SJR3t2 Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 I hosted most of the lectures in this youtube playlist. I did so because I wanted to learn more and share. I find this topic and how it intermingles science, mythology, ect with scriptures.
RevTestament Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 1 hour ago, SJR3t2 said: I hosted most of the lectures in this youtube playlist. I did so because I wanted to learn more and share. I find this topic and how it intermingles science, mythology, ect with scriptures. Hello SJR312 and welcome to the forum. This fella has some strange notions - like the Galileans had blond hair and blue eyes. His evidence for this? They could be recognized. The Bible says "thy speech betrayeth thee" in reference to Peter - not his blond hair and blue eyes. I'm not saying I am going to dismiss everything Mr. Larson says, but he will have to do better than this. 1
SJR3t2 Posted April 27, 2018 Author Posted April 27, 2018 I'm very acquainted with many of his ideas, including that one. I don't agree with him on everything, but the basic premise I most defiantly do agree. Regarding "thy speech betrayeth thee" that can and should be applied to many others that it is not applied to. For one Anthony openly admins he is a scholar and not being told these things by God's actual words. I personally do believe that he has been inspired and helped with from above on the basic idea.
JLHPROF Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 1 hour ago, SJR3t2 said: I'm very acquainted with many of his ideas, including that one. I don't agree with him on everything, but the basic premise I most defiantly do agree. Regarding "thy speech betrayeth thee" that can and should be applied to many others that it is not applied to. For one Anthony openly admins he is a scholar and not being told these things by God's actual words. I personally do believe that he has been inspired and helped with from above on the basic idea. I don't always agree with the scholars on everything either. And I am open to new ideas. But in my experience when we seek out the obscure scholar with the unique theories that contradict well established evidence and belief of the academic community in general the odds of coming to the correct conclusions are drastically reduced. There are exceptions that prove this belief of course. But you seem to have a propensity for gravitating to the fringe writers on subjects. Who knows- maybe you'll find the Mormon Daniel Jackson... 1
SJR3t2 Posted April 27, 2018 Author Posted April 27, 2018 30 minutes ago, JLHPROF said: I don't always agree with the scholars on everything either. And I am open to new ideas. But in my experience when we seek out the obscure scholar with the unique theories that contradict well established evidence and belief of the academic community in general the odds of coming to the correct conclusions are drastically reduced. There are exceptions that prove this belief of course. But you seem to have a propensity for gravitating to the fringe writers on subjects. Who knows- maybe you'll find the Mormon Daniel Jackson... Is truth confirmed by scholars or Holy Ghost? Did Joseph Smith trust the wisdom of men go to God to know truth? I do admit I am not at the point that God is giving me words on much, it has happened on a few things. But the electronic universe model does confirm to me things stated in the Book of Abraham which I believe JS translated it. Men figuring out truth on their own is a tricky buisness I admit, and I will also admit I believe differently than main stream on many subjects, which I am fine with. Truth is not truth because how popular or how many scientist accept it. We all need to do as D&C says to study and ponder with faith and go to God for confirmation. FYI I don't believe the typical timeline for Egypt, I do believe the Egypt timeline needs to be shifted.
JLHPROF Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 1 hour ago, SJR3t2 said: Is truth confirmed by scholars or Holy Ghost? Did Joseph Smith trust the wisdom of men go to God to know truth? I do admit I am not at the point that God is giving me words on much, it has happened on a few things. But the electronic universe model does confirm to me things stated in the Book of Abraham which I believe JS translated it. Men figuring out truth on their own is a tricky buisness I admit, and I will also admit I believe differently than main stream on many subjects, which I am fine with. Truth is not truth because how popular or how many scientist accept it. We all need to do as D&C says to study and ponder with faith and go to God for confirmation. FYI I don't believe the typical timeline for Egypt, I do believe the Egypt timeline needs to be shifted. Just saying, if you stick to the fringes on gospel beliefs you are only going to find fringe ideas. And the odds of them being true are dramatically reduced. As evidenced by your posts on polygamy. But as with a broken clock, even these fringe "scholars" are right on occasion. 2
SJR3t2 Posted April 27, 2018 Author Posted April 27, 2018 “The Savior has the words of eternal life. Nothing else can profit us… I advise all to go on to perfection, and search deeper and deeper into the mysteries of Godliness. A man can do nothing for himself unless God direct him in the right way…” Joseph Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 364
SJR3t2 Posted April 27, 2018 Author Posted April 27, 2018 Honestly I would not say scholar are right on a regular basis, people just assume they are.
SJR3t2 Posted April 27, 2018 Author Posted April 27, 2018 This is the first scripture I saw on my own in the BoM that talks about it. Notice how it says regular form verses other things. To me this is significant, but I can understand how it may not be to others. Alma 30:44 all the planets which move in their REGULAR FORM do witness that there is a Supreme Creator.
