Changing people's minds/perceptions about God

[Duncan]

I remember as a Teenager going to visit this lady with someone else and she told us she wasn't active, didn't read scripture, pray because she thought that she had done too many bad stuff in the past and in her mind God had all these plans for her but because of whatever she did, God couldn't or wouldn't bless her with any of that anymore, as if God had moved on. To that end why bother doing all these things if God wasn't interested in her anymore. I had no clue what to say to her. Let's forget getting her back to church but how what do you say to people who think that God has given up on them and blew all these plans he had for them? To me it was a real sadness and an emptiness that seemed to affect her daily living, i.e. not going to church, reading, etc. things she used to do,

[Calm]

I have known a few people like that.  In each case there were other things going on in their life that indicated some significant depression.

I think you need to figure out what she is capable of dealing with and what are the roots of her low self worth.  That may not be possible.  The other thing is to show you do not give up on her and since God is much more forgiving than you are, why would God? (Though that can be countered by the reasoning that God knows her better than you do).  However, actions may penetrate where words and reason do not.  If she can learn to feel valued by you, that could open up other doors.  You have to accept though that even if you do everything perfectly (and of course you won't being human), that it may not have an effect.

edit:  kind of out of it today, spaced on the "when I was a teen" part.  Of course, you likely can't be with her now...but if you could, my sugesstion holds.  

Edited January 25, 2019 by Calm

[ksfisher]

13 minutes ago, Duncan said:

I remember as a Teenager going to visit this lady with someone else and she told us she wasn't active, didn't read scripture, pray because she thought that she had done too many bad stuff in the past and in her mind God had all these plans for her but because of whatever she did, God couldn't or wouldn't bless her with any of that anymore, as if God had moved on. To that end why bother doing all these things if God wasn't interested in her anymore. I had no clue what to say to her. Let's forget getting her back to church but how what do you say to people who think that God has given up on them and blew all these plans he had for them? To me it was a real sadness and an emptiness that seemed to affect her daily living, i.e. not going to church, reading, etc. things she used to do,

14 But Zion said, The Lord hath forsaken me, and my Lord hath forgotten me.
15 Can a woman forget her sucking child, that she should not have compassion on the son of her womb? yea, they may forget, yet will I not forget thee.
16 Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands; thy walls are continually before me.

Isaiah 49

[3DOP]

52 minutes ago, Duncan said:

I remember as a Teenager going to visit this lady with someone else and she told us she wasn't active, didn't read scripture, pray because she thought that she had done too many bad stuff in the past and in her mind God had all these plans for her but because of whatever she did, God couldn't or wouldn't bless her with any of that anymore, as if God had moved on. To that end why bother doing all these things if God wasn't interested in her anymore. I had no clue what to say to her. Let's forget getting her back to church but how what do you say to people who think that God has given up on them and blew all these plans he had for them? To me it was a real sadness and an emptiness that seemed to affect her daily living, i.e. not going to church, reading, etc. things she used to do,

Sad story to be sure. But no reason for despair. Duncan...you believe this...Jesus hung on the Cross...Sadly some think that their sins have gone beyond God's mercy. What to say? Nothing. It is okay to be silent unless we are gifted with some amazing insight...which is almost never...Unasked for advice is seldom heeded, and most often resented. Believe in prayer, with love. Wait for them to ask, and for God to work in hearts.

You aren't a teen anymore. What has happened in her soul? Are you the same? Is she?

3DOP

[Duncan]

2 minutes ago, 3DOP said:

Sad story to be sure. But no reason for despair. Duncan...you believe this...Jesus hung on the Cross...Sadly some think that their sins have gone beyond God's mercy. What to say? Nothing. It is okay to be silent unless we are gifted with some amazing insight...which is almost never...Unasked for advice is seldom heeded, and most often resented. Believe in prayer, with love. Wait for them to ask, and for God to work in hearts.

You aren't a teen anymore. What has happened in her soul? Are you the same? Is she?

3DOP

I haven't seen hide nor hair from her in years so I can't say what became of her

[Glenn101]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

I have known a few people like that.  In each case there were other things going on in their life that indicated some significant depression.

That came immediately to my mind also.Depression is a demon that can rob a person of hope and desire to keep going.

Glenn

[Robert F. Smith]

4 hours ago, Duncan said:

I remember as a Teenager going to visit this lady with someone else and she told us she wasn't active, didn't read scripture, pray because she thought that she had done too many bad stuff in the past and in her mind God had all these plans for her but because of whatever she did, God couldn't or wouldn't bless her with any of that anymore, as if God had moved on. To that end why bother doing all these things if God wasn't interested in her anymore. I had no clue what to say to her. Let's forget getting her back to church but how what do you say to people who think that God has given up on them and blew all these plans he had for them? To me it was a real sadness and an emptiness that seemed to affect her daily living, i.e. not going to church, reading, etc. things she used to do,

Sometimes people blame God and act as though he is the only prime mover, when that is nonsense.  We need to take responsibility for ourselves and for others.  We need to carefully evaluate whether we are mentally ill (ask a friend, or seek professional evaluation*), or simply have serious work to do.  Life is not an end in itself, but it is a process.  Life is a path with some unexpected ups and downs along the way which test our resolve.  It isn't a game which we win or lose, but rather a set of experiences from which we may learn some lessons -- some sweet, others bitter.  That is the nature of life.

* The bishop can send that person to LDS Family Services for evaluation (if requested), and one can seek psychological services at County Mental Health offices.  Sometimes group therapy is called for.  Other times, something more serious.  Those with clinical depression need more than a casual self-evaluation.  They need serious psychiatric treatment.

Edited January 25, 2019 by Robert F. Smith

[Calm]

10 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

We need to carefully evaluate whether we are mentally ill, or simply have serious work to do. 

Careful evaluation is often impossible when there is mental or emotional illness.  

Your choice of wording troubles me because telling someone they have control over themselves when they do not can make things worse...it sounds similar to telling someone who is depressed or have severe social anxiety order they just need to grit their teeth and work through it and their problems will resolve which often ignores that it is a neurochemical issue or that "gritting teeth" just ends up reinforcing the disorder, if severe as opposed to desensitizing someone, even though I get you are saying someone should evaluate whether or not they need medical assistance, etc. 

This is not to say excuses should be accepted and we should treat mentally ill people as children, but we need to be realistic about what can be expected.  

How we speak of mental and emotional disorders is very important so we do not make things worse.  When people are already having problems of self worth, it is so easy to interpret what people mean as encouragement as accusations or proof one is just lazy, stupid, a burden, etc.

Edited January 25, 2019 by Calm

[Robert F. Smith]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

Careful evaluation is often impossible when there is mental or emotional illness.  

Your choice of wording troubles me because telling someone they have control over themselves when they do not can make things worse...it sounds similar to telling someone who is depressed or have severe social anxiety order they just need to grit their teeth and work through it and their problems will resolve which often ignores that it is a neurochemical issue or that "gritting teeth" just ends up reinforcing the disorder, if severe as opposed to desensitizing someone, even though I get you are saying someone should evaluate whether or not they need medical assistance, etc. 

This is not to say excuses should be accepted and we should treat mentally ill people as children, but we need to be realistic about what can be expected.  

How we speak of mental and emotional disorders is very important so we do not make things worse.  When people are already having problems of self worth, it is so easy to interpret what people mean as encouragement as accusations or proof one is just lazy, stupid, a burden, etc.

You are correct, Calm, and I have edited my post to make that clear.

[Calm]

Thanks...got a lot of history with this, so I am sensitive.