SamuelTheLamanite Posted February 27, 2018 Posted February 27, 2018 I believe there was a great flood after the final battle of Cumorah, after Moroni traveled northward, and after the Nephite civilization was destroyed by the Lamanites. I believe most Book of Mormon cities were drowned and are now deep underwater in the gulf of Mexico. For me, the gulf of Mexico was created by a great flood. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesoamerican_flood_myths Quote According to a controversial theory proposed by two Columbia University scientists, there really was one in the Black Sea region. They believe that the now-salty Black Sea was once an isolated freshwater lake surrounded by farmland, until it was flooded by an enormous wall of water from the rising Mediterranean Sea. The force of the water was two hundred times that of Niagara Falls, sweeping away everything in its path. https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/evidence-suggests-biblical-great-flood-noahs-time-happened/story?id=17884533 If the great Noah's flood created the Black Sea, then why can't we speculate the same thing about the Gulf of Mexico? 1
Robert F. Smith Posted February 27, 2018 Posted February 27, 2018 4 minutes ago, SamuelTheLamanite said: I believe there was a great flood after the final battle of Cumorah, after Moroni traveled northward, and after the Nephite civilization was destroyed by the Lamanites. I believe most Book of Mormon cities were drowned and are now deep underwater in the gulf of Mexico. For me, the gulf of Mexico was created by a great flood. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesoamerican_flood_myths https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/evidence-suggests-biblical-great-flood-noahs-time-happened/story?id=17884533 If the great Noah's flood created the Black Sea, then why can't we speculate the same thing about the Gulf of Mexico? We don't know whether the Black Sea Flood is Noah's Flood, and there is no evidence at all for that imaginary Gulf of Mexico flood. It is irresponsible to invent a flood just because you would like to have one. You'd be better off writing imaginary tales for little children, Sam. Something like Green Eggs and Ham, Sam. Some scholars suppose that Noah's Flood story (and all the other Great Flood stories worldwide) are a result of the great Pluvial rains at the end of the last ice age, at least 10,000 years BC. 4
The Nehor Posted February 27, 2018 Posted February 27, 2018 50 minutes ago, SamuelTheLamanite said: I believe there was a great flood after the final battle of Cumorah, after Moroni traveled northward, and after the Nephite civilization was destroyed by the Lamanites. I believe most Book of Mormon cities were drowned and are now deep underwater in the gulf of Mexico. For me, the gulf of Mexico was created by a great flood. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesoamerican_flood_myths https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/evidence-suggests-biblical-great-flood-noahs-time-happened/story?id=17884533 If the great Noah's flood created the Black Sea, then why can't we speculate the same thing about the Gulf of Mexico? So you are inventing a flood for which there is no scientific evidence to tie it to a flood that is not mentioned in scripture but that you are theorizing? Sounds like a solution in search of a problem. 3
JLHPROF Posted February 27, 2018 Posted February 27, 2018 10 hours ago, SamuelTheLamanite said: I believe most Book of Mormon cities were drowned and are now deep underwater in the gulf of Mexico. For me, the gulf of Mexico was created by a great flood. If the great Noah's flood created the Black Sea, then why can't we speculate the same thing about the Gulf of Mexico? Funny, I thought that the Gulf of Mexico is where the City of Enoch ascended from, long before Book of Mormon times. March 30, 1873: At evening prayer circle: President Young said Joseph the Prophet told me that the Garden [172] of Eden was in Jackson County, Missouri, and when Adam was driven out of the Garden of Eden, he went about 40 miles to the place which he named Adam ondi Ahman, and there built an alter of stone and offered sacrifice. That altar remains to this day. I saw it as Adam left it, as did many others, and through all the revolutions of the world, that alter had not been disturbed. Joseph also said that when the City of Enoch fled and was translated, it was where the gulf of Mexico now is; it left that gulf a body of water. - Wilford Woodruff Journal Joseph Smith said, on another occasion, in the hearing of some of the saints still surviving, that the City of Enoch would again take its place in the identical spot from which it had been detached, now forming that chasm of the earth, filled with water, called the Gulf of Mexico - Joseph Young http://young.parkinsonfamily.org/joseph/docs/joseph-young-history-70s.htm 3
