Non-LDS Experts in Archeology and Egyptology

[Ouagadougou]

1 hour ago, Duncan said:

i said that in the beginning, should we count this as number six for your deflections? 

What are you talking about? This wasn't even a reply to you...so it clearly isn't a "deflection." Haha now you are just making yourself look desperate...

[The Nehor]

2 minutes ago, Ouagadougou said:

Google WWII.  Done.

That is not how the CFR works here. Not done.

[The Nehor]

1 minute ago, Ouagadougou said:

What are you talking about? This wasn't even a reply to you...so it clearly isn't a "deflection." Haha now you are just making yourself look desperate...

Are you suggesting that it cannot be a deflection if the person pointing it out is not directly involved? You are nuttier then what your avatar eats.

[Ouagadougou]

1 hour ago, Spammer said:

Since Vietnam does exist and a real war happened there, it’s not unreasonable for a person who sees the movie to ask whether the fanciful Gump stories are based on a real person. Someone looking to defend faith in Gump can rely on more than personal testimony. He can point to a real Vietnam War. 

Yep...all the wars in the BoM in which millions died are yet to be found...simply vanished without a trace...

[Ouagadougou]

2 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

That is not how the CFR works here. Not done.

https://www.britannica.com/event/World-War-II

[The Nehor]

4 minutes ago, Ouagadougou said:

On the lack of scientific evidence to substantiate the historicity of the BoM and BoA...not on wam and good feelings.

 

[The Nehor]

Just now, Ouagadougou said:

https://www.britannica.com/event/World-War-II

Where in that article does it establish your Nazi status? A quick search for your user name in the text turned up nothing.

[Ouagadougou]

1 minute ago, The Nehor said:

Are you suggesting that it cannot be a deflection if the person pointing it out is not directly involved? You are nuttier then what your avatar eats.

I said thanks to someone else and he interjects himself in to for no reason....

[Kevin Christensen]

1 minute ago, Ouagadougou said:

And who pays Sorenson?  

Good grief.

Try again, and this time address the evidence.  Don't just distract from a large body of evidence and documentation by slapping an insinuation of corruption on one of the several professionals I mention.   It's in the relevance and accuracy level of Trump claiming Mueller's investigation consists of angry witch hunting democrats.

If Coe, for instance, makes an unjustified claim, say, his claim that the Book of Mormon cannot be correct because it does not reflect the Mesoamerican concern with a Mother Goddess, I found that more effective and relevant to point to specific evidence that he overlooked in the Book of Mormon. So I can cite essays by Daniel Peterson, by Hugh Nibley, and a 1998 essay by yours truly that demonstrate that he was wrong.  I cannot just say, "Who pays Coe?" and pose.

Kevin Christensen

Canonsburg, PA

[Ouagadougou]

Just now, The Nehor said:

Where in that article does it establish your Nazi status? A quick search for your user name in the text turned up nothing.

I already provided you with enough info. Done.

[Ouagadougou]

Just now, Kevin Christensen said:

Good grief.

Try again, and this time address the evidence.  Don't just distract from a large body of evidence and documentation by slapping an insinuation of corruption on one of the several professionals I mention.   It's in the relevance and accuracy level of Trump claiming Mueller's investigation consists of angry witch hunting democrats.

If Coe, for instance, makes an unjustified claim, say, his claim that the Book of Mormon cannot be correct because it does not reflect the Mesoamerican concern with a Mother Goddess, I found that more effective and relevant to point to specific evidence that he overlooked in the Book of Mormon. So I can cite essays by Daniel Peterson, by Hugh Nibley, and a 1998 essay by yours truly that demonstrate that he was wrong.  I cannot just say, "Who pays Coe?" and pose.

Kevin Christensen

Canonsburg, PA

My original question was "non-LDS" experts.  

[The Nehor]

Just now, Ouagadougou said:

I said thanks to someone else and he interjects himself in to for no reason....

Awwww.....poor baby. Did you imagine you were having a private conversation immune to scrutiny on a public message board?

[The Nehor]

4 minutes ago, Ouagadougou said:

I already provided you with enough info. Done.

You have provided nothing. So you surrender and admit you might be Nazi? Why did you not just say that in the first place? Some people..........

