less intelligent and less caring.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Edited May 2, 2019 by Wade Englund

[USU78]

59 minutes ago, Wade Englund said:

Demonstrate the alleged terrible logic if you can, M101.

As for the statistics, they are packed throughout a short series of blogs I created on the SSM issue (see HERE) There isn't a single Ben Shapiro video among them--I wouldn't want you to lose what little mind or heart you may have.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

I especially liked this one:  https://winteryknight.com/2016/06/29/study-relationship-problems-not-family-rejection-leading-cause-of-higher-gay-suicides/

[Wade Englund]

3 hours ago, california boy said:

From HIV.gov Inew cases of HIV infections have gone down across the board in every catagory.  It is jusr Wade doing his histeric rant on gays.  I try to ignore it.

 

By age group, between 2010-2016, the annual number of HIV infections decreased among persons aged 13–24 and 45–54 but increased among persons aged 25–34. The number of infections remained stable among persons aged 33-44 and ≥55 years.

By race/ethnicity, between 2010-2016, the annual number of HIV infections decreased among blacks/African Americans, whites, and persons of multiple races and remained stable for Asians and Hispanics/Latinos.

By sex, between 2010-2016, the annual number of new HIV infections decreased among females but remained stable among males.

By HIV transmission category, between 2010-2016, the annual number of HIV infections decreased among male and female adults and adolescents with infection attributed to injection drug use, and among females with infection attributed to heterosexual contact. The annual number of infections remained stable overall among males with infection attributed to male-to-male sexual contact, among males with infection attributed to male-to-male sexual contact and injection drug use, and among males and females with infection attributed to injection drug use. However, there were differences by race/ethnicity and transmission group.

New HIV Infections by Race and Transmission Group, U.S. 2010 vs. 2016:

Source: CDC, HIV Incidence: Estimated Annual Infections in the U.S., 2010-2016, Feb. 2019.

One of the PC tactics used to downplay serious problems in the gay community is to not only, among other things,  mix homosexual statistics with the general population, but spread them across demographics, hoping that the slight of hand might give the false impression that those with genuine concerns for homosexuals may be viewed as "histeric." This may work among the less intelligent or mindless denizens in leftist echo chambers, but not for reasonable and truly compassionate people who care about results.

If one looks carefully at just the homosexual/Bi-sexual statistics,  one will notice NEW infections went from 24,200 in 2010 to 24,800 in 2016. In other words, there was a marked increase in HIV infections among homo/bi-sexuals.

But, if you think about this even deeper, I don't know how it couldn't make you break down and weep with sorrow for the gay community.  Please understand that these are NEW cases each year, and not total cases  of HIV infections. over six years.  The rate of new HIV infections per year among gay/bi' is nearly three time higher than for tuberculous. 

What makes this even more chilling, is the tuberculous statistics are general population wide, whereas the HIV infections I note above are specific to a small segment less than 5%) of the population. In other words,  out of a pollution of approx. 1.5 million, nearly 25,000 (2%)  are being NEWLY infected with a life-threatening decease each year . And that number is increasing. And, this is all behavior-related, and thus avoidable.

This is also just the tip of the unhealthy and harmful iceberg.

Call me "histerical" if you wish, but at least I am not sweeping this preventable tragedy under the rug.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[Calm]

2 hours ago, Wade Englund said:

Demonstrate the alleged terrible logic if you can, M101.

As for the statistics, they are packed throughout a short series of blogs I created on the SSM issue (see HERE) There isn't a single Ben Shapiro video among them--I wouldn't want you to lose what little mind or heart you may have.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Cfrs require pinpointing claims, not waving in the general direction according to board enforcement.  Can't remember if this is specified in the rules.

[rockpond]

17 minutes ago, Calm said:

Cfrs require pinpointing claims, not waving in the general direction according to board enforcement.  Can't remember if this is specified in the rules.

I went to Wade's blog... clicked on four of the links that his blog post indicated would support his claims of increased promiscuity, abuse, and STI's among gay men.  One of the four was a broken link to an old Brainerd Dispatch article.  The other three didn't provide any data to support the claim.

Further, the blog post Wade linked to is from 2013.  It appears that Wade hasn't made any new posts to that blog since 2014.  So, all of those posts were before gay marriage was made legal in the US.

Note to @Wade Englund - I have you on blocked status so don't bother replying to me.  I won't see it.

