Dealing With Sexual History of Spouse

[sfree6464]

I married the love of my life in the temple nearly 14 years ago. I love her now more than I did then and am so happy with the life that we have built. We were both raised LDS and come from strong LDS families who are still active. I am a returned missionary and saved myself in every way for my wife. Aside from one goodnight kiss to another girl before we met, my wife has been my first experience physically in every regard. When we were dating I knew she had had a couple of serious boyfriends in high school (one of whom was not a member) so I asked her if things had ever gotten inappropriate in those relationships. She told me they had with the non-member but it did not progress to sexual intercourse - and that is as specific as she got. I had always told myself that if the one I fall in love with is not a virgin then I would be ok with that. I know some people have "virgin" on their check list of qualities they require in potential spouses, and that is fine, but for me it was not a deal-breaker. As our relationship progressed I admit that it was hard for me to know she had been that physical with someone but I never even came close to considering breaking things off over it. We had a few talks over the ensuing months where I would tell her about my feelings in that regard. She was patient and understanding but uncomfortable and did not like talking about it. About a month before we got married, I felt like I needed to know exactly how far she had gone so, for the first time, I asked her specifically about how far her experiences went with that non-member. She told me "kissing and touching" and sort of waved her hand across her whole body. I then followed that up by asking, "kissing below the belt?" And she quickly said, "no". I felt good about that answer for nearly 14 years.

 

Fast forward to last month and now we have a daughter in middle school. We were discussing how to approach the situations she is being faced with now (pornography, friends becoming sexually active, drugs, alcohol) that were not such major issues in elementary school. For some reason in the midst of that conversation I said something to the effect of "You were rebellious but you never took things to the point of oral sex, right?" I asked this question with complete confidence that the answer would be "no!" Well, I was wrong. She hesitated, didn't want to lie, and said she had. On two occasions she and that non-member boyfriend had oral sex. We briefly discussed it, I was surprised but took it well in my opinion. I didn't get emotional and we finished the night talking about other things on very good terms. But as we laid down to go to sleep I found myself laying there with my thoughts. After a couple hours I decided I wanted to write down everything I was feeling and about two sentences in the pen fell out of my hand and I lost it. I cried like a little baby for about 15 minutes. Since that day (about 4 weeks ago) I have been an emotional mess. I love my wife with all that I am, and I have good moments most of the day. But at the same time, I don't go a single day without falling into despair and feel terrible sorrow - unlike anything I have experienced. I can't stop thinking about her being with another man in that way. It just comes into my head at random times. I thought for so long I was her one and only in that regard and I feel like it has been torn from me and I will never get it back. About every 3-4 days (even to this day) I lose it and cry like a baby for 5 min or so and just try to get it all out. I literally have not cried like this since I was a little boy. And never have I cried over the same issue for so long. I feel like I have had a curse placed on me. Nothing will ever bring back what I thought I once had for 14 years. Even in the eternities. I feel like some people who suffer unjustly in this life at least have the next life to experience blessings they miss out on here (marriage, having children, etc). But I know that our actions on this earth have consequences and I fear that one of the consequences of my wife's actions on two nights as a 16 year old have cursed me with sorrow forever. I will forever know that she has shared with someone else what was supposed to be mine. It breaks my heart. I didn't know how much I treasured thinking that I was her one and only in that way. It wasn't until I lost it that I truly realized how much comfort that brought to me. Additionally, there were things she had done with him that she had never done with me. It tore me apart. It literally was and is excruciating to think about and know. I feel so helpless.

 

This is my first time posting and I respectfully ask that only those with experience similar to mine respond to this question. Everyone has opinions on this matter but I have found (through personal experience) that until you actually go through this it is difficult to properly address the situation. To those reading who have not been through something like this, you probably think I am overreacting. Those who have been through this or somethin similar will hopefully be able to offer me some perspective on this. Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

[Calm]

Quote

 I respectfully ask that only those with experience similar to mine respond to this question

Just be aware that you may get very few responses and possibly none because not everyone who posts on the board reads in the Social Hall, but it won't be a lack of interest but respect from those of us who do read here, but are abiding by your wishes.