Tacenda Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 45 minutes ago, SJR3t2 said: “The Savior has the words of eternal life. Nothing else can profit us… I advise all to go on to perfection, and search deeper and deeper into the mysteries of Godliness. A man can do nothing for himself unless God direct him in the right way…” Joseph Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 364 Welcome to the board! I was wondering if this same scholar has ever put out a video about the top of the church's conference center. I watched one a couple of years ago, where the guy said that whoever designed the top of the conf. center made it so if you look down onto it there will be a special design that has some kind of meaning. My memory is shoddy right now so having a tough time remembering exactly what was said, but thought it facinating! Could it be the same guy? I'd love to find the video again and watch it.
Jeanne Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Tacenda said: Welcome to the board! I was wondering if this same scholar has ever put out a video about the top of the church's conference center. I watched one a couple of years ago, where the guy said that whoever designed the top of the conf. center made it so if you look down onto it there will be a special design that has some kind of meaning. My memory is shoddy right now so having a tough time remembering exactly what was said, but thought it facinating! Could it be the same guy? I'd love to find the video again and watch it. Oooo..never heard of this before..if you find..link it to me okay? Welcome SJR3t2! Edited April 27, 2018 by Jeanne
SJR3t2 Posted April 27, 2018 Author Posted April 27, 2018 33 minutes ago, Tacenda said: Welcome to the board! I was wondering if this same scholar has ever put out a video about the top of the church's conference center. I watched one a couple of years ago, where the guy said that whoever designed the top of the conf. center made it so if you look down onto it there will be a special design that has some kind of meaning. My memory is shoddy right now so having a tough time remembering exactly what was said, but thought it facinating! Could it be the same guy? I'd love to find the video again and watch it. Yes and to brag a little I'm the one that pointed it out to him after taking his classes.
SJR3t2 Posted April 27, 2018 Author Posted April 27, 2018 Look at the sketches of Saturn in the early plans of the SLC Temple. Instead of having something that is obviously Saturn we have what is called Saturn Stones instead, I presume because of the effect involved to do otherwise.
Tacenda Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 1 minute ago, SJR3t2 said: 14 minutes ago, Jeanne said: Yes and to brag a little I'm the one that pointed it out to him after taking his classes. Wow, thanks for posting this, I'll have to watch it again!
Tacenda Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 16 minutes ago, Jeanne said: Oooo..never heard of this before..if you find..link it to me okay? Welcome SJR3t2! It's been found, he just posted the video!
Jeanne Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 1 minute ago, Tacenda said: It's been found, he just posted the video! Thanks to both of you!
SJR3t2 Posted April 27, 2018 Author Posted April 27, 2018 Your welcome. I hope you gals enjoy it. I do understand that it's a bit of paradime shift seeing things this way. Electronic Universe Model supports it. I know some of the science of it. I personally like the imagery and the gospel insights that come from it. Here is one post I wrote focusing on one example of the Polar Configuration in the BoM. https://seekingyhwh.com/2016/06/06/mosiah-2711-almas-conversion-and-the-polar-configuration/
pogi Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 7 hours ago, SJR3t2 said: I hosted most of the lectures in this youtube playlist. I did so because I wanted to learn more and share. I find this topic and how it intermingles science, mythology, ect with scriptures. This is an hour long video. Can you summarize the key points?
SJR3t2 Posted April 27, 2018 Author Posted April 27, 2018 5 minutes ago, pogi said: This is an hour long video. Can you summarize the key points? The link you are referring to I believe is a playlist of multiple videos. Some which do have a little summary. Here is a link to wet your appetite.
mfbukowski Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 (edited) The name Israel means "he who prevails with God" Look it up. Perfectly logical if you actually read the story about how he got his name- by wresting with the Lord and "prevailing" by surrendering after his hip was put out of joint. His loss was actually his victory by surrendering to God. Nothing to do with Isis, Ra, and El as names other than "El" being part of "prevailing with God" He mentions nothing about struggling with the angel which is the whole point of the story. Here is something I wrote on it. https://www.mormoninterpreter.com/untangling-scripture-from-the-philosophies-of-men/ Quote This confrontation between the subjective personal spiritual witness of experiencing God and the ensuing objective act of verbalizing that “God is real” or “the Church is true” — and what all that could possibly mean — is the central confrontation of Wrestling the Angel and is indeed the question every theist must be able to answer at least for him or herself. Tension between the rational and revelatory, faith and reason, the sophic and the mantic runs throughout book, symbolized by the concept of “wrestling an angel.”2 [Page 70]Without directly articulating the problem in these terms, these are the tensions Givens faces: between the historical and the spiritual, between scripture and its philosophical interpretation, and between unchanging truth and the evolution of theology. He handles these tensions masterfully. Givens cites figuratively the task of Jacob in the Old Testament, who wrestles with the balance between the philosophies of men and revealed scripture. The account of this struggle is one of the most cryptic chapters in all scripture, in which Jacob receives his new name from God, “Israel,” or “he who prevails,” after wrestling all night long with the angel, interpreted to be the Lord himself. Scripture tells us that in this struggle, Jacob “prevailed.” But