stemelbow Posted August 15, 2017 Author Posted August 15, 2017 3 minutes ago, katherine the great said: I'm just pointing out my own observations. In my particular field, I don't encounter many professional women who are involved in community or religion. Women in the workforce or have jobs, and are professional, in your experience don't get involved in the community like women who don't have jobs and aren't professionals? Alright.
stemelbow Posted August 15, 2017 Author Posted August 15, 2017 5 minutes ago, The Nehor said: It does not really relate to blessings. It is something that can be acquired through service through the Priesthood and entering the Priesthood Prder through the temple. So how is this power inside us/you made evident? If a blessing to those who have it, how can we recognize the blessing in another?
CV75 Posted August 15, 2017 Posted August 15, 2017 15 minutes ago, stemelbow said: I wish, but how does one recognize the power of godliness in another? Are you saying if one gives blessings the power is there? What about those blessings that are of none effect? The ones where promising of healing is made but then death or sickness worsens. I think we first have to recognize it in ourselves as follows (from D&C 84): “And this greater priesthood administereth the gospel and holdeth the key of the mysteries of the kingdom, even the key of the knowledge of God. Therefore, in the ordinances thereof, the power of godliness is manifest. And without the ordinances thereof, and the authority of the priesthood, the power of godliness is not manifest unto men in the flesh; For without this no man can see the face of God, even the Father, and live. Now this Moses plainly taught to the children of Israel in the wilderness, and sought diligently to sanctify his people that they might behold the face of God…” When you receive the ordinances, make the covenants, and keep them, you will find the power of godliness in your life and recognize it in others. Before you receive these things, you will find the power of God in your your conscience (the light of Christ), but there is yet more than that, for that alone will not allow you to obtain “the knowledge of God,” and even “see the face of God,” or the fulness of the power of godliness. This fulness comes only by the gift and companionship of the Holy Ghost, which sanctifies us, which comes to us in this world by the administration of the greater priesthood. All blessings are contingent on the will of God, but even in death and sickness one can obtain “the knowledge of God,” and “see the face of God” in no other way.
The Nehor Posted August 15, 2017 Posted August 15, 2017 15 minutes ago, stemelbow said: So how is this power inside us/you made evident? If a blessing to those who have it, how can we recognize the blessing in another? by being godly enough to recognize godliness. 1
pogi Posted August 15, 2017 Posted August 15, 2017 37 minutes ago, stemelbow said: So how is this power inside us/you made evident? If a blessing to those who have it, how can we recognize the blessing in another? God himself came to earth and lived among men. Most people did not/could not recognize the power within him. It was not made evident to them, but Christ knew it. That knowledge of who he was gave him incredible power and confidence to fulfill his mission. 3
stemelbow Posted August 15, 2017 Author Posted August 15, 2017 1 hour ago, The Nehor said: by being godly enough to recognize godliness. Akind of elitist unseeable brotherhood, I guess. Interesting.
stemelbow Posted August 15, 2017 Author Posted August 15, 2017 50 minutes ago, pogi said: God himself came to earth and lived among men. Most people did not/could not recognize the power within him. It was not made evident to them, but Christ knew it. That knowledge of who he was gave him incredible power and confidence to fulfill his mission. What blessing did Peter, and John have over everyone else who apparently was unable to see the power of God within God?
The Nehor Posted August 15, 2017 Posted August 15, 2017 11 minutes ago, stemelbow said: Akind of elitist unseeable brotherhood, I guess. Interesting. I hear they also throw cool secret parties.
stemelbow Posted August 15, 2017 Author Posted August 15, 2017 6 minutes ago, The Nehor said: I hear they also throw cool secret parties. What? You speak as if you're in it. Now it's just that you hear it? You're just repeating what you've been told without knowing what you're repeating is true? hm....The Nehor...whatever are we to do with you?
The Nehor Posted August 15, 2017 Posted August 15, 2017 8 minutes ago, stemelbow said: What? You speak as if you're in it. Now it's just that you hear it? You're just repeating what you've been told without knowing what you're repeating is true? hm....The Nehor...whatever are we to do with you? I am only a second level initiate. You do not get invited to the parties until at least the fourth level. Seriously, I have met godly people. They are kind and wonderful and practical and very nice but what makes them different is an otherworldly air about them. Not in a crazy sense; they just do not fit in this world. I do not think I am one of them.
stemelbow Posted August 15, 2017 Author Posted August 15, 2017 34 minutes ago, The Nehor said: I am only a second level initiate. You do not get invited to the parties until at least the fourth level. Seriously, I have met godly people. They are kind and wonderful and practical and very nice but what makes them different is an otherworldly air about them. Not in a crazy sense; they just do not fit in this world. I do not think I am one of them. Seriously? Ok. The club of Sheldon coopers. I hear ya. They're frustrating because the rest of us can't relate, but they're somewhere else, singing a hymn in their heads while you talk to them, giving you only a portion of their attention because they are beyond you.
The Nehor Posted August 15, 2017 Posted August 15, 2017 Just now, stemelbow said: Seriously? Ok. The club of Sheldon coopers. I hear ya. They're frustrating because the rest of us can't relate, but they're somewhere else, singing a hymn in their heads while you talk to them, giving you only a portion of their attention because they are beyond you. No, not a detached out of touch with reality otherworldliness. Never mind. Pearls and all that......
stemelbow Posted August 15, 2017 Author Posted August 15, 2017 2 minutes ago, The Nehor said: No, not a detached out of touch with reality otherworldliness. Never mind. Pearls and all that...... Well you gots no pearls, as you say. So there's nothing to toss before this pig--other than I'm guessing these nice people who are not really there are really a special in God's eyes bunch because, well, they seem nicer than me...or something.
