Senior Members Who Are Single

[bluebell]

If two people sincerely fall in love and want to be together, I think that can work even with a big age difference.  But, to target people who could be your children as romantic partners and purposefully shun those who are your age equals is creepy.

[strappinglad]

The ladies here seem to think that marriage is a one way proposition. Old guys can pursue younger women all they want, but the woman has the freedom to decide yes or no. It may seem ' creepy ' , but if the woman has the freedom and the desire to agree to what appears to be a mutually beneficial arrangement , who are we to slam the door? Contrary to popular opinion, romantic love has only recently been a reason to marry. It was first and foremost a ' business deal ' beneficial to both families and often involved an older more established male and a younger female. With modern women's growing independence, the reverse now is showing up. The worry to society , in my opinion, is the low rate of marriage in the broader population. It has declined markedly over the past few decades. Men are finding marriage less attractive and economically they are at a severe disadvantage when it comes to divorce. The number of single mothers left to fend for themselves because of a love 'em and leave 'em attitude among males and a complicit society that praises the brave single moms who are actually statistically dooming their children to a life of poverty and crime , has greatly increased. Over 70 % of homes in the black community are now without a father figure. Hispanic homes are a ways behind with about 40% , and whites run about 25%. But hey, lets get all atwitter about a few 60+ year old men who are looking for a younger caretaker female . I mean....ew !

 I've watched documentaries about the marriage situation in China and Japan. Boy, is that a demographic tsunami rolling in  , in the next couple of decades. In Japan, males are abandoning marriage and even relationships with females altogether in favor of jobs and virtual reality games. Schools all over rural Japan are closing because of a drought of children.

Edited December 11, 2016 by strappinglad

[bluebell]

2 hours ago, strappinglad said:

The ladies here seem to think that marriage is a one way proposition. Old guys can pursue younger women all they want, but the woman has the freedom to decide yes or no. It may seem ' creepy ' , but if the woman has the freedom and the desire to agree to what appears to be a mutually beneficial arrangement , who are we to slam the door? Contrary to popular opinion, romantic love has only recently been a reason to marry. It was first and foremost a ' business deal ' beneficial to both families and often involved an older more established male and a younger female. With modern women's growing independence, the reverse now is showing up. The worry to society , in my opinion, is the low rate of marriage in the broader population. It has declined markedly over the past few decades. Men are finding marriage less attractive and economically they are at a severe disadvantage when it comes to divorce. The number of single mothers left to fend for themselves because of a love 'em and leave 'em attitude among males and a complicit society that praises the brave single moms who are actually statistically dooming their children to a life of poverty and crime , has greatly increased. Over 70 % of homes in the black community are now without a father figure. Hispanic homes are a ways behind with about 40% , and whites run about 25%. But hey, lets get all atwitter about a few 60+ year old men who are looking for a younger caretaker female . I mean....ew !

 I've watched documentaries about the marriage situation in China and Japan. Boy, is that a demographic tsunami rolling in  , in the next couple of decades. In Japan, males are abandoning marriage and even relationships with females altogether in favor of jobs and virtual reality games. Schools all over rural Japan are closing because of a drought of children.

Most men probably don't want to be loved for their bank account just like most women probably don't want to be loved for their nursing/mothering grown men skills, but if someone is willing to settle for so little and makes that arrangement then that's their choice.  But hopefully the parties involved are honest enough to be open about what they are wanting and aren't entering the union under false pretenses.  

I'm guessing that doesn't happen often.  I doubt many women go up to men and says "I'm interested in dating you because you have a lot of money that want after you die" and most older men probably don't say "I'm interested in dating you because i'm looking for someone who will take care of me that i won't have to take care of and who still looks good naked."

My 'yuck' factor kicks in though when some men see themselves, at their age, as having something to offer a wife while seeing women the same age as having nothing worth pursuing.

[Marmonboy]

Studies have shown that women are in fact attracted to men who: 1) drive nice cars, 2) are in great physical shape,  3) have higher perceived soial status, 4) spend more money, etc. Note that this is for society at large, not necessarily the LDS community, which introduces, 5)  who are perceived as being more spiritual. It's not about who will be the perfect mate, but who will be the perfect date. Men also have their preferences, which tend to revolve around physical attractiveness. Both sexes seem to be looking for who will fit the gender roles best, with men being strong providers, and women as mothers and nurturers. Also note that much of this is innate, not really a conscious thing at all. People are attracted to each other mostly on an instinctual level (although there is some conscious choice in there as well.)

