Stargazer Posted July 24, 2016 Posted July 24, 2016 I was surprised to discover this conference talking about this subject. I am open to the idea that the Universe is not real, but is a simulation created for our benefit, and that what we perceive is what we are intended to perceive. A simulation I guess implies a Simulator, but whatever. It's not that I insist upon it, but what kind of experiment could be devised to either prove or disprove it? As you can see, Neil DeGrasse Tyson, who introduces the topic, can't quite deal with it with a straight face.
waveslider Posted July 24, 2016 Posted July 24, 2016 "What does a fish know about the water in which he swims all his life?" I don't see how it could be tested, but it is interesting to think about. Even in the scriptures there are things that could possibly be interpreted as a type of simulation: "And he did expound all things, even from the beginning until the time that he should come in his glory—yea, even all things which should come upon the face of the earth, even until the elements should melt with fervent heat, and the earth should be wrapt together as a scroll, and the heavens and the earth should pass away;" 3 Nephi 26:3 "And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree." Isaiah 34:4 When the Heavens and the Earth are rolled up we might know then the true nature of things as the new Heaven and Earth reveal themselves. Thanks for the thread. It's going to be fun to listen in on this video.
Glenn101 Posted July 24, 2016 Posted July 24, 2016 I guess that kidney stones could be a simulation also. If so, I vote that whoever or whatever is doing the simulation tone down the "ouch" factor. Glenn 3
thesometimesaint Posted July 24, 2016 Posted July 24, 2016 If this universe is just an highly advanced computer simulation it would be impossible to disprove.
Bobbieaware Posted July 24, 2016 Posted July 24, 2016 7 hours ago, Stargazer said: I was surprised to discover this conference talking about this subject. I am open to the idea that the Universe is not real, but is a simulation created for our benefit, and that what we perceive is what we are intended to perceive. A simulation I guess implies a Simulator, but whatever. It's not that I insist upon it, but what kind of experiment could be devised to either prove or disprove it? As you can see, Neil DeGrasse Tyson, who introduces the topic, can't quite deal with it with a straight face. What conference talk?
TheSkepticChristian Posted July 24, 2016 Posted July 24, 2016 8 hours ago, Stargazer said: I was surprised to discover this conference talking about this subject. I am open to the idea that the Universe is not real, but is a simulation created for our benefit it is a meaningless possibility, there is no reason to believe that. It is also possible our world was created five minutes ago, it is also possible you are a brain in a bat. It is also possible that all of you are robots, see The Problem of other minds. There in an infinite number of meaningless possibilities, so why should we take the simulation theory seriously? 8 hours ago, Stargazer said: As you can see, Neil DeGrasse Tyson, who introduces the topic, can't quite deal with it with a straight face. Tyson doesn't believe in the simulation theory because he is mostly worried about global warming, he believes we need to do something about it immediately.
thesometimesaint Posted July 24, 2016 Posted July 24, 2016 I wouldn't say that thing is his most worried about. He is a Astrophysicist after all.
CV75 Posted July 24, 2016 Posted July 24, 2016 11 hours ago, Stargazer said: I was surprised to discover this conference talking about this subject. I am open to the idea that the Universe is not real, but is a simulation created for our benefit, and that what we perceive is what we are intended to perceive. A simulation I guess implies a Simulator, but whatever. It's not that I insist upon it, but what kind of experiment could be devised to either prove or disprove it? As you can see, Neil DeGrasse Tyson, who introduces the topic, can't quite deal with it with a straight face. Grady from Sanford and Son seems quite attentive. "Great googly moogly!"