mfbukowski Posted February 27, 2018 Posted February 27, 2018 1 hour ago, JLHPROF said: Funny, I thought that the Gulf of Mexico is where the City of Enoch ascended from, long before Book of Mormon times. March 30, 1873: At evening prayer circle: President Young said Joseph the Prophet told me that the Garden [172] of Eden was in Jackson County, Missouri, and when Adam was driven out of the Garden of Eden, he went about 40 miles to the place which he named Adam ondi Ahman, and there built an alter of stone and offered sacrifice. That altar remains to this day. I saw it as Adam left it, as did many others, and through all the revolutions of the world, that alter had not been disturbed. Joseph also said that when the City of Enoch fled and was translated, it was where the gulf of Mexico now is; it left that gulf a body of water. - Wilford Woodruff Journal Joseph Smith said, on another occasion, in the hearing of some of the saints still surviving, that the City of Enoch would again take its place in the identical spot from which it had been detached, now forming that chasm of the earth, filled with water, called the Gulf of Mexico - Joseph Young http://young.parkinsonfamily.org/joseph/docs/joseph-young-history-70s.htm And you though Hurricane Harvey was hard on the gulf coast? I though that's where Africa fit before the "lands were divided in the days of Peleg." Funny how literalists cite geology when it fits what they want and ignore it the rest of the time https://answersingenesis.org/geology/plate-tectonics/did-the-continents-split-apart-in-the-days-of-peleg/
JLHPROF Posted February 27, 2018 Posted February 27, 2018 16 minutes ago, mfbukowski said: And you though Hurricane Harvey was hard on the gulf coast? I though that's where Africa fit before the "lands were divided in the days of Peleg." Funny how literalists cite geology when it fits what they want and ignore it the rest of the time https://answersingenesis.org/geology/plate-tectonics/did-the-continents-split-apart-in-the-days-of-peleg/ Actually, that depends on which map of Pangaea you look at. Some show the Gulf of Mexico filled, others show it as a great hole, perfectly City of Enoch sized. 2
mfbukowski Posted February 27, 2018 Posted February 27, 2018 58 minutes ago, JLHPROF said: Actually, that depends on which map of Pangaea you look at. Some show the Gulf of Mexico filled, others show it as a great hole, perfectly City of Enoch sized. That's weird - never noticed that. Obviously the real Gulf is too small to make a perfect jigsaw puzzle work, but then you've got all the little pieces of dirt left over like Florida, Cuba and the islands which could be just fragments but that probably explains the hole if we discount I am trying to figure out why no one is proposing the hole filled in by the Great Salt Lake, which of course we know used to be larger. THAT would be the most "Mormon" answer for all these ideas. I mean look at the symbolic significance proving that Zion IS Zion after all! Objective truth for names of banks, construction companies, plumbers and whatever is named "Zion"! Somebody write a blog so we can make up scholarly evidence for it- that would be spiffy!! There has to be an Indian legend or some old manuscript from Mongolia that would justify it in some way!
mfbukowski Posted February 27, 2018 Posted February 27, 2018 5 minutes ago, mfbukowski said: That's weird - never noticed that. Obviously the real Gulf is too small to make a perfect jigsaw puzzle work, but then you've got all the little pieces of dirt left over like Florida, Cuba and the islands which could be just fragments but that probably explains the hole if we discount I am trying to figure out why no one is proposing the hole filled in by the Great Salt Lake, which of course we know used to be larger. THAT would be the most "Mormon" answer for all these ideas. I mean look at the symbolic significance proving that Zion IS Zion after all! Objective truth for names of banks, construction companies, plumbers and whatever is named "Zion"! Somebody write a blog so we can make up scholarly evidence for it- that would be spiffy!! There has to be an Indian legend or some old manuscript from Mongolia that would justify it in some way! OK here you have objective evidence with approximate time lines showing that Enoch's city came right out of what is now the Great Salt Lake, following which the waters under the earth filled the hole and caused a great flood which also was the flood mentioned by Noah. And so we see that Zion is in the location God intended from before the earth began Quote Meanwhile, these same secularists and Bible skeptics have been demanding that we Bible believers explain where the waters came from to flood the Earth during the cataclysmic Genesis Flood! Our answer hasn’t changed since the book of Genesis was written by special revelation from God: “All the fountains of the great deep were broken up” (Genesis 7:11). In other words, some of the waters for the Flood came from inside the