Have you picked up on the irony thing I am doing yet? I am trying to make it more and more blatant and I am not sure how much further I can go. Do you think a video presentation explaining it with sock puppets would help?

Edited November 28, 2018 by The Nehor

[hope_for_things]

1 hour ago, Kevin Christensen said:

Speaking of language in the Americas, does this fit your definition of nothing?  Brian Stubbs, Changes in Language from Nephi to Now.

https://www.amazon.com/Changes-Languages-Nephi-Brian-Stubbs/dp/0991474112/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1543435780&sr=1-1&refinements=p_27%3ABrian+Stubbs

I've read several of Stubb's earlier essays, and I'd be reluctant to make such absolute pronouncements unless I had a good grasp of his work.

FWIW

Kevin Christensen

Canonsburg, PA

 

I haven't read this no, thanks for the link.  Just as question as it looks like this book was self published, and I'm wondering if any of his research has been peer reviewed in any academic journals?  

[Maestrophil]

33 minutes ago, Ouagadougou said:

On the lack of scientific evidence to substantiate the historicity of the BoM and BoA...not on wam and good feelings.

Thanks for your un-testimony.  So again, what are you looking for here?  Slam-dunk scientific proof of the BOM, of God, of an afterlife?  If so, I suggest you just move on.  Those answers are not available.

[Robert F. Smith]

17 hours ago, Ouagadougou said:

Are there any non-LDS (not paid by the church) archeologists who maintain/support the BoM being a historical, ancient text?

Likewise, are there any non-LDS (not paid by the church) egyptologists who accept Joseph Smith's translation of the BoA as legitimate? 

Since non-LDS archeologists and Egyptologists do not generally read the Book of Mormon or Book of Abraham, there are none who are likely to define them as "legitimate," whatever that means.  Since this is a very controversial matter, it is not safe for most academically respectable figures to speak in favor of either book, though that has happened.  What is far more germane is to compare actual standard scholarship on archeology and Egyptology with the contents of those books.  That tends to raise the discussion to a much higher level than the usual "tis so, tis not" approach which is most common.  As it turns out, when looked at through scholarly eyes, the Book of Abraham is quite respectable:  See my “A Brief Assessment of the LDS Book of Abraham,” version 9 online Feb 20, 2018, online at http://www.scribd.com/doc/118810727/A-Brief-Assessment-of-the-LDS-Book-of-Abraham .

17 hours ago, Ouagadougou said:

Are there any organizations outside the LDS Church that support/maintain the historicity of either the BoM or BoA?  

Only Book of Mormon believing groups (Restoration groups/churches) have such organizations.  See, for example, www.bomf.org , which is based in Missouri.

[california boy]

25 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Since non-LDS archeologists and Egyptologists do not generally read the Book of Mormon or Book of Abraham, there are none who are likely to define them as "legitimate," whatever that means.  Since this is a very controversial matter, it is not safe for most academically respectable figures to speak in favor of either book, though that has happened.  What is far more germane is to compare actual standard scholarship on archeology and Egyptology with the contents of those books.  That tends to raise the discussion to a much higher level than the usual "tis so, tis not" approach which is most common.  As it turns out, when looked at through scholarly eyes, the Book of Abraham is quite respectable:  See my “A Brief Assessment of the LDS Book of Abraham,” version 9 online Feb 20, 2018, online at http://www.scribd.com/doc/118810727/A-Brief-Assessment-of-the-LDS-Book-of-Abraham .

Only Book of Mormon believing groups (Restoration groups/churches) have such organizations.  See, for example, www.bomf.org , which is based in Missouri.

I hesitate to get involved in these kinds of discussion.  I see little value in tearing down another person's faith.  But I will strongly disagree with your argument.  Do you remember the excitement over the Dead Sea Scrolls?  Do you remember the years of countless scholars pouring over every single fragment of those scrolls for decades all because they were some of the oldest copies of the Old Testament scriptures as well as other significant insights into writings and beliefs thousands of years ago ever to be found?

