"What does it mean that this is the true Church?"

[MiserereNobis]

1 hour ago, Bernard Gui said:

What do you think of the current attempts to remove Pope Francis? Do you give sustaining votes to your leaders?

I asked this somewhere and I don't think I got an answer or the answer got lost in the threads. Is there a procedure to remove the president of the LDS church? Can the other apostles depose him, so to speak?

[mfbukowski]

3 hours ago, Thinking said:

 

LOL- yes I know- I saw that when I posted it.

I was dictating the comment on my phone and I had to send it right THEN or it would not have gone out, and of course my autocorrect did not get it.... correct!  

I figured someone would catch it- good for you!! 

THAT is ONE BIG cannon!   Ear protection recommended. 

 

Edited September 3, 2018 by mfbukowski

[Truth2Tell]

On 9/1/2018 at 3:44 AM, Tacenda said:

Now that I read it two more times I see that my reply isn't the best.  

You are being very critical of yourself in all respects.  Apparently, your beliefs have not shored up your self-esteem.   I find that strange.  You seem ready to reach out and discover what is really out there in ways of paths to God,  but unable to do it because of fear and lack of belief in yourself and your ability to stand on your own and make your own decision.s  I am so sorry that you find yourself in this position.  It isn't right to be disabled by your beliefs.  God doesn't do that.

[mfbukowski]

16 minutes ago, Truth2Tell said:

You are being very critical of yourself in all respects.  Apparently, your beliefs have not shored up your self-esteem.   I find that strange.  You seem ready to reach out and discover what is really out there in ways of paths to God,  but unable to do it because of fear and lack of belief in yourself and your ability to stand on your own and make your own decision.s  I am so sorry that you find yourself in this position.  It isn't right to be disabled by your beliefs.  God doesn't do that.

How to win friends and influence people.

I am sure you and I will have a great time together.  

Yes this is sarcasm.

And God is not the author of pride either.  Oh yeah this is gonna be fun

 

 

Edited September 3, 2018 by mfbukowski

[mfbukowski]

1 hour ago, MiserereNobis said:

I asked this somewhere and I don't think I got an answer or the answer got lost in the threads. Is there a procedure to remove the president of the LDS church? Can the other apostles depose him, so to speak?

That is theoretically possible I suppose.

It would overthrow tradition but if there was a VERY good reason to do so I am sure it would happen.

Reasons might be major apostasy, immoral behavior, just wacky stuff being said etc- showing dementia etc.   He would probably ask to "retire" in a case like that and another- the next in line most likely would be called.

None of what I said is doctrine- it is just my personal best guess.

[Truth2Tell]

5 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

Oh yeah this is gonna be fun

Some people are so easily amused.

[mfbukowski]

1 minute ago, Truth2Tell said:

Some people are so easily amused.

😀

[Bernard Gui]

On 9/2/2018 at 6:07 PM, Navidad said:

Mormon exceptionalism is the huge blind spot of mainstream Mormonism in this day. I hope and pray every day (no exaggeration) that soon an LDS prophet will overcome this and welcome me and other Christians in the words of the great invitational hymn "Just as I am."

Offensive as it may sound, it is true. It all hinges on Priesthood authority. I highly doubt any LDS prophet would renounce his own authority or abandon all the foundational doctrines of the Church in order for it to become more popular. He would also have to renounce the Book of Mormon. Not going to happen.

 

Edited September 4, 2018 by Bernard Gui

[Navidad]

Just now, Bernard Gui said:

Offensive as it may be, it is true. It all hinges on Priesthood authority. I highly doubt any LDS prophet would renounce his own authority in favor of the Church becoming more popular. 

 

Sorry my friend - it all hinges on Christ's authority. And, the purpose is not to become more popular; that is a significant misrepresentation of what I am saying. I would hope a LDS prophet would renounce anything that would help the church; like has been done in the past. I agree it is a stretch, but since the priesthood authority is never clearly stated in the New Testament or in the Book of Mormon, it might not be impossible. There may be a reason why only LDS claim that only LDS have priesthood authority!

[Bernard Gui]

2 hours ago, Navidad said:

Sorry my friend - it all hinges on Christ's authority. And, the purpose is not to become more popular; that is a significant misrepresentation of what I am saying. I would hope a LDS prophet would renounce anything that would help the church; like has been done in the past. I agree it is a stretch, but since the priesthood authority is never clearly stated in the New Testament or in the Book of Mormon, it might not be impossible. There may be a reason why only LDS claim that only LDS have priesthood authority!