Earth, adding to the waters already covering the Earth from the beginning on Day One of the Creation Week (Genesis 1:2); on Day Three, God gathered the waters into one place and called them seas (Genesis 1:9–10). https://answersingenesis.org/geology/rocks-and-minerals/where-did-earths-water-come/ Quote The Bonneville Flood, which occurred about 15,000 years ago, dropped the level of Lake Bonneville more than 300 feet to the Provo Level (4,740 feet above sea level). The 14,400-square-mile lake remained at this level for more than a thousand years, its level controlled by the spillover elevation at Red Rock Pass. It also was relatively fresh. Prominent deltas at the mouths of rivers entering the lake, and shoreline features such as spits, lagoons, and wave-cut benches mark this level. The University of Utah, Brigham Young University, Utah State University, and Weber State University campuses all are located on the Provo Level of Lake Bonneville. Were the lake to rise again in response to dramatically changed climate conditions, it could go no higher than this level because it, too, would flow out of the Great Basin into the Columbia River Basin at Red Rock Pass. Approximately 12,000 years ago, the level of Lake Bonneville fell precipitously due to changes in the Great Basin climate. The Gilbert Level Shoreline ended about 10,000 years ago and left its mark about fifty feet above the present level of Great Salt Lake. It marks the last gasp of the Bonneville Lake cycle and the beginning of the story of Great Salt Lake. Lake Bonneville is a very young geologic feature, with its age measured in thousands of years rather than in millions or billions of years as are most of the geologic features in Utah. But it is very important. Most of the large deposits of sand and gravel mined along the Wasatch Front were formed by Lake Bonneville. Features formed by the lake provide an excellent laboratory to study how landforms develop beneath the surface of lakes and along lakeshores. The deformation of the lake's shorelines provides important information about the physical properties of the earth's crust. The lake's features provide a striking example of how dramatically changes of climate can affect the surface of the earth in only a few thousand years. The development of another Lake Bonneville would flood most of the thickly populated area of Utah. Fluctuations of Great Salt Lake, which are minor in comparison, can be expected every hundred years or so and can alter the lake level by a few feet to perhaps 4,219 feet above sea level. Yet even this would flood billions of dollars of development along the Great Salt Lake's shoreline. http://historytogo.utah.gov/utah_chapters/the_land/lakebonneville.html If God finds that Salt Lake City is full of iniquity when Zion returns, he will cause a second flood coinciding with a period of rains, when Zion returns, causing the lake to overflow and destroy the evil there
Robert F. Smith Posted February 27, 2018 Posted February 27, 2018 5 hours ago, JLHPROF said: Funny, I thought that the Gulf of Mexico is where the City of Enoch ascended from, long before Book of Mormon times. March 30, 1873: At evening prayer circle: President Young said Joseph the Prophet told me that the Garden [172] of Eden was in Jackson County, Missouri, and when Adam was driven out of the Garden of Eden, he went about 40 miles to the place which he named Adam ondi Ahman, and there built an alter of stone and offered sacrifice. That altar remains to this day. I saw it as Adam left it, as did many others, and through all the revolutions of the world, that alter had not been disturbed. Joseph also said that when the City of Enoch fled and was translated, it was where the gulf of Mexico now is; it left that gulf a body of water. - Wilford Woodruff Journal Joseph Smith said, on another occasion, in the hearing of some of the saints still surviving, that the City of Enoch would again take its place in the identical spot from which it had been detached, now forming that chasm of the earth, filled with water, called the Gulf of Mexico - Joseph Young http://young.parkinsonfamily.org/joseph/docs/joseph-young-history-70s.htm There actually was a meteoric impact near there 65 milliion years ago, the Chicxulub impact event at the edge of the Yucatan Peninsula. Killed all the dinosaurs on the planet.
SamuelTheLamanite Posted February 28, 2018 Author Posted February 28, 2018 18 hours ago, The Nehor said: So you are inventing a flood for which there is no scientific evidence to tie it to a flood that is not mentioned in scripture but that you are theorizing? Sounds like a solution in search of a problem. There is no scientific evidence for many events in the scriptures. There is no evidence for the great flood of Noah (four thousand years ago), no evidence for the Resurrection, no evidence for Adam and Eve, no evidence for turning wine into water. God doesn't need scientific evidences for his miracles.