The Nehor Posted August 15, 2017 Posted August 15, 2017 3 minutes ago, stemelbow said: Well you gots no pearls, as you say. So there's nothing to toss before this pig--other than I'm guessing these nice people who are not really there are really a special in God's eyes bunch because, well, they seem nicer than me...or something. No.
pogi Posted August 15, 2017 Posted August 15, 2017 31 minutes ago, stemelbow said: What blessing did Peter, and John have over everyone else who apparently was unable to see the power of God within God? I am not sure exactly what you are asking. Are you asking what made them able to see what others could not? Or, are you asking what blessings did they receive for recognizing and following the savior and redeemer, the fount of living waters, the bread of life, the possessor of the words of eternal life ("to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.") etc., and be endowed with His power/authority and called to his work to serve along side Him in building the kingdom of God? The parable of the sewer gives the answer to the first question. The answer to the second question is a given, isn't it? Which is more empowering, to know that you are a literal child of God - a God in eutero, with the inherent ability to become like Him? Or, anything else (you choose)? 1
stemelbow Posted August 15, 2017 Author Posted August 15, 2017 9 minutes ago, The Nehor said: No. Gotcha. It was all a good try for both of us, I guess.
stemelbow Posted August 15, 2017 Author Posted August 15, 2017 1 minute ago, pogi said: I am not sure exactly what you are asking. Are you asking what made them able to see what others could not? Or, are you asking what blessings did they receive for recognizing and following the savior and redeemer, the fount of living waters, the bread of life, the possessor of the words of eternal life ("to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.") etc., and be endowed with His power/authority and called to his work to serve along side Him in building the kingdom of God? The parable of the sewer gives the answer to the first question. The answer to the second question is a given, isn't it? Which is more empowering, to know that you are a literal child of God - a God in eutero, with the inherent ability to become like Him? Or, anything else (you choose)? What benefit was it to them in eternity? What profited them over others?
katherine the great Posted August 15, 2017 Posted August 15, 2017 3 hours ago, stemelbow said: Women in the workforce or have jobs, and are professional, in your experience don't get involved in the community like women who don't have jobs and aren't professionals? Alright. As I stated, in my field I see very little of that.
pogi Posted August 15, 2017 Posted August 15, 2017 4 minutes ago, stemelbow said: What benefit was it to them in eternity? What profited them over others? "Whatever principle of intelligence we attain unto in this life, it will rise with us in the resurrection. And if a person gains more knowledge and intelligence in this life through his diligence and obedience than another, he will have so much the advantage in the world to come (D&C 130:18-19)." 1
stemelbow Posted August 15, 2017 Author Posted August 15, 2017 Just now, pogi said: "Whatever principle of intelligence we attain unto in this life, it will rise with us in the resurrection. And if a person gains more knowledge and intelligence in this life through his diligence and obedience than another, he will have so much the advantage in the world to come (D&C 130:18-19)." So God advantages some. I wonder on what basis. Surely someone in the world during Jesus' ministry were as noble in terms of humanity as Peter or Judas. No?
stemelbow Posted August 15, 2017 Author Posted August 15, 2017 3 minutes ago, katherine the great said: As I stated, in my field I see very little of that. I hear ya. THanks for answering.
pogi Posted August 15, 2017 Posted August 15, 2017 9 minutes ago, stemelbow said: So God advantages some. I wonder on what basis. Surely someone in the world during Jesus' ministry were as noble in terms of humanity as Peter or Judas. No? Were others as noble or qualified? One is free to speculate, but only God knows and looks on the hearts of men, while we judge by outward appearances. You can choose to answer that question however you want, but just know that your judgment is lacking. Also, don't forget the doctrine of foreordination, and that any advantage that one has in this life was probably earned in the previous life. God does not arbitrarily advantage one over another. He is no respecter of persons. He calls whom he calls for a reason, and those chosen are chosen for a reason. 1
stemelbow Posted August 15, 2017 Author Posted August 15, 2017 59 minutes ago, pogi said: Were others as noble or qualified? One is free to speculate, but only God knows and looks on the hearts of men, while we judge by outward appearances. You can choose to answer that question however you want, but just know that your judgment is lacking. Also, don't forget the doctrine of foreordination, and that any advantage that one has in this life was probably earned in the previous life. God does not arbitrarily advantage one over another. He is no respecter of persons. He calls whom he calls for a reason, and those chosen are chosen for a reason. Ok. I don't buy what you buy, but that's ok. Thanks for answering.
pogi Posted August 15, 2017 Posted August 15, 2017 18 minutes ago, stemelbow said: Ok. I don't buy what you buy, but that's ok. Thanks for answering. What do you buy then? Why did Christ and his disciples proselyte if none of it matters in the end?
stemelbow Posted August 15, 2017 Author Posted August 15, 2017 24 minutes ago, pogi said: What do you buy then? Why did Christ and his disciples proselyte if none of it matters in the end? I don't buy that premise either. But I do question the historicity of the story telling we get from the NT, to some extent and another.
Recommended Posts