We’ll have to disagree. Surely given your experience with our Church you understand that Priesthood authority (given to the Joseph Smith directly by ancient apostles under the direction of the Lord) is at the very foundation of the Church. That is directly in conflict with the authority claims of the Catholic Church and by extension, Protestantism. You are asking the LDS Church to renounce it’s reason for being for the purpose of getting more members (becoming more popular). Surely you know that. You are quite mistaken to claim that priesthood authority is not clearly stated in the Book of Mormon. It is an explicit and on-going theme throughout the book including the most complete exposition on the Melchizedek priesthood in all scripture and culminates in the ordination of officers in the Church organized by Jesus when he visited the Nephites. Surely you know that. 

Edited September 4, 2018 by Bernard Gui

[Bernard Gui]

7 hours ago, Jeanne said:

I know it is hard to understand my thinking.  But we are all able to receive personal revelation and faith in that revelation.  With prayer we can heal many things...as earlier women did in your church in early days.  Why would a priesthood be withheld from any of us who continue to grow and understand the Savior as we live accordingly. ?

It is hard to understand this thinking. How would we even know about church or Priesthood apart from revelation? Do you have any scriptural evidence to support your position or is this revelation you have received personally?

[mfbukowski]

2 hours ago, Navidad said:

Sorry my friend - it all hinges on Christ's authority. And, the purpose is not to become more popular; that is a significant misrepresentation of what I am saying. I would hope a LDS prophet would renounce anything that would help the church; like has been done in the past. I agree it is a stretch, but since the priesthood authority is never clearly stated in the New Testament or in the Book of Mormon, it might not be impossible. There may be a reason why only LDS claim that only LDS have priesthood authority!

I honestly do not understand why you care so much

It should not concern you, it's not your church. It's like me wanting the Mennonites to understand the priesthood and make me a priest in the Mennonite faith.

It just seems odd.

You have your beliefs we have ours. And we are not Sola scriptura. Our church is not based wholly on scripture alone and you are simply wrong that's not scriptural.

We believe in ongoing Revelation. The Bible is not the end of Revelation.

You are excluding Doctrine and Covenants from our Canon and overlooking Old Testament references to the Melchizedek priesthood.

Edited September 4, 2018 by mfbukowski

[Navidad]

10 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

I honestly do not understand why you care so much

It should not concern you, it's not your church. It's like me wanting the Mennonites to understand the priesthood and make me a priest in the Mennonite faith.

It just seems odd.

You have your beliefs we have ours. And we are not Sola scriptura. Our church is not based wholly on scripture alone and you are simply wrong that's not scriptural.

We believe in ongoing Revelation. The Bible is not the end of Revelation.

You are excluding Doctrine and Covenants from our Canon and overlooking Old Testament references to the Melchizedek priesthood.

Hi amigo - I have said before I don't always explain things well and often in so doing I use too many words. Why does this concern me? Why do I care so much? Why do I ask so many questions when it seems I get the same answers and then I keep asking again. . . . . Why have I spent most of my free time and money for the last almost thirty years studying, buying LDS books on their history and their doctrine? Well, through several personal relationships I was introduced to this non-mainstream Christian faith. It fascinated me. I knew of it as a cult. I thought its members though were wonderful people. The two didn't jive. In my usual fashion I dug in, studied and read everything I could. I got to the point where the highest ranking manager in the Church History department told me one day that I understood the nuances of LDS history and perspectives better than any non-Mormon he had ever worked with. What a nice thing to say . . . . however I still didn't understand, so I kept asking questions and studying. Why? Because it appears your truth claims hold the power (authority) over my eternal life, that of my family, that of my Christian friends, and that of every other Christian and non-Christian in the world. I have heard and read such outlandish claims of authority that I couldn't believe they were really real. Then one LDS friend or another, perhaps a professor, scholar, or just acquaintance would confide in me, "many of us don't really believe we hold the keys to eternal life." Many of us don't really truly no-kidding hold the same understanding as the more conservative of our brethren. So then, I get confused again. What does the majority of the LDS faith believe about this issue of them being the "only true and living church," that without LDS ordinances there is no hope of practicing the presence of God and Jesus Christ for eternity. Forget exaltation; I couldn't care less. But I want to live with my Savior and my God for eternity - yes I do-- that is why I care so much. So, I am forced into a decision-making. Are these claims of sole ultimate God-given authority the truth or are they gross exaggeration - basically untrue? That question is why I care. I have studied theology and faith and world religions since I was 10 sitting in my father's library at home. Sometimes I sat there because that is where he always was; it was the only way to know him. But, I digress. 

