If you combine with another ward in your calling. ..

[Rain]

6 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

Bless you for taking it seriously. Lucky boys!

 

If there were no boys from the other ward, IMO, that leader should be released and you should have an assistant called from your ward. If the time comes when there are boys from both wards attending, each ward should provide a leader.

Through the 2 years there have been several times when that ward had no boys or we had no boys. Because the boys only have one year as a wolf, come in and out on their birthdays and because there are so few boys of that age in this area it just isn't uncommon to have no boys in our specific ward for a month or 2. So each ward leader would be released 1 or 2 times a year. Is this what you were thinking?

[Prof]

7 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

After decades of scouting experience,  I have come to believe the stake should be the troop and the wards should be patrols....it’s for the good of the boys, not the convenience of the leaders.

An integral part of the purposes and joys of scouting (and hopefully of whatever we have to replace it) is to run with a den, a pack, a patrol, a troop, not a couple of adults. Most boys are pack animals. A den, pack, patrol, or troop of one or two boys is unfair to the boys. It cannot give him that experience.

Agree 100%. About half the time I was in scouts, I was the only one in my den or patrol. Not much fun. No critical mass for games and such.

However, one summer the entire stake went to summer  camp together. It was a blast! We had enough people for games, campfires, etc. The was back in the day when we could go to camp on Sunday. We even held a sacrament meeting in camp!

I wish we would do more of that here now. Throughout the stake, we have troops of 2 or 3 active boys. We try to have outdoor activities on our own, but the best ones-the ones the boys like the most- are where several scoutmasters in the stake get together and organize an event that get a large group of boys involved!

[pogi]

Quote

 

Most Church activities are held at the ward level. However, local leaders are encouraged to hold periodic stake and multistake activities when these activities are better able to accomplish the purposes outlined in 13.1 ...

Stake and multistake activities are particularly beneficial for youth, young single adults, and women, especially in areas where there are few members or where members seldom associate in large groups. Well-planned stake and multistake activities can give members confidence in their Church membership and a wider circle of friendships.

The leaders who begin the process of planning stake and multistake activities are generally the stake Young Men, Young Women, and Relief Society presidencies.

 

This seems to condone what we are doing. They have called stake scout leaders to preside and coordinate all activities in conjunction with the youth and other ward leaders.  Every other week we meet as a stake for scouts.  We also meet as a ward YM's group every other week.  So, one week we meet on the ward level and work on Duty to God and other activities, and the next week we meet on the stake level for scouts.  It is "periodic" and seems to be encouraged where numbers are low.   

12 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

If you have an all-stake deacons quorum camp, for example, which deacons quorum presidency plans and presides over it? And if the answer doesn't include a deacons quorum presidency, where exactly are these young men exercising their keys and learning to lead/plan/act? What do their ministry efforts in their ward look like?

No, we don't have stake "deacons quorum camp", we have stake "scout" camp.  There is no stake "deacons quorum".  Deacons quorum presidencies are not responsible for planning scout camps.  That is not how scouts work.  The stake has been made into one scout troop, and it functions just like a scout troop would function on the ward level, with the same scout positions and responsibilities to lead, plan, etc.  There are no "keys" needed for the boys to preside in scouts. 

Edited August 22, 2018 by pogi

[Bernard Gui]

4 hours ago, Prof said:

Agree 100%. About half the time I was in scouts, I was the only one in my den or patrol. Not much fun. No critical mass for games and such.

However, one summer the entire stake went to summer  camp together. It was a blast! We had enough people for games, campfires, etc. The was back in the day when we could go to camp on Sunday. We even held a sacrament meeting in camp!

I wish we would do more of that here now. Throughout the stake, we have troops of 2 or 3 active boys. We try to have outdoor activities on our own, but the best ones-the ones the boys like the most- are where several scoutmasters in the stake get together and organize an event that get a large group of boys involved!

Yes. Another plus of larger groups.... they create a sense of belonging to an important movement larger than a small circle of friends in a neighborhood or ward. I grew up in a small ward that was 100 miles from the nearest ward. It was not until I went to BYU that I appreciated being part of a bigger cause. I was astounded by the thousands of kids at my first assembly in the Smith Fieldhouse.