Robert F. Smith Posted July 25, 2016 Posted July 25, 2016 (edited) 10 hours ago, thesometimesaint said: If this universe is just an highly advanced computer simulation it would be impossible to disprove. Not necessarily. See “Do We Live in a Computer Simulation Run by Our Descendants? Researchers Say Idea Can Be Tested,” ScienceDaily, Dec 10, 2012, online at http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/12/121210132752.htm . See also “Scientists Confirm That Reality is an Illusion - Our 3D Universe Is A Hologram,” May 4, 2012, online at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qngieHWZXcM . Indeed, for all we know, this probationary existence set up for us by God may simply be a simulation in which no harm actually comes to anyone. However, since we believe it to be real, the test results can be taken as equivalent to reality. Edited July 25, 2016 by Robert F. Smith 1
Robert F. Smith Posted July 25, 2016 Posted July 25, 2016 8 hours ago, TheSkepticChristian said: ........................................................... Tyson doesn't believe in the simulation theory because he is mostly worried about global warming, he believes we need to do something about it immediately. See Kevin Loria, “ Neil deGrasse Tyson thinks there's a 'very high' chance the universe is just a simulation,” Business Insider, April 22, 2016, online at http://finance.yahoo.com/news/neil-degrasse-tyson-thinks-theres-130300649.html , which tells us that Quote Tyson uses a thought experiment to imagine a life form that's as much smarter than us as we are than dogs, chimps, or other terrestrial mammals. "What would we look like to them? We would be drooling, blithering idiots in their presence," he says. Whatever that being is, it very well might be able to create a simulation of a universe. "And if that's the case, it is easy for me to imagine that everything in our lives is just the creation of some other entity for their entertainment," Tyson says. "I’m saying, the day we learn that it is true, I will be the only one in the room saying, I’m not surprised." 1
Glenn101 Posted July 25, 2016 Posted July 25, 2016 35 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said: See Kevin Loria, “ Neil deGrasse Tyson thinks there's a 'very high' chance the universe is just a simulation,” Business Insider, April 22, 2016, online at http://finance.yahoo.com/news/neil-degrasse-tyson-thinks-theres-130300649.html , which tells us that Quote Tyson uses a thought experiment to imagine a life form that's as much smarter than us as we are than dogs, chimps, or other terrestrial mammals. "What would we look like to them? We would be drooling, blithering idiots in their presence," he says. Whatever that being is, it very well might be able to create a simulation of a universe. "And if that's the case, it is easy for me to imagine that everything in our lives is just the creation of some other entity for their entertainment," Tyson says. "I’m saying, the day we learn that it is true, I will be the only one in the room saying, I’m not surprised." If we are a simulation, I do not see how we would ever be able to actually learn about/discern it. As for how we would appear to them, I don't think that we can project that either. I am reminded of so many of the Star Trek and other science fiction stories where mankind meets a vastly superior civilization. The writers project all kinds of scenarios as to how such a vastly superior civilization will act, but I really do not think that we can know. We only can project from our current intelligence and level of civilization and I some of the scenarios seem really bizarre. I just don't think we have a clue. Glenn
Robert F. Smith Posted July 25, 2016 Posted July 25, 2016 24 minutes ago, Glenn101 said: If we are a simulation, I do not see how we would ever be able to actually learn about/discern it. As for how we would appear to them, I don't think that we can project that either. I am reminded of so many of the Star Trek and other science fiction stories where mankind meets a vastly superior civilization. The writers project all kinds of scenarios as to how such a vastly superior civilization will act, but I really do not think that we can know. We only can project from our current intelligence and level of civilization and I some of the scenarios seem really bizarre. I just don't think we have a clue. Glenn Perhaps, but see “Do We Live in a Computer Simulation Run by Our Descendants? Researchers Say Idea Can Be Tested,” ScienceDaily, Dec 10, 2012, online at http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/12/121210132752.htm . See also “Scientists Confirm That Reality is an Illusion - Our 3D Universe Is A Hologram,” May 4, 2012, online at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qngieHWZXcM .
Stargazer Posted July 25, 2016 Author Posted July 25, 2016 10 hours ago, TheSkepticChristian said: it is a meaningless possibility, there is no reason to believe that. It is also possible our world was created five minutes ago, it is also possible you are a brain in a bat. It is also possible that all of you are robots, see The Problem of other minds. There in an infinite number of meaningless possibilities, so why should we take the simulation theory seriously? Tyson doesn't believe in the simulation theory because he is mostly worried about global warming, he believes we need to do something about it immediately. I agree with everything you said. I just thought the fact that they were discussing it to be noteworthy.