If Mormons are correct they are the sole and only holders of the keys to eternal life (using that term in an LDS context), as opposed to keys to immortality. "Oh, Phil you are guaranteed immortality" You are already up to the Terrestial level!" Don't worry. Sorry, I want to live with God and my Lord and Savior forever. I have decided 27 times Mormons are nuts; but then I keep coming back to the hope that you don't really really really mean what you say, you don't really believe such an outrageous truth. And then of course, I go to a conference and a holder of the LDS priesthood listens to me and confides - "Only 30% of Mormons hold temple cards. There is a new Mormon history. We respect our leaders and our faith and our families (mostly our mothers) so we don't rock the boat." Then I read that the Leaders will never lead the Church astray - 14 points on how to be loyal to the Prophet. They do sound culty to me.  I read them, we discuss them in elder's quorum, yes I go regularly to ward. Where better to learn the truth? Then a high priest or two confides in me "I don't agree with that or this or the other." Ok....Then the church prophet spends hundreds of thousands of dollars on fake Mark Hoffman documents, people get killed, but the leader "will never lead the church astray!" I keep digging.  Why do I care, because this is about my wife's eternal life, my eternal life, and that of all Christians everywhere. I am close to saying you are all "nuts" but I now care so much about my LDS friends that is hard too. They (my LDS friends) so want us to "believe" to repent and be baptized. When I tell them I have repented and have been baptized - even by immersion, they roll their eyes and sigh. One last thing, I want to make really clear. You are wrong in what you wrote last night. Your priesthood claims are not just yours; by making them exclusive,  you make them every other Christian's. And your claims deal with eternal life, not just church membership. I think you are looking at is as the latter not the former which confuses me even more. You blithely say "You have your beliefs we have ours." What a strange comment from someone who claims to have exclusive authority through his ordinances over every other person in the world. I suppose you do temple work, right? If "you have your beliefs and we have ours" why do you spend hours doing sealings, endowments, and baptisms unless your really believe that they are efficacious and necessary? Why do you "care so much, might be a good question."  If this were simply a church membership requirement, that would be easy. But I know of no other group who makes what are normally church membership requirements (classes, re-baptism, etc.) into tests for eternal life with God. Too many words, I hope I have helped you and your fellow Saints on this board understand why I care so much.

[mfbukowski]

5 hours ago, Navidad said:

 . . . . Why have I spent most of my free time and money for the last almost thirty years studying, buying LDS books on their history and their doctrine? Well, through several personal relationships I was introduced to this non-mainstream Christian faith. It fascinated me. I knew of it as a cult. I thought its members though were wonderful people. The two didn't jive. In my usual fashion I dug in, studied and read everything I could. I got to the point where the highest ranking manager in the Church History department told me one day that I understood the nuances of LDS history and perspectives better than any non-Mormon he had ever worked with. What a nice thing to say . . . . however I still didn't understand, so I kept asking questions and studying. Why? Because it appears your truth claims hold the power (authority) over my eternal life, that of my family, that of my Christian friends, and that of every other Christian and non-Christian in the world. I have heard and read such outlandish claims of authority that I couldn't believe they were really real. Then one LDS friend or another, perhaps a professor, scholar, or just acquaintance would confide in me, "many of us don't really believe we hold the keys to eternal life." Many of us don't really truly no-kidding hold the same understanding as the more conservative of our brethren. So then, I get confused again. What does the majority of the LDS faith believe about this issue of them being the "only true and living church," that without LDS ordinances there is no hope of practicing the presence of God and Jesus Christ for eternity. Forget exaltation; I couldn't care less. But I want to live with my Savior and my God for eternity - yes I do-- that is why I care so much. So, I am forced into a decision-making. Are these claims of sole ultimate God-given authority the truth or are they gross exaggeration - basically untrue? That question is why I care. I have studied theology and faith and world religions since I was 10 sitting in my father's library at home. Sometimes I sat there because that is where he always was; it was the only way to know him.....

