The Nehor Posted February 28, 2018 Posted February 28, 2018 11 hours ago, SamuelTheLamanite said: It is a just theory that explains many things. We do have the mesoamerican flood stories. You told me because there is "no scientific evidence". And those flood stories are more adequately explained other ways. Fine, change that to “no evidence at all” if you want me to be more harsh.
SamuelTheLamanite Posted February 28, 2018 Author Posted February 28, 2018 43 minutes ago, The Nehor said: And those flood stories are more adequately explained other ways. Fine, change that to “no evidence at all” if you want me to be more harsh. There is some evidence Nehor. If you put it in Mesoamerica the "North" and "South" of the Book of the Book of Mormon don't make any sense. Some scholars simply call them "Nephite North" and "Nephite South". But if you think about it the Nephites were very intelligent. The Book of Mormon "North" makes sense if you put the land of the Nephites in the Gulf of Mexico. The Flood theory explains why we don't find many things like metals during Book of Mormon times. The metals are deep inside the gulf of Mexico. Nehor, a great flood did happen during the time of Noah, so there is no reason to think another flood was impossible.
SamuelTheLamanite Posted February 28, 2018 Author Posted February 28, 2018 (edited) 12 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said: False. Scientists date both the Black Sea event and the great Pluvial rains. When? 7,000 to 5,000 BC 12 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said: When do you date Noah, Dr Sam? Noah's Flood dates from 3,000 to 2,500 BC https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bible-chron?lang=eng . The Black Sea rise dates from 7,000 BC to 5,600 BC at the latest. The reason why scholars don't put Noah's flood much earlier is because there is no evidence the Noah traditions date back to thousands of years. 3,000 BC to 2,500 BC is more reasonable and is more compatible with the Bible genealogy. 12 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said: Your imagination is dominating your discourse here, and you haven't the foggiest idea how to date Noah. My imagination explains a lot of things. See what I told Nehor. Edited February 28, 2018 by SamuelTheLamanite
JLHPROF Posted February 28, 2018 Posted February 28, 2018 12 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said: False. Scientists date both the Black Sea event and the great Pluvial rains. When do scientists date Noah? They don't. When do you date Noah, Dr Sam? Your imagination is dominating your discourse here, and you haven't the foggiest idea how to date Noah. You are the one who brought the subject up, suggesting that God is a liar. God doesn't have to be a liar. He is the source of all light and truth in the world. All he has to do is withhold light of understanding from the best scientific minds. I have no idea one way or another which scientific theories are true and which are not. The one I have always been somewhat skeptical concerning is our ability to date historical events and artifacts based on a variety of methods. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronological_dating) See, God doesn't have to lie or provide false evidence, but science has been known to make mistakes in their understanding of their observations. God is quite capable of withholding light of knowledge. Science continues to learn and correct previously incorrect scientific theories. Who knows what we will learn tomorrow?
Calm Posted February 28, 2018 Posted February 28, 2018 (edited) 39 minutes ago, SamuelTheLamanite said: But if you think about it the Nephites were very intelligent. Meaning what exactly? What does their level of intelligence have to do with how they define North? Edited February 28, 2018 by Calm
omni Posted February 28, 2018 Posted February 28, 2018 On 2/27/2018 at 12:05 PM, JLHPROF said: Funny, I thought that the Gulf of Mexico is where the City of Enoch ascended from, long before Book of Mormon times. March 30, 1873: At evening prayer circle: President Young said Joseph the Prophet told me that the Garden [172] of Eden was in Jackson County, Missouri, and when Adam was driven out of the Garden of Eden, he went about 40 miles to the place which he named Adam ondi Ahman, and there built an alter of stone and offered sacrifice. That altar remains to this day. I saw it as Adam left it, as did many others, and through all the revolutions of the world, that alter had not been disturbed. Joseph also said that when the City of Enoch fled and was translated, it was where the gulf of Mexico now is; it left that gulf a body of water. - Wilford Woodruff Journal Joseph Smith said, on another occasion, in the hearing of some of the saints still surviving, that the City of Enoch would again take its place in the identical spot from which it had been detached, now forming that chasm of the earth, filled with water, called the Gulf of Mexico - Joseph Young http://young.parkinsonfamily.org/joseph/docs/joseph-young-history-70s.htm Interesting, I've never heard this before. Outside of his prayer to know which of all churches to join, do we have any documented instances where Joseph responded to a gospel related question with "I don't know"? It seems today we get a lot more, "We don't know", "the Church has no official position", or "it doesn't pertain to our salvation".