Rajah Manchou Posted February 28, 2018 Posted February 28, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, mfbukowski said: I am trying to figure out why no one is proposing the hole filled in by the Great Salt Lake, which of course we know used to be larger. THAT would be the most "Mormon" answer for all these ideas. I mean look at the symbolic significance proving that Zion IS Zion after all! Somebody write a blog so we can make up scholarly evidence for it- that would be spiffy!! There has to be an Indian legend or some old manuscript from Mongolia that would justify it in some way! I'm on it. Enoch inscribed the sacred wisdom of ante-diluvian astronomy on two pillars in the Land of Seriad. (source) Seriad is also known as the "Land of the Hive". (source) Utah is known as the Beehive State, the State emblem is a beehive, the state insect is a bee and the state star cluster is the beehive cluster. Utah is the Land of the Hive. Therefore, Enoch lived in the Beehive State. Edited February 28, 2018 by Rajah Manchou 3
Calm Posted February 28, 2018 Posted February 28, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, SamuelTheLamanite said: There is no scientific evidence for many events in the scriptures. There is no evidence for the great flood of Noah (four thousand years ago), no evidence for the Resurrection, no evidence for Adam and Eve, no evidence for turning wine into water.... Most events you would not expect there to be scientific evidence though...how do you envision scientific evidence for wine showing up at a party, for example? Edited February 28, 2018 by Calm
SamuelTheLamanite Posted February 28, 2018 Author Posted February 28, 2018 22 minutes ago, Calm said: Most events you would not expect there to be scientific evidence though...how do you envision scientific evidence for wine showing up at a party, for example? It is a fair point, but do we expect scientific evidence for the great flood of Noah? Adam and Even? and many other events in our scriptures? I believe God doesn't need scientific evidence to perform miracles. My idea of a second flood in the Americas should be taken as an interesting possibility. I believe my second flood theory is very likely because it explains many things.
JLHPROF Posted February 28, 2018 Posted February 28, 2018 15 minutes ago, SamuelTheLamanite said: It is a fair point, but do we expect scientific evidence for the great flood of Noah? Adam and Even? and many other events in our scriptures? I believe God doesn't need scientific evidence to perform miracles. My idea of a second flood in the Americas should be taken as an interesting possibility. I believe my second flood theory is very likely because it explains many things. So when there's no recorded miracle we get to invent one? Cool. 1
SamuelTheLamanite Posted February 28, 2018 Author Posted February 28, 2018 (edited) 22 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said: We don't know whether the Black Sea Flood is Noah's Flood Okay, but we do know Noah's Flood did happen. I understand scientists date the Black Sea rise thousands of years before Noah, but it doesn't mean the scientists are right. 22 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said: there is no evidence at all for that imaginary Gulf of Mexico flood. It is irresponsible to invent a flood just because you would like to have one. You'd be better off writing imaginary tales for little children, Sam. Something like Green Eggs and Ham, Sam. Robert, there is no need to use Atheist arguments. There is no scientific evidence for my "imaginary" flood theory, but the same is true for Noah's flood isn't it? We walk by faith. God doesn't need the permission of scientific evidence to perform his miracles. Mormon 9:9-11 says For do we not read that God is the same yesterday, today, and forever, and in him there is no variableness neither shadow of changing? 10 And now, if ye have imagined up unto yourselves a god who doth vary, and in whom there is shadow of changing, then have ye imagined up unto yourselves a god who is not a God of miracles. 11 But behold, I will show unto you a God of miracles, even the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob; and it is that same God who created the heavens and the earth, and all things that in them are. I believe in my flood theory because it explains many things, and for me it makes sense. 10 minutes ago, JLHPROF said: So when there's no recorded miracle we get to invent one? Cool. We have Mesoamerican flood myths and my flood theory explains many things. It is only my theory, I am not calling it official Mormon doctrine. Edited February 28, 2018 by SamuelTheLamanite
SamuelTheLamanite Posted February 28, 2018 Author Posted February 28, 2018 (edited) 22 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said: We don't know whether the Black Sea Flood is Noah's Flood, and there is no evidence at all for that imaginary Gulf of Mexico flood. Now the scientists are saying "Researchers generally agree that, during a warming period about 9,400 years ago, an onrush of seawater from the Mediterranean spurred a connection with the Black Sea...But the new study—largely focused on relatively undisturbed underwater fossils—suggests a rise of no more than 30 feet (10 meters)" We don't have scientific evidence for Noah's Flood, but we know it did happen. Robert, God is all powerful and can make the scientific evidence disappear to test our faith. With scientific evidence we wouldn't need faith. The Black Sea may or may not be Noah's Flood, but Noah's flood did happen somewhere in the Old World. Why is a great flood in the New World not possible? Edited February 28, 2018 by SamuelTheLamanite