The Nehor Posted July 25, 2016 Posted July 25, 2016 2 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said: Indeed, for all we know, this probationary existence set up for us by God may simply be a simulation in which no harm actually comes to anyone. However, since we believe it to be real, the test results can be taken as equivalent to reality. Since we feel pain harm actually comes to people. Also, if LDS doctrine is correct and we live on this world then we never escape the Matrix.
Calm Posted July 25, 2016 Posted July 25, 2016 3 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said: See Kevin Loria, “ Neil deGrasse Tyson thinks there's a 'very high' chance the universe is just a simulation,” Business Insider, April 22, 2016, online at http://finance.yahoo.com/news/neil-degrasse-tyson-thinks-theres-130300649.html , which tells us that What Tyson can manage more than one issue in his head at a time!? Shocking.
thesometimesaint Posted July 25, 2016 Posted July 25, 2016 12 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said: Not necessarily. See “Do We Live in a Computer Simulation Run by Our Descendants? Researchers Say Idea Can Be Tested,” ScienceDaily, Dec 10, 2012, online at http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/12/121210132752.htm . See also “Scientists Confirm That Reality is an Illusion - Our 3D Universe Is A Hologram,” May 4, 2012, online at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qngieHWZXcM . Indeed, for all we know, this probationary existence set up for us by God may simply be a simulation in which no harm actually comes to anyone. However, since we believe it to be real, the test results can be taken as equivalent to reality. If this universe is just a complex computer program we can never escape that program. The proposition is untestable. It can't be disproved, a necessary thing in discovery.
Robert F. Smith Posted July 25, 2016 Posted July 25, 2016 17 hours ago, The Nehor said: Since we feel pain harm actually comes to people. Also, if LDS doctrine is correct and we live on this world then we never escape the Matrix. Pain is all in our minds anyhow, so how would we know whether it is real? Of course, since everything is perception, what would a state of virtual reality mean? One escapes the matrix at the end of the simulation.
Robert F. Smith Posted July 25, 2016 Posted July 25, 2016 16 hours ago, Calm said: What Tyson can manage more than one issue in his head at a time!? Shocking. 7 hours ago, thesometimesaint said: If this universe is just a complex computer program we can never escape that program. The proposition is untestable. It can't be disproved, a necessary thing in discovery. But that is itself only part of the simulation. First do no harm. Finally, we shall all be released -- when our ship comes in. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltTuMG6muHo .
The Nehor Posted July 26, 2016 Posted July 26, 2016 6 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said: Pain is all in our minds anyhow, so how would we know whether it is real? Of course, since everything is perception, what would a state of virtual reality mean? One escapes the matrix at the end of the simulation. Because I felt it and it hurt. If perception reality then the matrix is as real as reality. 1
thesometimesaint Posted July 26, 2016 Posted July 26, 2016 20 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said: But that is itself only part of the simulation. First do no harm. Finally, we shall all be released -- when our ship comes in. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltTuMG6muHo . What is harm in a computer simulation?
The Nehor Posted July 27, 2016 Posted July 27, 2016 6 hours ago, thesometimesaint said: What is harm in a computer simulation? Creating life in your simulation and torturing it.
thesometimesaint Posted July 27, 2016 Posted July 27, 2016 13 hours ago, The Nehor said: Creating life in your simulation and torturing it. If that life is just a computer simulation then neither actual life nor torture exists. Does turning off a Sims Game kill the characters?
The Nehor Posted July 27, 2016 Posted July 27, 2016 1 hour ago, thesometimesaint said: If that life is just a computer simulation then neither actual life nor torture exists. Does turning off a Sims Game kill the characters? I am much more intricate then a Sims character even if this is a simulation.
thesometimesaint Posted July 27, 2016 Posted July 27, 2016 (edited) 16 minutes ago, The Nehor said: I am much more intricate then a Sims character even if this is a simulation. More intricate yes. However; if this universe(everything that was, is, or will be) is a intricate Sims computer simulation then what we call reality itself is suspect. Edited July 27, 2016 by thesometimesaint
Recommended Posts