strappinglad Posted February 28, 2018 Posted February 28, 2018 Geologists are quite good at ignoring the ' light ' when it suits them . I link the story of the Scablands and the 40+ year fight to have what is now obvious be accepted by the scientific community. Another anomaly is the Lewis Overthrust which geologists say happened in a way that strains credulity. Uniformitarian geology often fails to explain what catastrophism can explain quite well. https://arstechnica.com/science/2014/10/the-scablands-a-scarred-landscape-as-strange-as-fiction/
Teancum Posted February 28, 2018 Posted February 28, 2018 On 2/27/2018 at 12:59 AM, SamuelTheLamanite said: I believe there was a great flood after the final battle of Cumorah, after Moroni traveled northward, and after the Nephite civilization was destroyed by the Lamanites. I believe most Book of Mormon cities were drowned and are now deep underwater in the gulf of Mexico. For me, the gulf of Mexico was created by a great flood. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesoamerican_flood_myths https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/evidence-suggests-biblical-great-flood-noahs-time-happened/story?id=17884533 If the great Noah's flood created the Black Sea, then why can't we speculate the same thing about the Gulf of Mexico? Your beliefs are rather ludicrous and certainly are disputed by evidence that is real.
Teancum Posted February 28, 2018 Posted February 28, 2018 On 2/27/2018 at 12:05 PM, JLHPROF said: Funny, I thought that the Gulf of Mexico is where the City of Enoch ascended from, long before Book of Mormon times. March 30, 1873: At evening prayer circle: President Young said Joseph the Prophet told me that the Garden [172] of Eden was in Jackson County, Missouri, and when Adam was driven out of the Garden of Eden, he went about 40 miles to the place which he named Adam ondi Ahman, and there built an alter of stone and offered sacrifice. That altar remains to this day. I saw it as Adam left it, as did many others, and through all the revolutions of the world, that alter had not been disturbed. Joseph also said that when the City of Enoch fled and was translated, it was where the gulf of Mexico now is; it left that gulf a body of water. - Wilford Woodruff Journal Joseph Smith said, on another occasion, in the hearing of some of the saints still surviving, that the City of Enoch would again take its place in the identical spot from which it had been detached, now forming that chasm of the earth, filled with water, called the Gulf of Mexico - Joseph Young http://young.parkinsonfamily.org/joseph/docs/joseph-young-history-70s.htm This as as foolish and ludicrous as what Samuel posted. Please tell me you really don't believe this.
Robert F. Smith Posted February 28, 2018 Posted February 28, 2018 4 hours ago, JLHPROF said: God doesn't have to be a liar. He is the source of all light and truth in the world. All he has to do is withhold light of understanding from the best scientific minds. I have no idea one way or another which scientific theories are true and which are not. The one I have always been somewhat skeptical concerning is our ability to date historical events and artifacts based on a variety of methods. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronological_dating) See, God doesn't have to lie or provide false evidence, but science has been known to make mistakes in their understanding of their observations. God is quite capable of withholding light of knowledge. Science continues to learn and correct previously incorrect scientific theories. Who knows what we will learn tomorrow?................................ Perhaps so, but the problem for Sam is that he is footloose and fancy free in his dating claims, not even aware of what geologic science is.
strappinglad Posted March 1, 2018 Posted March 1, 2018 Just for fun: Surface area of the Gulf of Mexico = 600,000 sq.mi. Land area for New York City metropolitan = 500 sq.mi. population - 20 million Land area for Mexico City metropolitan = 500 sq.mi. population - 20 million All figures are rough approximations.
JLHPROF Posted March 1, 2018 Posted March 1, 2018 44 minutes ago, strappinglad said: Just for fun: Surface area of the Gulf of Mexico = 600,000 sq.mi. Land area for New York City metropolitan = 500 sq.mi. population - 20 million Land area for Mexico City metropolitan = 500 sq.mi. population - 20 million All figures are rough approximations. Well, nobody said the hole left was the same size as the city. Just that the city was located on the piece of land that was taken up. 2
strappinglad Posted March 1, 2018 Posted March 1, 2018 10 minutes ago, JLHPROF said: Well, nobody said the hole left was the same size as the city. Just that the city was located on the piece of land that was taken up. True enough. Besides, the city would need room to expand over the millennia, mansions get bigger etc. 1
The Nehor Posted March 1, 2018 Posted March 1, 2018 (edited) 8 hours ago, SamuelTheLamanite said: There is some evidence Nehor. If you put it in Mesoamerica the "North" and "South" of the Book of the Book of Mormon don't make any sense. Some scholars simply call them "Nephite North" and "Nephite South". But if you think about it the Nephites were very intelligent. The Book of Mormon "North" makes sense if you put the land of the Nephites in the Gulf of Mexico. It actually would change nothing. 8 hours ago, SamuelTheLamanite said: The Flood theory explains why we don't find many things like metals during Book of Mormon times. The metals are deep inside the gulf of Mexico. Nehor, a great flood did happen during the time of Noah, so there is no reason to think another flood was impossible. One time some people were translated so it is not impossible that I am not a translated being. That kind of reasoning is inane. Edited March 1, 2018 by The Nehor
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