Edited August 22, 2018 by Bernard Gui

[Bernard Gui]

1 hour ago, Rain said:

Through the 2 years there have been several times when that ward had no boys or we had no boys. Because the boys only have one year as a wolf, come in and out on their birthdays and because there are so few boys of that age in this area it just isn't uncommon to have no boys in our specific ward for a month or 2. So each ward leader would be released 1 or 2 times a year. Is this what you were thinking?

That changes things....with such frequent disruption, continuity becomes important for the boys. It would be good to get out the birthday lists and see what the next two years’ attendance looks like and plan accordingly. Getting all the leaders involved in the program together to discuss these things would be helpful. I’m sure you’ve done this already.

Edited August 22, 2018 by Bernard Gui

[Bernard Gui]

17 minutes ago, pogi said:

This seems to condone what we are doing. They have called stake scout leaders to preside and coordinate all activities in conjunction with the youth and other ward leaders.  Every other week we meet as a stake for scouts.  We also meet as a ward YM's group every other week.  So, one week we meet on the ward level and work on Duty to God and other activities, and the next week we meet on the stake level for scouts.  It is "periodic" and seems to be encouraged where numbers are low.   

No, we don't have stake "deacons quorum camp", we have stake "scout" camp.  There is no stake "deacons quorum".  Deacons quorum presidencies are not responsible for planning scout camps.  That is not how scouts work.  The stake has been made into one scout troop, and it functions just like a scout troop would function on the ward level, with the same scout positions and responsibilities to lead, plan, etc.  There are no "keys" needed for the boys to preside in scouts. 

Oh yeah. This makes perfect sense....flexibility when needed for the benefit of the Saints. Isn’t that the spirit of the new handbooks? 

[Bernard Gui]

1 hour ago, Prof said:

I wish we would do more of that here now. Throughout the stake, we have troops of 2 or 3 active boys. We try to have outdoor activities on our own, but the best ones-the ones the boys like the most- are where several scoutmasters in the stake get together and organize an event that get a large group of boys involved!

That’s part of the genius of what was formerly known as Scouting....boys having fun in small groups with their buddies and getting together with larger groups to feel part of a significant movement.

[nuclearfuels]

My Webelos Scout pack is a combination of boys from 3 wards and we have myself and two other adults.

One doesn't attend much due to work and health problems. I'm not angry about him not attending.

BSA and our Church are parting ways in December 2019.

The tricky pat I've foudn in this hybrid-cub scout program is getting compensated for expenses.

If I turn in a receipt, will the other wards compensate the mother ward according to the proportion of scouts divided by total cost?

I usually don't turn in receipts anyway and just buy treats on my own dime.

[Bernard Gui]

21 minutes ago, nuclearfuels said:

The tricky pat I've foudn in this hybrid-cub scout program is getting compensated for expenses.

If I turn in a receipt, will the other wards compensate the mother ward according to the proportion of scouts divided by total cost?

Reasonable people could get together and figure out a fair method.

[Rain]

3 hours ago, nuclearfuels said:

My Webelos Scout pack is a combination of boys from 3 wards and we have myself and two other adults.

One doesn't attend much due to work and health problems. I'm not angry about him not attending.

BSA and our Church are parting ways in December 2019.

The tricky pat I've foudn in this hybrid-cub scout program is getting compensated for expenses.

If I turn in a receipt, will the other wards compensate the mother ward according to the proportion of scouts divided by total cost?

I usually don't turn in receipts anyway and just buy treats on my own dime.

Since we rotate weeks we just turn in receipts from the week we are in charge of to our own ward.

I know that how we do it in in cubs wouldn't worked as well as with boy scouts since the boys plan it instead of the leaders.  Most weeks though there really isn't a lot to pay for in wolves. Even with the sports game/conpetition they go to I just look up the games for the junior high in our stake boundaries and it is free.  I look for free days at museums and gardens etc. 

[Bernard Gui]

1 hour ago, Rain said:

Since we rotate weeks we just turn in receipts from the week we are in charge of to our own ward.

