How can the Church ever do enough?

[rodheadlee]

15 hours ago, consiglieri said:

How about anybody other than an old white guy from Utah?

That would be good for starters.

What does it say about an organization in this day and age whose poster boy among the top leadership consisting of aging white man is another aging white man--with a German accent?

Are you prejudiced against old white guys? Wouldn't that be considered racists? Are you a bigot?

[consiglieri]

Here is a good example of not only how the LDS Church could do more, but why  the LDS Church should do more:

 

I attended a funeral yesterday in my ward chapel for an 83-year old lady whom it was my good fortune to get to know during the last years of her life.

The service was sparsely attended, but her family was there in full force. The thing that made it singular was that pretty much every member of her family who was present, including adult children and their spouses and some grandchildren, have all become disaffected with the LDS Church.

But they wanted to honor their mother's wishes to have her funeral service in an LDS chapel.

I was so glad when her oldest son (fifty-something) took the stand and told some of the reasons why he respected his mother so much.

He mentioned his younger brother, who came out as gay some time in his early 20's; how much his mother and father supported him and loved him regardless of the church's teachings on the subject. (His gay brother was in the audience, too, and he pointed him out.)

He went on to say that, after his brother came out to his parents, his mother created a safe-place at their home in Ogden for gay youth; many of whom had been kicked out of their homes when they came out to their parents.

He was very open about the fact he had become disaffected from the LDS Church, and said one of the main reasons was because of their position toward homosexuals. He said his mother loved her family and she loved the church, and that she was able to compartmentalize those two things in a way he could not.

He said all of this in measured tones and in a non-accusatory sort of way. But I couldn't help think how uncomfortable all this must have made our bishop sitting just behind him on the stand.

It was the best church service I have attended since the world was young.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[USU78]

4 minutes ago, consiglieri said:

Here is a good example of not only how the LDS Church could do more, but why  the LDS Church should do more:

 

I attended a funeral yesterday in my ward chapel for an 83-year old lady whom it was my good fortune to get to know during the last years of her life.

The service was sparsely attended, but her family was there in full force. The thing that made it singular was that pretty much every member of her family who was present, including adult children and their spouses and some grandchildren, have all become disaffected with the LDS Church.

But they wanted to honor their mother's wishes to have her funeral service in an LDS chapel.

I was so glad when her oldest son (fifty-something) took the stand and told some of the reasons why he respected his mother so much.

He mentioned his younger brother, who came out as gay some time in his early 20's; how much his mother and father supported him and loved him regardless of the church's teachings on the subject. (His gay brother was in the audience, too, and he pointed him out.)

He went on to say that, after his brother came out to his parents, his mother created a safe-place at their home in Ogden for gay youth; many of whom had been kicked out of their homes when they came out to their parents.

He was very open about the fact he had become disaffected from the LDS Church, and said one of the main reasons was because of their position toward homosexuals. He said his mother loved her family and she loved the church, and that she was able to compartmentalize those two things in a way he could not.

He said all of this in measured tones and in a non-accusatory sort of way. But I couldn't help think how uncomfortable all this must have made our bishop sitting just behind him on the stand.

It was the best church service I have attended since the world was young.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

On the other hand  ...  I have attended family funerals where the decedent and the widow, who had been badgered and battered for decades by militant homosexual offspring, submitted to the indignity of having the service hijacked in service of a homopolitical agenda, stripped of all religious content and made into angry narcissists' bully pulpits.

No room for the Spirit in a room so grossly in need of fumigation.

[ksfisher]

27 minutes ago, consiglieri said:

Here is a good example of not only how the LDS Church could do more, but why  the LDS Church should do more:

 

I attended a funeral yesterday in my ward chapel for an 83-year old lady whom it was my good fortune to get to know during the last years of her life.

The service was sparsely attended, but her family was there in full force. The thing that made it singular was that pretty much every member of her family who was present, including adult children and their spouses and some grandchildren, have all become disaffected with the LDS Church.

But they wanted to honor their mother's wishes to have her funeral service in an LDS chapel.

