rodheadlee Posted October 13, 2016 Posted October 13, 2016 (edited) On 10/1/2016 at 8:40 PM, Johnnie Cake said: All good drivers use their rear view mirrors Nehor, to avoid obstacles Only if you're driving in reverse. Edited October 13, 2016 by rodheadlee 1
BCSpace Posted October 13, 2016 Posted October 13, 2016 On 10/7/2016 at 9:54 AM, Bob Crockett said: An informal survey I once made showed that Mormon Doctrine and Joseph Fielding Smith's similar work, "Doctrines of Salvation" are the two most frequently quoted works in General Conference addresses. It just goes to show that in Mormon sermons by General Authorities, it doesn't matter much what is "canonical" or "doctrinal" as the Church is not so hide-bound. The Church's "no-position" position on evolution came about a hundred years ago and has remained the Church's position ever since, but there are many General Authorities who see it otherwise. Doesn't matter if they are quoted in GC. That only makes that particular quote doctrine if the Church publishes it.
mfbukowski Posted October 13, 2016 Posted October 13, 2016 1 hour ago, BCSpace said: Doesn't matter if they are quoted in GC. That only makes that particular quote doctrine if the Church publishes it. There are unpublished GC talks? Even if they were wouldn't they be "published by the church" merely by being given in conference? Of course we disagree on what constitutes doctrine, but I am just asking how that is consistent with your definition, not mine 1
thesometimesaint Posted October 13, 2016 Posted October 13, 2016 To be doctrine the Church has to say it is doctrine. 1
Johnnie Cake Posted October 13, 2016 Posted October 13, 2016 10 hours ago, rodheadlee said: Only if you're driving in reverse. Exmormon's use them when we change lanes...we're aware that there are blind spots that need to be avoided and taken into consideration when driving
rodheadlee Posted October 14, 2016 Posted October 14, 2016 (edited) 12 hours ago, Johnnie Cake said: Exmormon's use them when we change lanes...we're aware that there are blind spots that need to be avoided and taken into consideration when driving I just drive faster than everybody else and when i want to change lanes, i just pick spot I know is empty. My car has huge blind spots even with all the mirrors. Edited October 14, 2016 by rodheadlee
BCSpace Posted October 23, 2016 Posted October 23, 2016 On 10/13/2016 at 0:24 AM, mfbukowski said: There are unpublished GC talks? Even if they were wouldn't they be "published by the church" merely by being given in conference? Of course we disagree on what constitutes doctrine, but I am just asking how that is consistent with your definition, not mine It has to be published, not just delivered at the pulpit. Consider the fact that sometimes talks are corrected after delivery before they are published (and I'm sure you can think of a recent example). So yes, I am consistent and the Church indeed has a sound policy on doctrine.
mfbukowski Posted October 24, 2016 Posted October 24, 2016 On 10/13/2016 at 7:31 AM, thesometimesaint said: To be doctrine the Church has to say it is doctrine. How do you know that is doctrinal?
mfbukowski Posted October 24, 2016 Posted October 24, 2016 6 hours ago, BCSpace said: It has to be published, not just delivered at the pulpit. Consider the fact that sometimes talks are corrected after delivery before they are published (and I'm sure you can think of a recent example). So yes, I am consistent and the Church indeed has a sound policy on doctrine. And you get all this from the newsroom press release?
changed Posted October 24, 2016 Posted October 24, 2016 35 But only an account of this earth, and the inhabitants thereof, give I unto you. For behold, there are many worlds that have passed away by the word of my power. And there are many that now stand, and innumerable are they unto man; but all things are numbered unto me, for they are mine and I know them. Evolution just involves other worlds which have passed away - I would not expect that the church would have any official position about what worlds existed before ours. We are only given an account of this earth, this world, this time period.