[Jeanne]

16 hours ago, 3DOP said:

That is what I was wondering.

And why would a young woman of sound mind and body want a man her father's age?

And what about old gals?...I mean single sisters...as you call them...Who are they supposed to marry? Do they set their caps for children of the previous generation too?

I think you haven't established whether it is a myth or whether it is icky for old men to be going after women who are young enough to be their daughters. I vote icky. I am 60. I have had my children. Now it is their turn to have my grandchildren, not my children.

3DOP

Thank you..thank you...ya  know..some of us ol' ladies wearing aprons are almost cute...and we know what real life is all about..there are things we know that young pups don't even have a clue..

[Calm]

5 hours ago, strappinglad said:

The ladies here seem to think that marriage is a one way proposition.

[Calm]

For some reason, not allowing me to add my own text to the above...

I think you are actually reading it the opposite of what the women in this thread are saying.  They want marriage to be a true companionship, to have much in common besides needing to be cared for...to be able to share a common perspective of experiences, being able to communicate better because of shared backgrounds, to live shared lives and not separate ones because physical abilities as well as cultural experiences are so dramatically different.  In the past in most cultures, men and women lived in different spheres, so having commonalities in order to deepen a sense of companionship wasn't really relevant.  In this day and age where many see the ideal of marriage as having your spouse be your best friend, it is much more important.

Edited December 11, 2016 by Calm

[Calm]

2 hours ago, Marmonboy said:

Studies have shown that women are in fact attracted to men who: 1) drive nice cars, 2) are in great physical shape,  3) have higher perceived soial status, 4) spend more money, etc. Note that this is for society at large, not necessarily the LDS community, which introduces, 5)  who are perceived as being more spiritual. It's not about who will be the perfect mate, but who will be the perfect date. Men also have their preferences, which tend to revolve around physical attractiveness. Both sexes seem to be looking for who will fit the gender roles best, with men being strong providers, and women as mothers and nurturers. Also note that much of this is innate, not really a conscious thing at all. People are attracted to each other mostly on an instinctual level (although there is some conscious choice in there as well.)

It probably depends a great deal on the age and experience of the woman as what is important to people changes over their lifetime.  Having a great car probably matters a lot less to a man or woman who no longer drives much.  Social status needs can shrink if one's social world narrows due to limited locomotion.  Spending money generally means less as one becomes comfortable with one's life.  

A woman who sees society valuing your list in men is more likely to look for that than a woman who is taught other things are important.  For example, I have heard men moaning about not being able to get a date because of not having gone on a mission or to the temple.  Also complaints that others will only date those they perceive as potential eternal mates...so I strongly disagree that in LDS learned culture the focus is on the perfect date, but instead this too is part of what the culture teaches to value most in those one is attracted to. The variations in LDS culture are because our culture has evolved to value those things highly.  "Instinct" in humans is learned to a great extent.

Edited December 11, 2016 by Calm

[Marmonboy]

I agree that the dating game is skewed somewhat in the LDS community, hence my addition of a spirituality component.  But I went to BYU, and I saw how the game was played (although I could never master it)  and those factors that I brought up in my post above, absolutely applied.

 

[Calm]

BYU isn't usually the 30-40 crowd being discussed in the OP.

[Marmonboy]

Yeah, but people don't suddenly change when they hit 30. Human nature is what it is.

[Calm]

You really don't think priorities change as people age and different needs develop and as they have more experience to figure out what is actually satisfying to them and what isn't? Not meant as a slam or anything, just trying to grasp that perspective, would you mind telling me how old you are?

add-on, never mind, I see you are older than I am. . Maybe I just hang out with more thoughtful people.