Edited May 2, 2019 by rockpond

[USU78]

3 minutes ago, rockpond said:

I went to Wade's blog... clicked on four of the links that his blog post indicated would support his claims of increased promiscuity, abuse, and STI's among gay men.  One of the four was a broken link to an old Brainerd Dispatch article.  The other three didn't provide any data to support the claim.

Further, the blog post Wade linked to is from 2013.  It appears that Wade hasn't made any new posts to that blog since 2014.  So, all of those posts were before gay marriage was made legal in the US.

Note to @Wade Englund - I have you on blocked status so don't bother replying to me.  I won't see it.

Wade has updates from, for example, 2016, at various points.  It is not accurate to assert, as you do, that the information is all 6 years old.  And his point about new AIDS cases is well taken.

[rockpond]

A couple notes on confounding factors that should be considered with respect to Wade's claim (that still appears to be unsubstantiated)...

Regarding statistics on domestic abuse:  I would anticipate reports of domestic abuse among gay couples to increase as gay couples become recognized as such.  My understanding is that the legal definition of domestic abuse requires either married or cohabitation with an intimate partner (as opposed to roommates).  If an officer of the law did not recognize two men as a couple, it seems to me that abuse might have been filed as assault.  As officers increasingly recognize gay couples, you would expect to see an increase in domestic abuse among gay couples.

And,  the introduction of pre-exposure prophylaxis drugs, may be resulting in an increase in risky sexual behaviors under the belief that HIV is no longer a risk.  But PrEP does not offer any protection against other STI's.

 

In any case, we should always apply some of the simple rules of statistical analysis when considering data:  watch out for confounding factors AND correlation is not causation.

 

[ALarson]

36 minutes ago, Calm said:

Cfrs require pinpointing claims, not waving in the general direction according to board enforcement.  Can't remember if this is specified in the rules.

I have Wade blocked, but see his posts if quoted.  I tried going to his blog and found very little to support his claims.  Did someone issue him an actual CFR?

(California Boy has provided some excellent information and actual statistics that disagree with at least some of Wade's claims.)

Edited May 2, 2019 by ALarson

[ALarson]

14 minutes ago, USU78 said:

Wade has updates from, for example, 2016, at various points.  It is not accurate to assert, as you do, that the information is all 6 years old.  And his point about new AIDS cases is well taken.

I found his blog to be kind of a mess (as well as some of the links).  But I'll try again.

But so far, his claims just appear to be his claims.

Wade, maybe post some specific links that give stats supporting all that you've stated here?

Edited May 2, 2019 by ALarson

[rockpond]

12 minutes ago, USU78 said:

Wade has updates from, for example, 2016, at various points.  It is not accurate to assert, as you do, that the information is all 6 years old.  And his point about new AIDS cases is well taken.

If he has information that is current that supports his claims, he should link to that.  The date stamps on his blog posts are all 2013 and 2014.  I accept that he may have linked to newer data within those posts, but I'm not going to dig through them to find it.

[Wade Englund]

19 minutes ago, Calm said:

Cfrs require pinpointing claims, not waving in the general direction according to board enforcement.  Can't remember if this is specified in the rules.

I made an across-the-board statistical claim about the health and welfare of homosexuals since the advent of the homosexual movement in general, and the SSM debate in particular. The CFR was in regards to that general, and not pinpointed claim, and the link I provided  spoke precisely to that across-the-board claim.. 

However, in the blog series I linked to, the claims and statistical evidence are broken down to pinpoint all and more of the several examples I mentioned.. 

So, whether specified in the rules or no, my linked reference should easily fit  within the spirit, if not the letter of the board rules.

Now,  If someone wishes to CFR one of the specific examples, I will be happy to link to where in the blog series I specifically addressed ti, or post the statistical studies here. That, too, should suffice.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[ALarson]

Quoting Wade (From california boy's reposting):

Quote

However, as homosexuals have received state sanction for their relationships (first through domestic partnerships and later through radically redefining "marriage"),, thus effectively normalizing them,  and saw a remarkable increase in public acceptance (now the majority opinion), and celebration of their orientation, they have seen a marked increase in STD's,  AIDS, gay-related illnesses and general physical unwellness,

CFR, Wade for the part I put in bold from your quote. @Wade Englund

I really am interested to see if you have documented statistics supporting that claim.

(I'm going to try to unblock you to see your response....I really don't like having anyone on block anyway....)

Edited May 2, 2019 by ALarson