I was so glad when her oldest son (fifty-something) took the stand and told some of the reasons why he respected his mother so much.

He mentioned his younger brother, who came out as gay some time in his early 20's; how much his mother and father supported him and loved him regardless of the church's teachings on the subject. (His gay brother was in the audience, too, and he pointed him out.)

He went on to say that, after his brother came out to his parents, his mother created a safe-place at their home in Ogden for gay youth; many of whom had been kicked out of their homes when they came out to their parents.

He was very open about the fact he had become disaffected from the LDS Church, and said one of the main reasons was because of their position toward homosexuals. He said his mother loved her family and she loved the church, and that she was able to compartmentalize those two things in a way he could not.

He said all of this in measured tones and in a non-accusatory sort of way. But I couldn't help think how uncomfortable all this must have made our bishop sitting just behind him on the stand.

It was the best church service I have attended since the world was young.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

I'm sure it was the best service you'd attended as the agenda of the speakers you mentioned clearly matches your own.

[consiglieri]

3 minutes ago, ksfisher said:

I'm sure it was the best service you'd attended as the agenda of the speakers you mentioned clearly matches your own.

Is it wrong to provide a safe place for teenagers who have been kicked out of their homes for being gay?

[ksfisher]

4 minutes ago, consiglieri said:

Is it wrong to provide a safe place for teenagers who have been kicked out of their homes for being gay?

No, I didn't say it was.

[Gray]

21 hours ago, CV75 said:

The key element of the Gospel is faith. You speak of it flying apart in the face of critical scholarship and anthropology, and of course it can. So even when we take the scriptures at their word, our conscience, thought and behavior are improved by the faith that is placed in them. Insight often follows. Faith is the only way you can use the scriptures to concern yourself with how to better treat your fellow beings. To use faith in this way, you must become as a little child and cast aside the entertainment of doubt that might arise from any contradicting critical scholarship and anthropology. Now if you are independent of the scriptures altogether, or cannot understand or have much use for them without a more literal historical and textual context, I’m not sure what depth you might be referring to when you say, "There is a lot of depth to the scriptures and I feel like we're missing most of it." Please offer an example of scriptural depth that we are missing.

This is a great example, from a Jewish perspective:

 

http://www.beliefnet.com/Faiths/Judaism/2004/12/Did-The-Exodus-Really-Happen.aspx?p=1 

[stemelbow]

2 hours ago, consiglieri said:

Here is a good example of not only how the LDS Church could do more, but why  the LDS Church should do more:

 

I attended a funeral yesterday in my ward chapel for an 83-year old lady whom it was my good fortune to get to know during the last years of her life.

The service was sparsely attended, but her family was there in full force. The thing that made it singular was that pretty much every member of her family who was present, including adult children and their spouses and some grandchildren, have all become disaffected with the LDS Church.

But they wanted to honor their mother's wishes to have her funeral service in an LDS chapel.

I was so glad when her oldest son (fifty-something) took the stand and told some of the reasons why he respected his mother so much.

He mentioned his younger brother, who came out as gay some time in his early 20's; how much his mother and father supported him and loved him regardless of the church's teachings on the subject. (His gay brother was in the audience, too, and he pointed him out.)

He went on to say that, after his brother came out to his parents, his mother created a safe-place at their home in Ogden for gay youth; many of whom had been kicked out of their homes when they came out to their parents.

He was very open about the fact he had become disaffected from the LDS Church, and said one of the main reasons was because of their position toward homosexuals. He said his mother loved her family and she loved the church, and that she was able to compartmentalize those two things in a way he could not.

He said all of this in measured tones and in a non-accusatory sort of way. But I couldn't help think how uncomfortable all this must have made our bishop sitting just behind him on the stand.

It was the best church service I have attended since the world was young.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

That's an awesome story. 

[Scott Lloyd]

5 hours ago, stemelbow said:

 

I should have realized some of the most exasperating are the most exasperated.  I didn't think it that way, Scott.  Thanks for the heads up. 