Thanks for your long and heart-felt reply-  I am grateful for your concern about these issues and our feeling of friendship.

We are the same age exactly. Those "big" birthdays are hard to take especially when they start with a 7 or 8

I understand what it is like to study for answers for 55 years on a continuous basis because I have done the same thing myself.  I understand that these are the most important questions of your life, because they are also the most important questions of mine as well.  I know what it is like to LIVE literally to find these answers, and for these being the most important things in our minds from the time we wake until the time we go back to bed.  Of course our days are filled with routine, but always lurking in our minds, the questions and solutions keep percolating!   Routine work can become almost a blessing because we have more time to think while our bodies work on "autopilot" 

I have thought particularly about this question myself, obviously, since I have been now in this church nearly 40 years

Let me give you my understanding.

I take a very pragmatic approach to this question.  What worked for me was first thinking about LDS truth claims relative to other Christian groups.  What if they were correct??  What difference would it make for my eternal progression and that of my family?

The first part was seeing what the beliefs actually were, obviously and the PRACTICAL consequences of NOT believing them or taking them into my life?  Above, you said this as perhaps the most important sentence of your post as I see it: (underlining inserted)

Quote

...that without LDS ordinances there is no hope of practicing the presence of God and Jesus Christ for eternity. Forget exaltation; I couldn't care less.

But that is NOT LDS doctrine!  Section 76 says this about those in the terrestrial kingdom:

Quote

 

5 These are they who are honorable men of the earth, who were blinded by the craftiness of men.

76 These are they who receive of his glory, but not of his fulness.

77 These are they who receive of the presence of the Son, but not of the fulness of the Father.

 

So even without LDS ordinances one could still receive the  "presence of the Son" in the most conservative interpretation.  So you and your family- without any changes in your lives, and presuming you are following the tenets of being a Mennonite- you would STILL have the "presence of ... Jesus Christ for eternity"- to paraphrase your underlined quote above, but not the "fullness of the Father"

So what do you "get" if you stay as you are AND the LDS has the perfect revelation of the truth as it is?

You still "get" the "presence of the Son"  AND some kind of contact or experience of the Father, but not his "fullness"

Do you understand that?  Even the most conservative literal statement is that YOU DO GET the presence of the Son for eternity if you stay as you are now- and of course that includes your family as well.

But as they say on game shows "BUT THAT'S NOT ALL!!"

IF you enter the spirit world as a Mennonite what will happen according to our most conservative beliefs?  You will be in a place of happiness where you will meet missionaries- and you will still have a remembrance of all your studies here!  It will be AS IF TODAY you are in the presence of spirits - angels if you will- preaching the further Gospel of Jesus Christ, but NOW there is no doubt at least that there IS an afterlife!   And if they are speaking of Jesus Christ- then at least they are not speaking of Ahura Mazda or some other god- so you know that so far, you are at least a believer on the "right side"- and that Christianity is true, or at least the belief in Jesus is true.

So you know you will have the "presence of Jesus" at least.   Phew.  You are half way there, and here come the Mormon missionary angels who can actually TESTIFY to you of what they now KNOW WITHOUT A DOUBT that the "church is true" including all the priesthood claims etc.

So IF then you decide to follow them and do what they say- knowing all you know now and a LOT more about the afterlife BECAUSE YOU ARE THERE, you will have that opportunity to follow the path to the "fullness of the Father".

But do the most conservative Mormons believe this?

Of course.

You will know you can be "on track" to reach exaltation PRECISELY BECAUSE we do "temple sealings".

The dead are sealed in the temple to receive ALL the possible benefits of exaltation!  And do you have to be "Mormon" while you are alive to get these blessings?

NO!!

Why would we do work for the dead if- to paraphrase Paul- the dead do not rise ??

All the time and expense of building temples, all the efforts of members are done for a REASON and the reason for that is that YOU will have the opportunity to evaluate the case of the church's "truth" WHILE you are actually on the other side!  You can listen to the missionaries or not- you can THEN decide.

So if we are right- the worst that happens to you if you keel over in two minutes - is that you will have the presence of Jesus and some kind of interaction with the Father but not his "fullness"- but that's not all!!    You will also still be on track to be exalted and sealed to your family IF you feel it is right for you, or we would not have temples for that purpose- they are all built for YOU and people like you who have not fully understood the gospel here.

