Saints and the Latter Days

[Bernard Gui]

17 hours ago, carbon dioxide said:

For the most part that is true and for good reason.  The world that we live in does change a lot.  What is the world but modern day Babylon and Satan stands at the tip of the spear moving society in the direction he wants it.  The Church and the members can't get sucked into it.  This will continue for a while but eventually it will all come crashing down.  A day will come when people will have but two choices.  Flee to Zion or take up the sword and kill each other. 

Tevye in "Fiddler on the Roof" had to deal with this. It eventually resulted in eventually having to accept the marriage of his daughter to a non-believer.

Quote

Tevye: 
They gave each other a pledge. Unheard of, absurd.
You gave each other a pledge? 
Unthinkable. Where do you think you are? 
In Moscow? In Paris? Where do think they are? America? 
And what do you think you're doing?
You stitcher, you nothing! Who do think you are? King Solomon? 
This isn't the way it's done, not here, not now. 
Some things I will not, I cannot, allow. 
Tradtion-Marriages must be arranged by the papa. This should never changed. 
One little time you pull out a prop, and where does it stop? Where does it stop?

Where does it stop? 
Do I still have something to say about my daughter, 
or doesn't anybody have to ask the father any more.....

 

Papa, I've been looking everywhere for you.
Papa, stop! At least listen to me!
Papa. I beg you to accept us.

Accept them? How can I accept them?
Can I deny everything I believe in?
On the other hand, can I deny my own daughter?
On the other hand, how can I turn my back on my faith, my people?
If I try and bend that far, I'll break.
On the other hand...
No. There is no other hand.
No, Chava! No!

I suppose the trick is to determine what is traditional and what is doctrinal, but that line seems to be getting more blurred. 

Edited July 7, 2017 by Bernard Gui

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Danzo said:

 

I really wish you would actually read the account, rather than cherry pick quotes from articles.  You might actually learn something.  Had you read the entire article, you might have found quotes like

"On top of everything, it was discovered too late that the first batch of vaccine, given to fifteen hundred people, was defective." (page 11) and

"Vaccination was an effective preventive—even Mormon elders did not dispute that"  (page 11).

Did you find this quote on your own research and forgot to read the rest of the article or did you know about the other quotes and just wanted to deceive?

Vaccinations weren't tested as well before they were given out...or rather giving out was one of the test phases.  For the polio vaccine, I have mentioned this before...my neighbour' first grade class was one of the first groups given.  One or maybe a few years later, out of the entire class, all but four were dead and of the four, only my neighbour could still walk.  He has had significant health issues (pain) all of his life since then.

There was good reason in the past not to be the 'first on the block' to receive new medical treatments and instead wait until it was fine tuned.  In many cases it meant crippling or death.

[Bernard Gui]

3 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

You seem to be saying that the future is going to be worse than the present. Is this accurate? If so, do you believe, then, that the past was better than the present?

I think Neil Maxwell's prophecy is pertinent to your question and this discussion. Would you agree that the same could be said of Catholics and the Pope?

Quote

'Make no mistake about it, brothers and sisters, in the months and years ahead, events are likely to require each member to decide whether or not he will follow the First Presidency....President Marion G. Romney said, many years ago, that he had 'never hesitated to follow the counsel of the Authorities of the Church even though it crossed my social, professional or political life.'

'This is hard doctrine, but it is particularly vital doctrine in a society which is becoming more wicked. In short, brothers and sisters, not being ashamed of the gospel of Jesus Christ includes not being ashamed of the prophets of Jesus Christ. . . . Your discipleship may see the time when such religious convictions are discounted. . . . This new irreligious imperialism seeks to disallow certain opinions simply because those opinions grow out of religious convictions.

'Resistance to abortion will be seen as primitive. Concern over the institution of the family will be viewed as untrendy and unenlightened....Before the ultimate victory of the forces of righteousness, some skirmishes will be lost. Even in these, however, let us leave a record so that the choices are clear, letting others do as they will in the face of prophetic counsel....Jesus said that when the fig trees put forth their leaves, 'summer is nigh.' Thus warned that summer is upon us, let us not then complain of the heat.'

 

[Bernard Gui]

This message also applies...

Quote

Just as Elder Maxwell prophesied, the day has come when some members of the Church feel that the counsel of the First Presidency and the Twelve is politically incorrect, does not coincide with commonly accepted values or beliefs, or does not appeal to their own beliefs or inclinations. They say in their own hearts, 'I don't agree with this;' or 'The Brethren do not understand the situation;' or 'I believe our leaders are inspired, but not on this point.' These are dangerous statements that put our spiritual safety and that of our posterity in jeopardy.

https://caribbean.lds.org/messages/loyalty-to-the-first-presidency

 

Edited July 7, 2017 by Bernard Gui

[pogi]

2 hours ago, Calm said:

Vaccinations weren't tested as well before they were given out...or rather giving out was one of the test phases.  For the polio vaccine, I have mentioned this before...my neighbour' first grade class was one of the first groups given.  One or maybe a few years later, out of the entire class, all but four were dead and of the four, only my neighbour could still walk.  He has had significant health issues (pain) all of his life since then.

There was good reason in the past not to be the 'first on the block' to receive new medical treatments and instead wait until it was fine tuned.  In many cases it meant crippling or death.

Even today it could be argued that you don't want to be the 'first on the block' to receive a new medical treatment or vaccine.  Just think of all of the lawyer commercials on TV that state "if you have taken _____ medication, or _____ procedure, or had ____ medical device inserted and have experienced ____, ______, ______, or "death", call us today...

Clinical trials never really give us a comprehensive picture of the potential risks of the medicine in the real world.  For a vaccine example, the first iteration of the rotavirus vaccine caused intussusception in about 1 out of every 4,670 to 9,474 infants vaccinated.  That is an unacceptably high risk for a vaccine that prevents a relatively benign infection in the US.  Intussusception is a very serious and life threatening bowel blockage that can compromise blood flow to the area and may require surgery and can be fatal.  The vaccine was later taken off the market, but the risk was only discovered after being approved by the FDA and mass distributed to the public as a recommended vaccine. 

Believe it or not, vaccines can be mass distributed in the US without ever being tested, studied, or approved by the FDA.  The current yellow fever vaccine is in very short supply across the country due to problems with manufacturing.  We only have about a 1-2 week supply left at my clinic.  Once it is gone, it is gone and there is no FDA approved alternative.  Anyone traveling to a risk area in the next year who wants protection from yellow fever will essentially have to be a guinea pig to a non-licensed vaccine.  This vaccine has never been tested with US residents.  It has been studied and licensed in several other countries and is expected to have a similar safety profile to the current yellow fever vaccine, but we won't know for sure.  Different vaccines can react in completely different ways in different populations.  For example, the early rotavirus vaccine had a 10 fold increased risk for intussusception in some developing countries, so vaccines really need to be location specific studies.  However the new yellow fever vaccine has never been tested or studied in our population and yet it is available to the public.  Of course, recipients will have to sign a consent form, but the whole process is kind of backwards. 

[Robert F. Smith]

10 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

Yet I regularly hear local authorities express their preference for printed materials and encouraging others to put away the screens.

They are out of harmony with the Brethren.