I know that how we do it in in cubs wouldn't worked as well as with boy scouts since the boys plan it instead of the leaders.  Most weeks though there really isn't a lot to pay for in wolves. Even with the sports game/conpetition they go to I just look up the games for the junior high in our stake boundaries and it is free.  I look for free days at museums and gardens etc. 

I want you for my grandsons’ Cub leader.

[nuclearfuels]

5 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

Reasonable people could get together and figure out a fair method.

Yeah. They could. Still not worth the effort. Sad to say there is a bit of turnover  in the dead-man walking cub scout program combining 3 wards

[bsjkki]

36 minutes ago, nuclearfuels said:

Yeah. They could. Still not worth the effort. Sad to say there is a bit of turnover  in the dead-man walking cub scout program combining 3 wards

Having it not end for another year is making things very difficult. It's a lot of work and difficult and not many are invested anymore. We were already struggling with parental supports and now it is non-existent.

[Bernard Gui]

1 hour ago, bsjkki said:

Having it not end for another year is making things very difficult. It's a lot of work and difficult and not many are invested anymore. We were already struggling with parental supports and now it is non-existent.

On the other hand, in my son Artistissimo's ward, the gung-ho Scout leader has plotted the course for each by of a certain minimum age to earn the Eagle badge before the Church quits, and the kids are buying in big time. One is my grandson, and he's determined to see it through.

 

[bsjkki]

1 hour ago, Bernard Gui said:

On the other hand, in my son Artistissimo's ward, the gung-ho Scout leader has plotted the course for each by of a certain minimum age to earn the Eagle badge before the Church quits, and the kids are buying in big time. One is my grandson, and he's determined to see it through.

 

I tried but I can’t get my Bishopric, leaders or ward families behind such a plan. My current ward has had one Eagle in the past 10 years...we don’t have a strong scouting tradition.

last year I attempted to rally the Bishopric and scout leaders to the fact the boys deserve a strong program and could get very close to Eagle but I failed. 

 

[Rain]

Since my oldest was in scouts it has never been about the awards to me.  It is what they are learning.  I REALLY grew frustrated with the emphasis some leaders had on awards and just what that was teaching him.

When my youngest got in I became even more strong with the idea that the award want the bug thing. In fact I wouldn't let three merit badge counselers sign off for him when they planned to - I wanted my son to really learn and do. That caused some stress between us for awhile because he was frustrated, but he has since thanked me for having him really learn and work.

So the effort for me is no different with the program ending. I have told some parents all along that I really don't care if their boys got the badges or the belt loops.  I cared that they learned to be kind, brave, clean, physically strong, morally straight etc. Now if the boy attends all the meetings and does just a few must do at home assihnments that can'tbedoneatscouts then he will get his wolf, but with scouts that badge and the belt loop is not the end goal. It is the way to encourage the boys to strive towards the end goals.  

So I'm not seeing a lack of support from parents because of it ending.  I may have it for other reasons (I came to learn early on that I was here for the boys because of great stressers in the lives of their parents in nearly every single boy - kidney dialysis, severe post partem depression, custody issues, widowed mom, etc), but because I stress the learning and not the rewards then I have not lost support with it ending.

Edited August 23, 2018 by Rain

[Rain]

4 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

I want you for my grandsons’ Cub leader.

I have to be honest here. I don't really like working with children.  I don't love being in primary.  4 wards in a row I have been called into the primary, asked to pray about it, cried a lot about it, accepted and then was told by the bishopric they had changed their minds! FOUR times! Then 2 years ago I had a thought, "I could probably do primary now" and was called in 2 weeks later.

I have found I can see things or understand things in the program that others don't see. I enjoy organizing the calendar. I enjoy researching what to do, but I don't look forward to that hour each week, can't wait till the hour is over and I close that door so relieved that I am done for the week. So I put on a good show, but I am so far from Christlike for the most important part. I just don't love the boys, so I couldn't reccomend myself as a leader.