how can man prevail against God? The only way is through consistent, diligent, humble obedience, which shows worthiness. Ultimately, this is the way Israel “prevailed” against the angel — by persisting in seeking a blessing despite being completely humbled. The story tells us that Jacob held fast to the angel and would not allow him to escape, leaving the angel no alternative but to dislocate Jacob’s hip. Jacob/Israel had lost the fight, yet Jacob still would not release the angel, insisting that the Lord give him a blessing. The angel ultimately agreed and gave him his blessing. So in the long run, Israel “prevailed” through surrender to God and an unwavering commitment to do what was necessary to receive God’s blessings. By any objective measure, he limped away from the battle a defeated man, yet God pronounced that Jacob, now “Israel,” had prevailed by his persistence and ultimate surrender to God’s will. By struggling well to do what God ultimately desired of him, Jacob was blessed and became favored of God. The endowment of blessings resulted in God’s changing Jacob’s name to “Israel,” “He who prevails with God.” And then I go on with my interpretation of this for LDS people. Quote For Mormons, as “children of Israel” we may apply this story to our own personal struggles in weighing the philosophies of men against scripture. Though we have no systematic theology, each of us has to become his or her own systematic theologian in our own wrestlings with the angel, our own struggle to answer these questions to our own satisfaction. Literal interpretations appeal to some, and some literalists include positivism in their mental repertoire. To others, historical evidence is essential. To others the philosophy must gel perfectly with a scriptural interpretation. Still others see scripture as largely symbolic, [Page 71]figurative, and perhaps interpretable in terms of Jungian archetypes or Freudian projections. To faithful Latter-day Saints, all paradigms are possible as long as their lives are lived in orthopraxis under the principles of obedience and sacrifice and the keeping of sacred covenants. In short, each of us needs to take “matter unorganized” and organize it into a rational world that makes sense to each of us according to our personal needs. AND HE IS NOT TEACHING THE PHILOSOPHIES OF MEN- ie: himself?? Give me a break!! Edited April 27, 2018 by mfbukowski
SJR3t2 Posted April 27, 2018 Author Posted April 27, 2018 9 minutes ago, mfbukowski said: The name Israel means "he who prevails with God" Look it up. Perfectly logical if you actually read the story about how he got his name- by wresting with the Lord and "prevailing" by surrendering after his hip was put out of joint. His loss was actually his victory by surrendering to God. Nothing to do with Isis, Ra, and El as names other than "El" being part of "prevailing with God" He mentions nothing about struggling with the angel which is the whole point of the story. Here is something I wrote on it. https://www.mormoninterpreter.com/untangling-scripture-from-the-philosophies-of-men/ And then I go on with my interpretation of this for LDS people. AND HE IS NOT TEACHING THE PHILOSOPHIES OF MEN- ie: himself?? Give me a break!! that is one interpretation of the name. Unless God tells us directly we are trusting in a man for the definition. Because he focus on one aspect and leaves another out, his point is comply invalid is that your argument? I'm very aware of philosophies of men mingled with scriptures I try to rid myself of them all the time. I'm sure we will disagree what the scriptures are saying and what is mingling in various things and hopefully agree on others.
mfbukowski Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 For those who don't believe we can create our own doctrine- this is one of the best examples I have seen Good for him Interesting that his temple references seem to refer to the "preacher" who was ex'ed in 1990. I have no argument with his paradigm, just that it is as right as any and he has shown no evidence that anything else is "wrong". I studied temple symbolism for a long time also and have the same book he must have read on the outside of the salt lake temple. I just object to his idea that he is the only one who is "right". Harmless stuff. "Actually discover the meaning of the temple endowment"?? Like he HAS? BIG problem with that. What HUBRIS!!
mfbukowski Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 (edited) 13 minutes ago, SJR3t2 said: that is one interpretation of the name. Unless God tells us directly we are trusting in a man for the definition. Because he focus on one aspect and leaves another out, his point is comply invalid is that your argument? I'm very aware of philosophies of men mingled with scriptures I try to rid myself of them all the time. I'm sure we will disagree what the scriptures are saying and what is mingling in various things and hopefully agree on others. No because he thinks he has found THE TRUTH that no one else understands. HE knows the "true meaning" of the endowment?? Come on dude!! His is just one more paradigm from one more Latter Day Saint, creating his own universe from matter unorganized. That's what we all are supposed to do, after all. The philosophies of men are inescapable- God Himself was the Man of Holiness and he gave us plenty of philosophy through Joseph, another man. Edited April 27, 2018 by mfbukowski
mfbukowski Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 Every move we make, word we say, and thought we think ARE the philosophies of men because that is what we are. Good luck in the attempt to stop being human.
mfbukowski Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 18 minutes ago, SJR3t2 said: that is one interpretation of the name. Unless God tells us directly we are trusting in a man for the definition. Because he focus on one aspect and leaves another out, his point is comply invalid is that your argument? I'm very aware of philosophies of men mingled with scriptures I try to rid myself of them all the time. I'm sure we will disagree what the scriptures are saying and what is mingling in various things and hopefully agree on others. Even WHEN God tells us directly we are trusting in a Man for the definition.
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