Robert F. Smith Posted February 28, 2018 Posted February 28, 2018 27 minutes ago, SamuelTheLamanite said: Now the scientists are saying "Researchers generally agree that, during a warming period about 9,400 years ago, an onrush of seawater from the Mediterranean spurred a connection with the Black Sea...But the new study—largely focused on relatively undisturbed underwater fossils—suggests a rise of no more than 30 feet (10 meters)" We don't have scientific evidence for Noah's Flood, but we know it did happen. Robert, God is all powerful and can make the scientific evidence disappear to test our faith. With scientific evidence we wouldn't need faith. The Black Sea may or may not be Noah's Flood, but Noah's flood did happen somewhere in the Old World. Why is a great flood in the New World not possible? Trolling as usual, I see. Try some sincerity, Sam. I have no problem with the various theories about when and how the story of Noah's Flood got started, but it is ridiculous to suggest that God is a trickster, and that he has to stoop to childish abrogation of natural law. That is special pleading, and it is a fallacy. Next you'll be telling me that God is so powerful that he can create a rock so large that he can't lift it. Geology is what it is, Sam. You need to learn to live with it, instead of going into paroxysms of denial.
The Nehor Posted February 28, 2018 Posted February 28, 2018 3 hours ago, SamuelTheLamanite said: There is no scientific evidence for many events in the scriptures. There is no evidence for the great flood of Noah (four thousand years ago), no evidence for the Resurrection, no evidence for Adam and Eve, no evidence for turning wine into water. God doesn't need scientific evidences for his miracles. True, but you are arguing that the Nephite lands were flooded AFTER the Book of Mormon was finished. You are guessing that a flood happened. It is akin to me arguing that I believe God personally flew Jupiter into the solar system in defiance of gravity. There is no way to argue for or against the hypothesis but also no reason for anyone to believe it. Not because God couldn't do it but because there is no reason to believe it happened at all.
The Nehor Posted February 28, 2018 Posted February 28, 2018 37 minutes ago, SamuelTheLamanite said: Now the scientists are saying "Researchers generally agree that, during a warming period about 9,400 years ago, an onrush of seawater from the Mediterranean spurred a connection with the Black Sea...But the new study—largely focused on relatively undisturbed underwater fossils—suggests a rise of no more than 30 feet (10 meters)" We don't have scientific evidence for Noah's Flood, but we know it did happen. Robert, God is all powerful and can make the scientific evidence disappear to test our faith. With scientific evidence we wouldn't need faith. The Black Sea may or may not be Noah's Flood, but Noah's flood did happen somewhere in the Old World. Why is a great flood in the New World not possible? God could make all evidence disappear but can you suggest why God would do so?
Robert F. Smith Posted February 28, 2018 Posted February 28, 2018 51 minutes ago, SamuelTheLamanite said: Okay, but we do know Noah's Flood did happen. I understand scientists date the Black Sea rise thousands of years before Noah, but it doesn't mean the scientists are right. So when do you and the scientists date Noah? Was it before, during, or after the Black Sea event? 51 minutes ago, SamuelTheLamanite said: Robert, there is no need to use Atheist arguments. Then why are you using them? Your tactics as a provocateur are exactly what I would expect from someone who is not sincere. 51 minutes ago, SamuelTheLamanite said: There is no scientific evidence for my "imaginary" flood theory, but the same is true for Noah's flood isn't it? We walk by faith. God doesn't need the permission of scientific evidence to perform his miracles............................. God has to obey eternal law. He has no choice, unless you believe in the false Judeo-Christian-Muslim God who is outside time & space, and who invented all law. In that case, of course He can abrogate his own laws. The problem with such an irrational and paradoxical God is that He cannot exist. 51 minutes ago, SamuelTheLamanite said: I believe in my flood theory because it explains many things, and for me it makes sense. Well, it must be true then, on that basis alone. We can have our imaginary fun with your Green Eggs & Ham, Sam. 51 minutes ago, SamuelTheLamanite said: We have Mesoamerican flood myths and my flood theory explains many things. It is only my theory, I am not calling it official Mormon doctrine. Right. No need for geology. No need for fact. The world is whatever you say it is, Sam.