You like them because they're exasperated? Being exasperated does not endow a person with any particular degree of wisdom or insight.

Just so you know.

Edited March 16, 2016 by Scott Lloyd

[Scott Lloyd]

2 hours ago, USU78 said:

On the other hand  ...  I have attended family funerals where the decedent and the widow, who had been badgered and battered for decades by militant homosexual offspring, submitted to the indignity of having the service hijacked in service of a homopolitical agenda, stripped of all religious content and made into angry narcissists' bully pulpits.

No room for the Spirit in a room so grossly in need of fumigation.

To parrot stemebow, "That is an awesome story."

And I don't apply a positive connotation to "awesome" here. I mean awesome as in breathtakingly appalling.

 

Edited March 16, 2016 by Scott Lloyd

[stemelbow]

16 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

You like them because they're exasperated? Being exasperated does not endow a person with any particular degree of wisdom or insight.

Just so you know.

I think you misunderstood.  I don't like people because they are exasperated, although I admit I like many who get exasperated.  I was noting that though you get exasperated by Gina Colvin, or so it seems, others likely get exasperated by you. 

[stemelbow]

13 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

To parrot stemebow, "That is an awesome story."

And I don't apply a positive connotation to "awesome" here. I mean awesome as in breathtakingly appalling.

 

It's interesting to me that people sharing meaningful stories about their deceased loved ones becomes breathtakingly appalling to you, at least in this case.  It's as if the Pharisees came back ready to verbally attack anyone who breaks law, no matter the occasion or circumstance. 

[CV75]

43 minutes ago, Gray said:

This is a great example, from a Jewish perspective:

http://www.beliefnet.com/Faiths/Judaism/2004/12/Did-The-Exodus-Really-Happen.aspx?p=1 

That's right--It doesn't matter. As I'm fond of pointing out, the blessings of the Gospel are realized as though the children of God had been born in the covenant all along. All that matters is that they are presented in the way God has commissioned them to be.

[Scott Lloyd]

1 minute ago, stemelbow said:

It's interesting to me that people sharing meaningful stories about their deceased loved ones becomes breathtakingly appalling to you, at least in this case.  It's as if the Pharisees came back ready to verbally attack anyone who breaks law, no matter the occasion or circumstance. 

Um, go back to my post and look at the post I was responding to, the one by USU78. Then, come back and explain yourself.

 

[stemelbow]

3 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Um, go back to my post and look at the post I was responding to, the one by USU78. Then, come back and explain yourself.

 

My explanation is oops.  I mixed that up.  My apologies. 

[Scott Lloyd]

2 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

My explanation is oops.  I mixed that up.  My apologies. 

Thanks for being a stand-up guy.

[USU78]

58 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

It's interesting to me that people sharing meaningful stories about their deceased loved ones becomes breathtakingly appalling to you, at least in this case.  It's as if the Pharisees came back ready to verbally attack anyone who breaks law, no matter the occasion or circumstance. 

Hmm  ...  likewise, it's interesting to me that decades of abuse, followed by the hijacking of an otherwise holy and comforting event for the bereaved for selfish purposes, is not substantially different from the actions of those who hijack servicemen's funerals in service of an anti-homosexual agenda, though the decades of abuse make it, in my mind, far worse.

[stemelbow]

15 minutes ago, USU78 said:

Hmm  ...  likewise, it's interesting to me that decades of abuse, followed by the hijacking of an otherwise holy and comforting event for the bereaved for selfish purposes, is not substantially different from the actions of those who hijack servicemen's funerals in service of an anti-homosexual agenda, though the decades of abuse make it, in my mind, far worse.

Hi USU.  I mixed that up.  I thought it was all in reference to Consig's original story.  I can't comment on your story like that.  That was a big ol' mistake.  Sorry.

[USU78]

2 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

Hi USU.  I mixed that up.  I thought it was all in reference to Consig's original story.  I can't comment on your story like that.  That was a big ol' mistake.  Sorry.

Not a prob  ...  hence my laconic response.  We're good, as we always are.