Edited February 24, 2016 by Calm

[sfree6464]

I appreciate that. I am new so maybe I am doing something wrong but it seemed like the only place it would allow me to post was in the social hall? Is there a way I could post so I could increase my chances of getting some feedback? thanks

[Calm]

This is the right place for this thread.  Newbies can only post topics in the Social Hall plus this is a personal thread so is only appropriate in the Social Hall and if you posted it in the main forum, it would probably get locked.  Debates are not allowed in Social Hall, but only supportive and fun topics which is why this level of personal is kept in here.

Once you hit 25 posts you will be able to post topics in the main discussion forum, General Discussions, as well as In The News and edit your posts.

I don't know if you are allowed personal messages until you have 25 posts as well, you might get some responses through there as if posters don't or can't use sock puppets but don't want to share personal history to that level if they are long term posters here and might also be known to some of us off the board.  

Edited February 24, 2016 by Calm

[Calm]

One suggestion....in a few days or so or no more than a week, you might want to ask the moderators to hide or delete the thread in case by chance (though it is not a common place to come, you did and others do as well so who knows?) your spouse comes across it, she may feel awkward you are looking for support here (though I get the need so I am not criticizing you).  

I speak here as a former moderator of a different board where a father criticized his daughter's appearance and behaviour in means ways and then his daughter showed up as well as a mother showing up after her doubting son was posting and in both cases family dynamics were not enhanced by the encounters.  I am not saying what you have said is along these lines, just that family in public can be hard for some to handle.

Edited February 24, 2016 by Calm

[MorningStar]

I don't know if this discussion is allowed here, so don't be surprised if it gets shut down, but try to think of it from this perspective.  If your wife passed away and you were to remarry a widow, would you feel awful that she had been with another man?  Is this more about your wife not being honest with you from the beginning or the actual act?  Had she fully repented of it?  I know some people feel like if they repented, they shouldn't have to tell another person after that. 

My husband and I don't even like the fact that we kissed other people.  Hope you find some peace over this. 

[rpn]

What she did before she met you is none of your business.   You had no right to ask then.    But you did, and because she knew how you felt, she did not tell you everything because she didn't want to lose you and thought you couldn't handle it.    Or maybe she was never the recipient  (when euphemisms are used, it is easy to think you are being truthful because you don't know if both of you are thinking the euphemism means the same thing).  You may be thinking she was dishonest, when she doesn't think she ever was.  I gather you never specifically asked her if she had given or received oral sex before you married her.

It seems to me that you will now need to fully understand how the Atonement can heal your pain, self-made though it is.  (I recommend the middle chapters of In Quiet Desparation for one of the best discussions of how the Atonement works in human life.)    If Heavenly Parents and Savior can forgive her (for whatever you think she did to you, or whatever you think she did that you consider sin, or even that is sin (though you are not the ones authorized to decide that), then you can too.

I think it may take professional counseling for you to help you work through why this is throwing you so much for a loop.  Your post seems almost like you think her virginity somehow belonged to you (and that virginity included oral sex) and she took it from you.   If that is the way you feel, you'll need to understand how you arrived there, and how you are going to get yourself out of that thinking (and if you want to).    And if you cannot get beyond it, then you should divorce her so that you both can live somewhere other than the miserableness that you feel.

I would suggest that if you are in any way feeling like she is dirty because of this disclosure that you not be intimate with her until you have resolved that ---- that would be a horrible betrayal to share intimacy with someone you think is damaged goods.

IME, there is no question your pain can be healed through the Atonement, but it will require you work to get there.   Forgiveness is never about the person we see as the wrongdoer, it is about rescue our own heart from the ugliness that happens when we refuse to forgive.   Mourn for a while, then get on with figuring out how to live happily.

 

[BlueDreams]

Well....I'm about to break your first rule. I don't know what you're going through nor have I been through the exact same experience as yours....

But I am a sex therapist, so I feel a little qualified to talk about this. 