People do change as they age and this affects their choices/priorities:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/mr-personality/201410/why-are-older-people-more-conservative

And why people change:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/change/201307/what-really-leads-change-in-people-s-lives

Even in becoming 'unable to change', change occurs.  My mom has reached an age and state where she freaks out if asked to do something new where once she would be happy to try things that made life easier or more exciting, such as travel....just this Friday trying to learn how to work her phone (which amounted to pushing a button where she didn't on her previous one) set off an anxiety attack where she lost track of the fact she was using the very phone she was suddenly worried she had lost.  She refuses to use the microwave and dishwasher because it is too complicated to learn...and yet two years ago she was using a dishwasher and microwave.  I have talked about the elderly "crystallizing" so they refuse to accept or act to change, but this means a fundamental change in most natures as they were willing to change before and reality isn't that they aren't changing, but they are as they choose at times or forced upon them at others to change their wide world of involvement for a much narrower one.

When speaking about the choices of "seniors", there is usually a dramatically different set of needs and priorities involved, if only because older people are less likely to take risks.

Edited December 12, 2016 by Calm

[Marmonboy]

:People do change, whether they want to or not, and oftimes without even realizing it. It is better to stick with one's own generation for a whole host of reasons. I just don't want to be that creepy old guy that grandma is dating. Ah, well, the single life for me--I'm pretty much of a loner anyway.

[Calm]

Our society is changing, 20 years from now I think older dating couples isn't going to be that big of a deal.

[cipriano]

14 hours ago, strappinglad said:

The ladies here seem to think that marriage is a one way proposition. Old guys can pursue younger women all they want, but the woman has the freedom to decide yes or no. It may seem ' creepy ' , but if the woman has the freedom and the desire to agree to what appears to be a mutually beneficial arrangement , who are we to slam the door? Contrary to popular opinion, romantic love has only recently been a reason to marry. It was first and foremost a ' business deal ' beneficial to both families and often involved an older more established male and a younger female. With modern women's growing independence, the reverse now is showing up. The worry to society , in my opinion, is the low rate of marriage in the broader population. It has declined markedly over the past few decades. Men are finding marriage less attractive and economically they are at a severe disadvantage when it comes to divorce. The number of single mothers left to fend for themselves because of a love 'em and leave 'em attitude among males and a complicit society that praises the brave single moms who are actually statistically dooming their children to a life of poverty and crime , has greatly increased. Over 70 % of homes in the black community are now without a father figure. Hispanic homes are a ways behind with about 40% , and whites run about 25%. But hey, lets get all atwitter about a few 60+ year old men who are looking for a younger caretaker female . I mean....ew !

Ronald Reagan signed in the Nations first "No-Fault Divorce" law. That was in California 1970, and by 2010 all states had passed these laws. Call me a traditionalist, but I think No-Fault divorce has been a disaster for the U.S.

[JAHS]

Here's Elder Richard G Scott's opinion on the matter for himself:

When you get it right the first time, you don’t want to mess it up with a second time. We are so close and love each other so very much that I don’t have any feeling of need to remarry. I recognize that for some men there’s a very strong support they require from a wife, and so they remarry, and I don’t question that for them. Jeanene and I prepared each other in all the ways we could think of for being able to survive well when one of us passed through the veil, and I wish she hadn’t been the first one, but that’s the way it worked out."

Right now I feel pretty much the way he did. Of course I don't consider myself single, so I suppose how one feels about it can be a different, depending on whether one is single because they never married, or were divorced, or widowed.

Edited December 12, 2016 by JAHS

[emeliza]

I think the age of the widow or widower comes majorly into play.  At 38, the idea of remarrying seems horrible, but so does spending the next 40ish years alone. If I was in my late 60s or older, it might seem lonely, but more tolerable.

[bluebell]

If someone is looking for a love interest 30 years younger than they are, they might want to keep this in mind.  

A study conducted by Emory University in Atlanta, Georgia consisted of over 3,000 interviews and resulted in a simple finding: the bigger the age gap, the more likely a breakup. Also true? The smaller the age gap, the more likely they were to stay together. Big age differences in a couple are positively correlated with losing love, bot choosing someone who is your age, or at least super close to it, is more likely to lead to lingering love. 

To break it down: When compared to an equal-age couple, those with a 5 year age gap are 18% more likely to split. When that same equal-age couple group was compared to those with a 10 year gap, the breakup statistic went up to a staggering 39%.

[Marmonboy]

I can see that--the farther apart they are, the less they have in common, which makes it even more challenging to find a reason to stay together.

[bluebell]

49 minutes ago, Marmonboy said:

I can see that--the farther apart they are, the less they have in common, which makes it even more challenging to find a reason to stay together.

