FACT vs. FAITH

[JLHPROF]

17 minutes ago, Garden Girl said:

My objection was to parents who would whisper in their child's ear and the child would parrot the parent.  Everyone would oohh and aahh at how cute that was.  I didn't find it to be so... and our bishop finally put a stop to it.  He counseled that parents could help children develop and express their testimonies during family home evening, etc. until they were able to approach the podium on their own and have any concept of what they are saying...

GG

Now that's a good Bishop.

[Jeanne]

1 hour ago, Garden Girl said:

My objection was to parents who would whisper in their child's ear and the child would parrot the parent.  Everyone would oohh and aahh at how cute that was.  I didn't find it to be so... and our bishop finally put a stop to it.  He counseled that parents could help children develop and express their testimonies during family home evening, etc. until they were able to approach the podium on their own and have any concept of what they are saying...

GG

I agree.  In my old ward, they quit this too.  When I was little..I used to bear my testimony to please my Dad..having no understanding really of what I was saying or even the definition of a testimony

[Snoogins]

On May 30, 2016 at 7:00 AM, Garden Girl said:

My objection was to parents who would whisper in their child's ear and the child would parrot the parent.  Everyone would oohh and aahh at how cute that was.  I didn't find it to be so... and our bishop finally put a stop to it.  He counseled that parents could help children develop and express their testimonies during family home evening, etc. until they were able to approach the podium on their own and have any concept of what they are saying...

GG

Personally, I don't think a child should be giving a testimony whether it's coached or not. No child could possibly have knowledge enough to make any statements like that. I never liked seeing someone young bare testimony. I think you should have to be like 18, maybe 16, before you're allowed to do it. That's not to say they can't develop their testimonies along the way. I could even argue that at 18 you're not educated enough to make statements that are said in testimonies. There's plenty of adults who struggle with what they believe.

But this subject has many off-shoots. What if your child expressed disbelief, wanted to stop going to church or go to another faith? Would parents let them make that decision for themselves? My experience is that no, they wouldn't in most cases. Do parents or religious leaders have the right to use "scare tactics", such as hell or not being with their family when they die?

Which leads to something else I go back and forth on because I see both sides. Should parents be able to choose their child's faith? Should they be able to force them to go to church? By doing so, parents are forcing a mindset and beliefs and making it almost impossible for them to discover what they feel is true on their own without their parent's own prejudices.

For example, FLDS children are brought up in the polygamist way of life and taught that it is they way things are supposed to be. Should their parents have the right to teach them this way of life? Most of society finds this life-style (belief system) ridiculous. Should they have the right to discover what is true for themselves without the prejudice of their parents beliefs? Who's to say the parent's beliefs are the right beliefs? Apparently it is the parent who has the say, but is it right?

Just something to think about.

[Snoogins]

On 5/27/2016 at 6:27 AM, JLHPROF said:

No, not necessarily.

If I witness and experience an event or occurrence that proves a religious belief to me that is sufficient to change faith to knowledge.  Paul after Damascus, Nephi after his vision, Joseph Smith after the grove (or Kirtland temple, or D&C 76), and thousands of other people all had their faith replaced by knowledge.  Why should we not?  And it doesn't require the heavens to open either. Just for God to reveal things in a way you cannot deny.

Then it is know, not believe/faith, no matter if another says "he maketh no such thing known unto me".

I can agree to an extent, but people of all faiths could give a similar answer. That would be fine if it were just concerning God, but it's a problem when you're saying your church is the true church, Catholics are saying their church is the true church, and so on. For you to be able to say you know your church is true you'd have to also admit that means all other faiths must be false or only share elements of the truth. Same goes for Catholics, if their church is the true church all others would have to be false or share elements of the truth. So either everyone has it wrong, or not completely right or only one of them have it right.

While you can say it's knowledge for you by what has been revealed to you. The same could be said by someone of any other faith. No matter what, there is the possibility that you're wrong and that makes it faith/belief. Knowledge doesn't translate to "know". Scientists have knowledge of a lot of things but I don't think any of them would claim to "know" the truth about God or religion.

I understand where you're coming from and get what you mean, but we're never going to see eye to eye on it.

Welcome to the board but please read the guidelines. Social Hall is not a debate forum.

 

 

[JLHPROF]

13 minutes ago, Snoogins said:

I can agree to an extent, but people of all faiths could give a similar answer. That would be fine if it were just concerning God, but it's a problem when you're saying your church is the true church, Catholics are saying their church is the true church, and so on. For you to be able to say you know your church is true you'd have to also admit that means all other faiths must be false or only share elements of the truth. Same goes for Catholics, if their church is the true church all others would have to be false or share elements of the truth. So either everyone has it wrong, or not completely right or only one of them have it right.

While you can say it's knowledge for you by what has been revealed to you. The same could be said by someone of any other faith. No matter what, there is the possibility that you're wrong and that makes it faith/belief. Knowledge doesn't translate to "know". Scientists have knowledge of a lot of things but I don't think any of them would claim to "know" the truth about God or religion.

I understand where you're coming from and get what you mean, but we're never going to see eye to eye on it.

Fortunately what others believe to be true has zero impact on what God has revealed to me to be true.
Catholics are welcome to believe what they think God reveals to them.  All that matters is that I follow what God reveals to me.  And if that means that I believe all other religions are wrong that is my belief.

MY belief is that there is only one path back to God, and it is the one encompassed within Mormonism.  Nobody has to agree with me because nobody knows what God reveals to me.