[Bernard Gui]

13 minutes ago, Rain said:

I have to be honest here. I don't really like working with children.  I don't love being in primary.  4 wards in a row I have been called into the primary, asked to pray about it, cried a lot about it, accepted and then was told by the bishopric they had changed their minds! FOUR times! Then 2 years ago I had a thought, "I could probably do primary now" and was called in 2 weeks later.

I have found I can see things or understand things in the program that others don't see. I enjoy organizing the calendar. I enjoy researching what to do, but I don't look forward to that hour each week, can't wait till the hour is over and I close that door so relieved that I am done for the week. So I put on a good show, but I am so far from Christlike for the most important part. I just don't love the boys, so I couldn't reccomend myself as a leader.

I think you underestimate yourself!

[nuclearfuels]

7 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

On the other hand, in my son Artistissimo's ward, the gung-ho Scout leader has plotted the course for each by of a certain minimum age to earn the Eagle badge before the Church quits, and the kids are buying in big time. One is my grandson, and he's determined to see it through.

 

My Dad took that same approach with his Boy Scouts.

I'm in cubs. No 50 mile hike required

[Amulek]

16 hours ago, nuclearfuels said:

The tricky pat I've foudn in this hybrid-cub scout program is getting compensated for expenses.

If I turn in a receipt, will the other wards compensate the mother ward according to the proportion of scouts divided by total cost?

This could be done fairly easily. You would just need to make copies of the receipts and then submit a reimbursement request to each participating ward, pro-rated based on the number of boys from the ward in attendance. 

Presumably, the Bishops in those wards (who ultimately have to sign off on budget expenditures) are aware of the setup and would have no problem signing off on them just like they would for any other event. 

Then just have the clerks mail you the checks once they have been cut. 

If this becomes something that is done often enough, they could probably set up a separate budget category for this to make things easier. Then the wards could just transfer the funds unit-to-unit, just like they do for other similar situations (e.g., stake girls camp). 

 

[Bernard Gui]

It’s amazing how rapidly our culture is changing. Another century-old American instition is biting the dust.....Miss America.

Edited August 23, 2018 by Bernard Gui

[Bernard Gui]

10 hours ago, Amulek said:

This could be done fairly easily. You would just need to make copies of the receipts and then submit a reimbursement request to each participating ward, pro-rated based on the number of boys from the ward in attendance. 

Presumably, the Bishops in those wards (who ultimately have to sign off on budget expenditures) are aware of the setup and would have no problem signing off on them just like they would for any other event. 

Then just have the clerks mail you the checks once they have been cut. 

If this becomes something that is done often enough, they could probably set up a separate budget category for this to make things easier. Then the wards could just transfer the funds unit-to-unit, just like they do for other similar situations (e.g., stake girls camp). 

 

Look! A reasonable person!

[nuclearfuels]

12 hours ago, Amulek said:

This could be done fairly easily. You would just need to make copies of the receipts and then submit a reimbursement request to each participating ward, pro-rated based on the number of boys from the ward in attendance. 

Presumably, the Bishops in those wards (who ultimately have to sign off on budget expenditures) are aware of the setup and would have no problem signing off on them just like they would for any other event. 

Then just have the clerks mail you the checks once they have been cut. 

If this becomes something that is done often enough, they could probably set up a separate budget category for this to make things easier. Then the wards could just transfer the funds unit-to-unit, just like they do for other similar situations (e.g., stake girls camp). 

 

It's not that we can't do it.

It's just not worth it.

I think everyone has enough on their plate so I don't bother turning in receipts.

The snacks I buy aren't expensive

[Flyonthewall]

Twenty years ago or so, two wards were split into 3, and as a result, there were very few boys in the Cub Scouts.  I was the Cub Committee Chair, but we had no Cub master.  One of the other wards had a Cub Master but no Cub Committee Chair.  We each had den leaders.

We decided to combine the Cub organization just so it could function better.  We tried to combine all 3 wards but one chose not to.

With the 2 wards combined there were maybe 6 kids total. 

One ward had he Wolf den, the other had the Bear Den.  The Cub Master would run the pack meetings, and I would fill in if he could not make it.

Each ward was responsible for purchasing the awards for their own kids and having them at the pack meetings.

We would split the cost of any den activities or pack activites.

It worked out pretty well for us.