IF we are right- virtually everyone "will see the light", and at least we know that everyone will at least acknowledge Jesus Christ as their savior- except for a VERY FEW who are able to look into his face and yet refuse Him.   How many people would do that?

Anyway- back to your post--

Don't worry about it!!  You will have an ample opportunity to have all your questions and doubts resolved and you will receive the reward that the Lord judges you as being the BEST for you.

If indeed you do not WANT exaltation- that will be your decision of course.

Relax.  God loves you and your family and He is eternally merciful and he knows your sincerity - as he knows every desire of your heart.

Follow the spirit within you and God will direct you to where you need to be!

Quote

 

18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

 

 

Edited September 4, 2018 by mfbukowski

[pogi]

6 hours ago, Navidad said:

Because it appears your truth claims hold the power (authority) over my eternal life, that of my family, that of my Christian friends, and that of every other Christian and non-Christian in the world.

I truly don't understand how any other Christian faith is different.  The Catholic Church claims the same authority, and requires membership in the church for Salvation.  Their truth claims hold the power over my eternal life.  Other's hold truth claims that the Bible holds all authority.  They claim that their interpretation of the Bible holds power (authority) over the eternal life of man.  As far as I can tell, Mennonite's are similar to Evangelicals in that all you need to do is receive Christ into your life as Lord and Savior.  That is also a truth claim that holds power (authority) over the eternal life of all men.  Is there a Christian church out there who doesn't profess truth claims which have power (authority) over eternal life?  I don't think there are.  Our truth claims are probably the most liberal out there, so I truly don't understand your concern.   

Think of it from an outsider (non-Christian) perspective.  which authoritative truth claim about salvation would appear most "crazy" from a non-Christian perspective?  Imagine that these non-members find belief and are converted to Christ.  Let's say these believers/searchers of truth, start asking questions about their dead siblings, parents, and ancestors who died without knowing Christ.  Which truth claim doesn't sound authoritative?  But more importantly, which truth claim has the most answers and is the most merciful 1) Sorry, your ancestors never accepted Jesus in this life and will go to hell (Protestants).  2) Your ancestors might have mysteriously become members of the church without their knowing in this life, and thus might be saved.  We just don't know (Catholic).   3) Your ancestors will have the opportunity to learn of Jesus and accept baptism in the next life if they never had the opportunity in this life.  There is no mystery.  They are not doomed to hell for something that was out of their control, but they will find a degree of glory in the next life at the bare minimum and will have the opportunity of the fullness of all the Father has to offer.  It is their choice, and you can have the opportunity to perform the ordinances for your ancestors via proxy baptism (as was practiced in Biblical times) and give them the opportunity that they never had in this life to accept Jesus Christ through baptism.  You have the opportunity to serve your ancestors and do not have to reject them as damned souls (Mormons).  If your truth claim is something other than what I listed, or better than what I have listed, please share. Either way, it will be a truth claim that holds power (authority) over the eternal life of man - no different in that respect, from us. 

 

Edited September 4, 2018 by pogi

[strappinglad]

A thought just came to mind and instead of brushing it off I will present it here .  Who would not want to fullness of the Father for ever? Who would not want to be exalted to the highest degree? Well, with great knowledge comes great responsibility. Not everyone wants to be " in charge ". If this life is a shadow of the eternities, then there are quite a few folks who are fine with being responsible for just themselves and maybe a couple of family members. Do they want the perks of absolute power but not the requirements for the use thereof? The Book of Abraham speaks of many levels of intelligence with Christ/God being the most intelligent of them all. ( It is debatable whether that means the top level or more intelligent than all the others combined ) The D&C suggests that intelligence is a product that is attainable and can be added to. I suppose that , given enough time, each of us would grow a lot, but is there a limit to our desires?