I think that parent/child relationships (marriages where one spouse behaves like the parent and the other behaves like the child) are also really difficult to maintain and large age gaps tend to increase the chances of such a relationship developing (not that it has to end up that way, but...)

[Calm]

Communication is key to a relationship of any kind, but especially marriage.  Bigger age gaps can, IMO, increase communication issues, both because of the changes in culture over time (think of a five year gap where the younger partner was of the age group that communicates so much through texting, etc. with someone older who is expecting more direct interaction or a bigger gap where the older man refuses to use a cell phone while his younger partner is used to frequent checking ins and sees the lack of continuous contact as neglect), communication skills and habits developing over time (the younger tending to be more adaptable may feel the older one is not as willing to give to the relationship), and of course interests...someone approaching retirement in a few years or who is already retired may have a very different view of life as someone who feels they want to be highly committed to their career for many years to come (as a 58 year old with a husband at 61, I am definitely looking at and reacting to his involvement in his work differently and so is he, especially when office politics come into play...does he devote great effort, resources, and time to long term projects and programs he may have to leave midway without there being any guarantee that someone will pick up the task to finish it and instead it quickly fades away without making much impact, we have already seen it happen to a well established program where the person who took over managing it dropped the ball and it lost momentum and took years to recover it).

A successful marriage generally requires partners who are supportive of each other's choices.  If one values family, work, church for too different reasons, it may be hard to fully support the other's involvement in it (why sacrifice heavily for work if one looks on it as something to be left behind) or get fully emotionally behind them and instead at best are rather passive, which is often interpreted as resistance and negativity from what I have seen by both men and women.  Why sacrifice for children if one believes one will not be able to properly care for them or isn't interested in the constant parenting role because they don't see the other end of it or fear their children will still need care from them when they are at a point they should be getting care themselves (of course, this last is more likely for much larger age gaps).

[Marmonboy]

41 minutes ago, Calm said:

 

A successful marriage generally requires partners who are supportive of each other's choices.  If one values family, work, church for too different reasons, it may be hard to fully support the other's involvement in it (why sacrifice heavily for work if one looks on it as something to be left behind) or get fully emotionally behind them and instead at best are rather passive, which is often interpreted as resistance and negativity from what I have seen by both men and women.  Why sacrifice for children if one believes one will not be able to properly care for them or isn't interested in the constant parenting role because they don't see the other end of it or fear their children will still need care from them when they are at a point they should be getting care themselves (of course, this last is more likely for much larger age gaps).

This is exactly where my wife and I are--we just look at life differently. She has moved out of state to pursue business interests and I'm stuck here trying to run her failed business, sell the house, etc. The plan was for me to ultimately move there, but she is so focused on how much we don't see things eye-to-eye that I am reluctant to go there. I like it here, and don't want to move into a war zone. I am not her perfect man, I never have been, but now the air is so poisoned that this time I think it's over. And we are exactly 3 days apart in age, so sticking with someone your own age ain't always ideal.

[Calm]

8 minutes ago, Marmonboy said:

This is exactly where my wife and I are--we just look at life differently. She has moved out of state to pursue business interests and I'm stuck here trying to run her failed business, sell the house, etc. The plan was for me to ultimately move there, but she is so focused on how much we don't see things eye-to-eye that I am reluctant to go there. I like it here, and don't want to move into a war zone. I am not her perfect man, I never have been, but now the air is so poisoned that this time I think it's over. And we are exactly 3 days apart in age, so sticking with someone your own age ain't always ideal.

I am sorry to hear this.  Age definitely isn't a guarantee.

[hagoth7]

6 hours ago, Marmonboy said:

...I am not her perfect man, I never have been, but now the air is so poisoned that this time I think it's over. And we are exactly 3 days apart in age, so sticking with someone your own age ain't always ideal.

Understood.

We were born less than 90 days apart.

Now, after decades of marriage, that chapter is slated to end this month.

Edited December 13, 2016 by hagoth7

[Marmonboy]

1 hour ago, hagoth7 said:

Understood.

We were born less than 90 days apart.

Now, after decades of marriage, that chapter is slated to end this month.

I'm sorry to hear that, brother. We just passed our 32nd anniversary. I feel your pain.