I saw this experience once, somewhat similarly with a friend of mine, who was fretting about something similar with his then fiance. I knew a lot about him and so after listening to him for a while, I summed up what he said/felt to mean that he was being hypocritical. I knew enough to know that his slate wasn't entirely clean with some things that were considered risque. I'm not saying that you are being such. There are men out there who haven't ever sexually gone too far, including viewing pornography or sexually arousing themselves consistently in their teens. I've met them. But I think it's tied more with this great expectation we have about saving ourselves and virginity and confusing those with purity, fidelity, and true oneness. Theoretically, accepting you'd be ok with something else isn't enough to remove that value system we may have more innately....particularly when you felt you got what you hoped for and then that picture of what you actually have changes a little. That disruption would feel devastating, but it doesn't mean you've lost something really, it means that your beliefs and your relationship has an opportunity to change and mature to something better and more authentic. One where image is not one of its selling points.

In my mind you're not missing out of a blessing or something....that to me is what the celestial kingdom is about, receiving what the Lord desires for us in wholeness. Virginity in general and whatever sexual exploring that may have occurred isn't one of them because, in my mind, they're not indicative of just about anything let alone a truly covenanted sexual marriage. I say this knowing, more than most, the sexual lives of several couples that run the gammit. NONE of their sexual unity and sacredness was derived by their virginity. NONE. Some of the happiest couples who were sexually united and had beautiful sacred and joyful sexual relationships were ones that one or both partners had had sexual relationships previously. What made their relationships truly beautiful was because they had found their unique marital patterns and love-life and rejoiced together in it.

 Neither of you have truly experienced what you have with each other with any other person. You have the true basis for what a sexual relationship should entail: Love, commitment, affection, learning from each other, acceptance of one's changes and bodies, etc. In essence you have what true sexuality should entail - expressions of your unique life together. Like a finger print, no sexual relationship is the same and none should be. If you feel your sexual pattern and life together is somehow missing or out of step to who you guys are...then it may be a time to work on it and clarify some points. But either way virginity and 2 acts when someone was 16 doesn't make or break this. What it sounds like it's pulling up for you, particularly since she did things that aren't currently part of your guys' sexual pattern, is an insecurity and dissonance to what you expect your relationship was/is. Beliefs that may or may not actually be true.

For example, if she has never introduced x sexual act or seemed opposed to it when you tried, it may have nothing to do with you and more to do with what was possibly uncomfortable for her at the time or what she later came to believe was impure or wrong. Relationships that young may likely on the female's end include as sense of pressure to perform or uncertainty about maintaining boundaries that don't exist when women become more confident with expressing their voice. Or, because there are LDS cultural messages that make certain sexual acts taboo/wrong, when she repented she may have felt that casting our the sin entirely would include not engaging in XYZ or a retrenchment to sex looking like one way for it to be ok. These aren't hypothetical... I've seen both scenarios in my office before in different ways.

In short you can mourn a fantasy, and that's your right. But it may be even better to celebrate and enhance your reality creating an environment between the two of you where you can be more sexually open with each other and come to a better union to who you are. To me, that is what God's promises for wholeness in our sexuality really entails.

 

With luv,

BD

[sfree6464]

I appreciate much of this response. I am struggling to understand how the Atonement can help me. I know that it can and it is forcing me to look at the Atonement in an entirely different way. I am learning from this and I appreciate that as well. It is a great challenge and it is through great tribulation that we grow the most. I realize this is my issue and not hers. I in no way harbor any ill will towards her - I just feel incredible sorrow about this revelation. I in no way feel she is dirty, she is purer than I at this point in our lives I believe. 

I do believe she was a virgin when we married and I am grateful that we share that. But I also felt I was her one and only in other ways too and it was difficult to learn that I was not. That she had shared those things with others. It's more about the pain of learning I'm not her "one and only" as opposed to her virginity belonging to me or not.

I do disagree that sexual history of a spouse is none of a prospective spouse's business. If someone saves themselves and wants that in return they have every right to have it if they want and will need to obviously ask questions to determine it - fully repented or not.  

[Nemesis]

We have a no personal thread/swx threads policy on this board.

Nemesis