[mfbukowski]

On 9/4/2018 at 8:56 AM, Navidad said:

Hi amigo - I have said before I don't always explain things well and often in so doing I use too many words. Why does this concern me? Why do I care so much? Why do I ask so many questions when it seems I get the same answers and then I keep asking again. . . . . Why have I spent most of my free time and money for the last almost thirty years studying, buying LDS books on their history and their doctrine? Well, through several personal relationships I was introduced to this non-mainstream Christian faith. It fascinated me. I knew of it as a cult. I thought its members though were wonderful people. The two didn't jive. In my usual fashion I dug in, studied and read everything I could. I got to the point where the highest ranking manager in the Church History department told me one day that I understood the nuances of LDS history and perspectives better than any non-Mormon he had ever worked with. What a nice thing to say . . . . however I still didn't understand, so I kept asking questions and studying. Why? Because it appears your truth claims hold the power (authority) over my eternal life, that of my family, that of my Christian friends, and that of every other Christian and non-Christian in the world. I have heard and read such outlandish claims of authority that I couldn't believe they were really real. Then one LDS friend or another, perhaps a professor, scholar, or just acquaintance would confide in me, "many of us don't really believe we hold the keys to eternal life." Many of us don't really truly no-kidding hold the same understanding as the more conservative of our brethren. So then, I get confused again. What does the majority of the LDS faith believe about this issue of them being the "only true and living church," that without LDS ordinances there is no hope of practicing the presence of God and Jesus Christ for eternity. Forget exaltation; I couldn't care less. But I want to live with my Savior and my God for eternity - yes I do-- that is why I care so much. So, I am forced into a decision-making. Are these claims of sole ultimate God-given authority the truth or are they gross exaggeration - basically untrue? That question is why I care. I have studied theology and faith and world religions since I was 10 sitting in my father's library at home. Sometimes I sat there because that is where he always was; it was the only way to know him. But, I digress. 

If Mormons are correct they are the sole and only holders of the keys to eternal life (using that term in an LDS context), as opposed to keys to immortality. "Oh, Phil you are guaranteed immortality" You are already up to the Terrestial level!" Don't worry. Sorry, I want to live with God and my Lord and Savior forever. I have decided 27 times Mormons are nuts; but then I keep coming back to the hope that you don't really really really mean what you say, you don't really believe such an outrageous truth. And then of course, I go to a conference and a holder of the LDS priesthood listens to me and confides - "Only 30% of Mormons hold temple cards. There is a new Mormon history. We respect our leaders and our faith and our families (mostly our mothers) so we don't rock the boat." Then I read that the Leaders will never lead the Church astray - 14 points on how to be loyal to the Prophet. They do sound culty to me.  I read them, we discuss them in elder's quorum, yes I go regularly to ward. Where better to learn the truth? Then a high priest or two confides in me "I don't agree with that or this or the other." Ok....Then the church prophet spends hundreds of thousands of dollars on fake Mark Hoffman documents, people get killed, but the leader "will never lead the church astray!" I keep digging.  Why do I care, because this is about my wife's eternal life, my eternal life, and that of all Christians everywhere. I am close to saying you are all "nuts" but I now care so much about my LDS friends that is hard too. They (my LDS friends) so want us to "believe" to repent and be baptized. When I tell them I have repented and have been baptized - even by immersion, they roll their eyes and sigh. One last thing, I want to make really clear. You are wrong in what you wrote last night. Your priesthood claims are not just yours; by making them exclusive,  you make them every other Christian's. And your claims deal with eternal life, not just church membership. I think you are looking at is as the latter not the former which confuses me even more. You blithely say "You have your beliefs we have ours." What a strange comment from someone who claims to have exclusive authority through his ordinances over every other person in the world. I suppose you do temple work, right? If "you have your beliefs and we have ours" why do you spend hours doing sealings, endowments, and baptisms unless your really believe that they are efficacious and necessary? Why do you "care so much, might be a good question."  If this were simply a church membership requirement, that would be easy. But I know of no other group who makes what are normally church membership requirements (classes, re-baptism, etc.) into tests for eternal life with God. Too many words, I hope I have helped you and your fellow Saints on this board understand why I care so much.

You said

"If Mormons are correct they are the sole and only holders of the keys to eternal life (using that term in an LDS context), as opposed to keys to immortality. "Oh, Phil you are guaranteed immortality" You are already up to the Terrestial level!" Don't worry. Sorry, I want to live with God and my Lord and Savior forever. I have decided 27 times Mormons are nuts; but then I keep coming back to the hope that you don't really really really mean what you say, you don't really believe such an outrageous truth. "

Don't worry about it! 

In order to receive that blessing one must believe in it. You don't believe in it, and think it outrageous, so don't worry about it.

Just as you must believe in Jesus in order to benefit from his sacrifice you must believe in exaltation to be prepared to receive it if you are worthy.

You can't receive a blessing if you don't believe you can.