Now we have a claim that a papyrus WRITTEN BY THE HAND OF ABRAHAM HIMSELF has been discovered.  Forget Joseph Smith's claims of being able to translate that papyrus or validating the Book of Abraham.  Would not there be just as big of excitement to research such a document by world scholars?  Writings by Abraham himself that expand on what the world knows of him and that time period.  Yet you don't expect anyone but Mormon scholars to be interested?  In all fairness, I don't think non-LDS scholars are ignoring the exploration of these scrolls because of the religious content.  They just find no credible evidence that they are what some claim them to be.

[Duncan]

1 hour ago, Ouagadougou said:

On the lack of scientific evidence to substantiate the historicity of the BoM and BoA...not on wam and good feelings.

"wam" feelings? Does anybody know if they installed computers in the puzzle academy?

[Ouagadougou]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

You have provided nothing. So you surrender and admit you might be Nazi? Why did you not just say that in the first place? Some people..........

Have you picked up on the irony thing I am doing yet? I am trying to make it more and more blatant and I am not sure how much further I can go. Do you think a video presentation explaining it with sock puppets would help?

From your point of view it shouldn't because I can tell you and you should be able to "feel through the spirit" that this is not the case...just goes off your feelings.  

[Ouagadougou]

1 hour ago, Maestrophil said:

Thanks for your un-testimony.  So again, what are you looking for here?  Slam-dunk scientific proof of the BOM, of God, of an afterlife?  If so, I suggest you just move on.  Those answers are not available.

You are welcome.  I think at least ANY scientific proof is reasonable for people today, but, IMO, I just don't see anything the supports the narrative. 

[Duncan]

1 hour ago, Ouagadougou said:

What are you talking about? This wasn't even a reply to you...so it clearly isn't a "deflection." Haha now you are just making yourself look desperate...

you responded to someone else and you said , "Finally, someone who gave me an actual answer.  Thank you."

which translates into 'no one gave me an answer until now' and then I responded saying yes, I said that in the beginning. Do you know how conversations work or what?

deflection #6! and counting! do you want me to explain what that means also?

[Ouagadougou]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

Awwww.....poor baby. Did you imagine you were having a private conversation immune to scrutiny on a public message board?

No...just the words "thank you" to someone else is laughable to call a deflection.  

[Ouagadougou]

1 minute ago, Duncan said:

you responded to someone else and you said , "Finally, someone who gave me an actual answer.  Thank you."

which translates into 'no one gave me an answer until now' and then I responded saying yes, I said that in the beginning. Do you know how conversations work or what?

deflection #6! and counting! do you want me to explain what that means also?

You just want to be important and not left out?  Ok...you responded back to me as well.  Here is your gold star...

[Ouagadougou]

1 hour ago, Kevin Christensen said:

Good grief.

Try again, and this time address the evidence.  Don't just distract from a large body of evidence and documentation by slapping an insinuation of corruption on one of the several professionals I mention.   It's in the relevance and accuracy level of Trump claiming Mueller's investigation consists of angry witch hunting democrats.

If Coe, for instance, makes an unjustified claim, say, his claim that the Book of Mormon cannot be correct because it does not reflect the Mesoamerican concern with a Mother Goddess, I found that more effective and relevant to point to specific evidence that he overlooked in the Book of Mormon. So I can cite essays by Daniel Peterson, by Hugh Nibley, and a 1998 essay by yours truly that demonstrate that he was wrong.  I cannot just say, "Who pays Coe?" and pose.

Kevin Christensen

Canonsburg, PA

Nibley, Peterson, and Sorenson - all paid by the church.  

"Similarly, members of Lehi's family may have applied loanwords to certain animal species that they encountered for the first time in the New World, such as the Mesoamerican tapir. While some species of tapir are rather small, the Mesoamerican variety (tapiris bairdii) can grow to be nearly six and a half feet in length and can weigh more than six hundred pounds."

https://www.fairmormon.org/answers/Question:_Do_Mormon_apologists_claim_that_the_horse_referred_to_in_the_Book_of_Mormon_is_actually_a_deer_or_tapir%3F

And this is the alternative they suggest might be possible? This is an absolute joke...

 

 

 

[Ouagadougou]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

Where in that article does it establish your Nazi status? A quick search for your user name in the text turned up nothing.

I bear you a testimony that I am not...now...go and "feel" through the spirit that this is true.