SamuelTheLamanite Posted February 28, 2018 Author Posted February 28, 2018 2 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said: Trolling as usual, I see. Try some sincerity, Sam Robert, many believe in the philosophy that God hides the evidence to test our faith. It is a possibility I won't rule out. I said the same thing here "I don't know, but many times in the scriptures God does test faith." http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/69525-no-position-on-god-how-evolution-works-according-to-science/?page=3 7 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said: I have no problem with the various theories about when and how the story of Noah's Flood got started, but it is ridiculous to suggest that God is a trickster, and that he has to stoop to childish abrogation of natural law. I didn't say God is playing games Robert, it could be an Abrahamic test. But it is another topic irrelevant to my point. Just because there is no evidence for the flood of Noah doesn't mean it didn't happen. 10 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said: Geology is what it is, Sam. You need to learn to live with it, instead of going into paroxysms of denial. What does geology have to say about the Flood of Noah?
Robert F. Smith Posted February 28, 2018 Posted February 28, 2018 4 minutes ago, SamuelTheLamanite said: Robert, many believe in the philosophy that God hides the evidence to test our faith. It is a possibility I won't rule out. I said the same thing here "I don't know, but many times in the scriptures God does test faith."..............................................I didn't say God is playing games Robert, it could be an Abrahamic test. Testing Abe's faith by seeing if he will obey is not the same as hiding evidence. Once again, you are adopting a dishonest anything-goes scenario. You are making God out to be a liar. A typical Protestant theological approach. 4 minutes ago, SamuelTheLamanite said: .............................Just because there is no evidence for the flood of Noah doesn't mean it didn't happen. What does geology have to say about the Flood of Noah? I never said that there was no evidence for the Noachic Flood. You have suggested the Black Sea event as explanatory, and I have suggested the great Pluvial rains as the ultimate source of the story. Both have left powerful geological evidence in their wake. Do you even know what geology is? Or are you just playing games?
SamuelTheLamanite Posted February 28, 2018 Author Posted February 28, 2018 13 minutes ago, The Nehor said: True, but you are arguing that the Nephite lands were flooded AFTER the Book of Mormon was finished. You are guessing that a flood happened. It is a just theory that explains many things. We do have the mesoamerican flood stories. 16 minutes ago, The Nehor said: It is akin to me arguing that I believe God personally flew Jupiter into the solar system in defiance of gravity. There is no way to argue for or against the hypothesis but also no reason for anyone to believe it. Not because God couldn't do it but because there is no reason to believe it happened at all. You told me because there is "no scientific evidence".
SamuelTheLamanite Posted February 28, 2018 Author Posted February 28, 2018 1 minute ago, Robert F. Smith said: I never said that there was no evidence for the Noachic Flood. You have suggested the Black Sea event as explanatory, and I have suggested the great Pluvial rains as the ultimate source of the story. Both have left powerful geological evidence in their wake. Do you even know what geology is? Or are you just playing games? I agree, but scientists date the black sea rise thousands of years before Noah and say a " study—largely focused on relatively undisturbed underwater fossils—suggests a rise of no more than 30 feet". For scientists there is no scientific evidence for the great flood of Noah. 3 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said: Testing Abe's faith by seeing if he will obey is not the same as hiding evidence. Once again, you are adopting a dishonest anything-goes scenario. You are making God out to be a liar. A typical Protestant theological approach. That is another topic Robert. Let's discuss it later.
Robert F. Smith Posted February 28, 2018 Posted February 28, 2018 53 minutes ago, SamuelTheLamanite said: I agree, but scientists date the black sea rise thousands of years before Noah and say a " study—largely focused on relatively undisturbed underwater fossils—suggests a rise of no more than 30 feet". For scientists there is no scientific evidence for the great flood of Noah. False. Scientists date both the Black Sea event and the great Pluvial rains. When do scientists date Noah? They don't. When do you date Noah, Dr Sam? Your imagination is dominating your discourse here, and you haven't the foggiest idea how to date Noah. 53 minutes ago, SamuelTheLamanite said: That is another topic Robert. Let's discuss it later. You are the one who brought the subject up, suggesting that God is a liar.
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