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Mormons In "The Expanse"


Zakuska

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On 1/5/2016 at 3:30 PM, Jeanne said:

I haven't seen these but I remember years ago, Battlestar Galactica had quite a few Mormon themes..

I think Orson Scott Card might of helped on Battlestar Galactica.  IIRC there were several parallels between the series and Mormon theology. 

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On January 5, 2016 at 4:30 PM, Jeanne said:

I haven't seen these but I remember years ago, Battlestar Galactica had quite a few Mormon themes..

One of the writers for the original was LDS and the original chock full of Mormon imagery. The gods of kobol (Kolob), a Quorum of 12 leading the exodus, higher beings guiding lower ones, Devils who can only tale those who join of their own free will, a marriage ceremony with a lot of similarities to a sealing, and more. The reboot has fewer allusions but some carried over.

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On 1/5/2016 at 5:29 PM, Deborah said:

I've been watching it. If you ever saw "Starship Troopers" the Mormons had a temple on one of the planets.

Yeah, in the movie, it was a radical Mormon breakaway sect.

"Starship Poopers" is the correct name for the film.  It is what the film is worth, in terms of similarity to the novel.  Verhoeven, the director, never read the book all the way through, but generated the film based on his extremely biased view of the United States.  That was what the government depicted in the film was supposed to represent.  The film was a celluoid hammer with which to beat the USA.

Now, Heinlein considered the LDS faith to be a positive thing, and he mentioned Mormons a few times in his SF novels, never negatively.  In Starship Troopers he indicated there were Mormon members of the Mobile Infantry (didn't depict any, though), and when towards the end of the novel when one character is reading off a list of warships in orbit about the planet Sanctuary getting ready for a major operation, one of the ships is named Joseph Smith.

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8 hours ago, Deborah said:

I've read lots of Heinlein but never read Starship Troopers. It was a pretty lame movie. I liked the bug action though.

 

Director Paul Verhoeven cannibalized the book to make his movie.  Names of characters, ships, a few location settings, and there were some similarities in the story timeline.  But his primary intention was to portray his proxy for the USA, the Federation, as a Fascist dictatorship complete with media and some thought control.  Uniforms for some upper rank characters were absurd copies of WW2 German Wehrmacht, not to put too fine a point on it.  Can you imagine an adult Doogie Howser in a Nazi SS uniform?  Oh, yes, it was a fine sight.

Read the book and you will see what Verhoeven did to it.  Heinlein in his own persona was a libertarian, and there is no way that SST portrayed any kind of fascism.  The book's backstory was one of Heinlein's "future histories", the one in which there had been a massive future world war that brought humanity almost back down to a pre-industrial revolution level, and returning veterans from that war became the source of order in a general chaos.  These veterans were determined not to let the political situation return to the state it had been in, and so decreed that only veterans could be citizens, vote, and hold public office.  Not that Heinlein believed that to be the ideal -- he was experimenting through literature with a different kind of culture, where in order to be a leader you had to show that you were willing to put life on the line for society.  And in the novel he had one of the characters who taught at a military academy teach his class that the only justification for the system they lived under was that it worked and achieved goals that the bulk of humans agreed with, and that that was the only justification for any system of government.  And in the society Heinlein portrayed in SST there was free speech, all-volunteer federal service, and no draft whatsoever.  

But state socialists like Verhoeven seem to be constitutionally unable to perceive that the opposite of their preferred system is not national socialism (fascism), but a pluralistic society.  And thus he (and they) completely misinterpret what Heinlein was trying to say.

Verhoeven also missed some important racial cues.  Johnnie Rico was pictured in the movie as a some kind of WASP recruiting poster type.  But if he had actually read the darned book instead of cannibalizing it, he would have discovered that Johnnie Rico was actually Juan Rico, not some white American kid but a Filipino, whose family lived in the Phillipines, with Tagalog and Spanish as their home languages!  And that Juan's father was an extremely rich industrialist -- who eventually joined the military service himself, in the book.

The only part of the movie that was worth anything was the bugs!  Those were great!  Conveyed very well what Heinlein described in the book.  

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On 1/12/2016 at 10:30 PM, Stargazer said:

Director Paul Verhoeven cannibalized the book to make his movie.  Names of characters, ships, a few location settings, and there were some similarities in the story timeline.  But his primary intention was to portray his proxy for the USA, the Federation, as a Fascist dictatorship complete with media and some thought control.  Uniforms for some upper rank characters were absurd copies of WW2 German Wehrmacht, not to put too fine a point on it.  Can you imagine an adult Doogie Howser in a Nazi SS uniform?  Oh, yes, it was a fine sight.

Read the book and you will see what Verhoeven did to it.  Heinlein in his own persona was a libertarian, and there is no way that SST portrayed any kind of fascism.  The book's backstory was one of Heinlein's "future histories", the one in which there had been a massive future world war that brought humanity almost back down to a pre-industrial revolution level, and returning veterans from that war became the source of order in a general chaos.  These veterans were determined not to let the political situation return to the state it had been in, and so decreed that only veterans could be citizens, vote, and hold public office.  Not that Heinlein believed that to be the ideal -- he was experimenting through literature with a different kind of culture, where in order to be a leader you had to show that you were willing to put life on the line for society.  And in the novel he had one of the characters who taught at a military academy teach his class that the only justification for the system they lived under was that it worked and achieved goals that the bulk of humans agreed with, and that that was the only justification for any system of government.  And in the society Heinlein portrayed in SST there was free speech, all-volunteer federal service, and no draft whatsoever.  

But state socialists like Verhoeven seem to be constitutionally unable to perceive that the opposite of their preferred system is not national socialism (fascism), but a pluralistic society.  And thus he (and they) completely misinterpret what Heinlein was trying to say.

Verhoeven also missed some important racial cues.  Johnnie Rico was pictured in the movie as a some kind of WASP recruiting poster type.  But if he had actually read the darned book instead of cannibalizing it, he would have discovered that Johnnie Rico was actually Juan Rico, not some white American kid but a Filipino, whose family lived in the Phillipines, with Tagalog and Spanish as their home languages!  And that Juan's father was an extremely rich industrialist -- who eventually joined the military service himself, in the book.

The only part of the movie that was worth anything was the bugs!  Those were great!  Conveyed very well what Heinlein described in the book.  

As a teen my friends and I used to play the Starship Troopers wargame. The tension of cleaning out bug caves without being ripped to pieces brings back a lot of memories of nukes, guns, and devouring the space marines of my friends. :)

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On 1/9/2016 at 10:28 AM, The Nehor said:

One of the writers for the original was LDS and the original chock full of Mormon imagery. The gods of kobol (Kolob), a Quorum of 12 leading the exodus, higher beings guiding lower ones, Devils who can only tale those who join of their own free will, a marriage ceremony with a lot of similarities to a sealing, and more. The reboot has fewer allusions but some carried over.

So say we all

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