thesometimesaint Posted October 24, 2016 Posted October 24, 2016 10 hours ago, mfbukowski said: How do you know that is doctrinal? SEEhttp://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/approaching-mormon-doctrine
mfbukowski Posted October 24, 2016 Posted October 24, 2016 6 minutes ago, thesometimesaint said: SEEhttp://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/approaching-mormon-doctrine Yep It doesn't say that of course. I will emphasze phrases to help you understand First of all note that it is questionable that this statement itself is "doctrine"- Quote Not every statement made by a Church leader, past or present, necessarily constitutes doctrine. A single statement made by a single leader on a single occasion often represents a personal, though well-considered, opinion, but is not meant to be officially binding for the whole Church. With divine inspiration, the First Presidency(the prophet and his two counselors) and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles (the second-highest governing body of the Church) counsel together to establish doctrine that is consistently proclaimed in official Church publications. This doctrine resides in the four “standard works” of scripture (the Holy Bible, the Book of Mormon, theDoctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price), official declarations and proclamations, and the Articles of Faith. Isolated statements are often taken out of context, leaving their original meaning distorted. Some doctrines are more important than others and might be considered core doctrines. For example, the precise location of the Garden of Eden is far less important than doctrine about Jesus Christ and His atoning sacrifice. The mistake that public commentators often make is taking an obscure teaching that is peripheral to the Church’s purpose and placing it at the very center. This is especially common among reporters or researchers who rely on how other Christians interpret Latter-day Saint doctrine. OK so let's parse that a little UNDER INSPIRATION the 15 ESTABLISH DOCTRINE which resides in the Standard works, including proclamations Articles of Faith and official declarations. They also "consistently proclaim" it in official church publications. Yes, these publications contain scripture and proclaim it! The set of doctrines in the Standard Works including what is included in the standard works are consistently proclaimed by the church publications. Nowhere does it say that what is published by the church BECOMES doctrine! If they wanted to say "Whatever the church consistently proclaims is doctrine, they would have said that!! It does not say that church publications define doctrine- anywhere! In fact it explicitly says that some doctrines are less important than others- like the location of the Garden of Eden, which is "consistently published" and yet only "peripheral" as doctrine. That says that church publications may publish marginal or "peripheral" doctrine. Let's look at it logically The set of doctrine is large and consists of: "What is "established UNDER INSPIRATION by the 15 and which resides in the Standard works " A subset of that is: "... consistently proclaimed in OFFICIAL church publications" No where does it say "whatever the church publishes is doctrine." That is confusing the larger set of what is in the standard works with what is published in church publications, about which it explicitly states that "may be peripheral" or an "isolated statement taken out of context" 2
thesometimesaint Posted October 24, 2016 Posted October 24, 2016 Never said it did. The last addition to our Scriptures was OD2 I eagerly await more.
mfbukowski Posted October 24, 2016 Posted October 24, 2016 12 hours ago, changed said: 35 But only an account of this earth, and the inhabitants thereof, give I unto you. For behold, there are many worlds that have passed away by the word of my power. And there are many that now stand, and innumerable are they unto man; but all things are numbered unto me, for they are mine and I know them. Evolution just involves other worlds which have passed away - I would not expect that the church would have any official position about what worlds existed before ours. We are only given an account of this earth, this world, this time period. If it did, the secular press would make it a headline "MORMONS PROCLAIM FLYING SAUCERS ARE REAL" That is the kind of thing we are up against
mfbukowski Posted October 24, 2016 Posted October 24, 2016 (edited) 21 hours ago, BCSpace said: It has to be published, not just delivered at the pulpit. Consider the fact that sometimes talks are corrected after delivery before they are published (and I'm sure you can think of a recent example). So yes, I am consistent and the Church indeed has a sound policy on doctrine. I would be interested in your take on my post- two above this one to sometimesaint Edited October 24, 2016 by mfbukowski
Calm Posted October 24, 2016 Posted October 24, 2016 3 hours ago, thesometimesaint said: Never said it did. Then why in the world did you present it as a response to mfb's question?
thesometimesaint Posted October 25, 2016 Posted October 25, 2016 18 hours ago, Calm said: Then why in the world did you present it as a response to mfb's question? Responding to this " No where does it say "whatever the church publishes is doctrine."
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