Boy Scout Executive Committee To Vote On Allowing Lgbt Leaders

[stemelbow]

So allegedly higher rates of bad behavior in a particular demographic ISN'T a reason enough to discriminate against that demographic?

well we know the number of black males in prison is pretty high relative to the population. Must be as simple as saying it's the races fault. Has nothing to do with the effects of culture past and present.

[Scott Lloyd]

I see. But it isn't manipulative to say that someone is being manipulative or childish in their comments? But it is manipulative to express dismay at someone's comments?

 

I don't quite understand how this works. Should I feel emotionally blackmailed now?

I merely responded after you pressed the point. I didn't come at you or anyone here with guns blazing saying how "offended," "disgusted" and "saddened" I am.

[tonie]

Scott I have not accused you of violating any rules; real or imagined.

You seem offended that I was pretty accurate with assessment of you post about gays and their motivation for toward Scouting.

[Gray]

I merely responded after you pressed the point. I didn't come at you or anyone here with guns blazing saying how "offended," "disgusted" and "saddened" I am.

 

That's fine, it's not worth arguing about it. 

[Scott Lloyd]

So allegedly higher rates of bad behavior in a particular demographic ISN'T a reason enough to discriminate against that demographic?

It depends on what you mean by "demographic group," I suppose.

Are convicted embezzlers a demographic group? If they are, I suppose most people would be quite discriminatory in whether to choose some one from that group for hiring as a corporate comptroller. But then I suppose we would all have to hang our heads in shame for painting all convicted embezzlers with a broad brush.

[Scott Lloyd]

That's fine, it's not worth arguing about it.

Amen to that.

[aurelio]

well we know the number of black males in prison is pretty high relative to the population. Must be as simple as saying it's the races fault. Has nothing to do with the effects of culture past and present.

Every person will be judged by the Lord.  They will not be judged by their race.  Every person is born with the Light of Christ within them.  Some choose to do evil and some good.  Some are born into good circumstance while others in not-so good circumstance.  Regardless, it is the Master's Plan.  I attend church, and work, with solid God-fearing black people.  I would caution to not give way to the liberal based thought that it's the culture, and the past, that cause one to be how they are.  That's just an excise.  If that were the case, few blacks, if any, would ever make it to the middle or upper class...or believe the Word of God.  Plenty make it.  "Culture and Past" are excuses now.  Help where you can and see what happens.  It's wondrous.  Big Brothers Big Sisters!  A perfect place one can make an impact...one on one.  (sorry for the commercial).  

[Scott Lloyd]

You just got me thinking on this at a new angle. I wonder if youth would benefit with influence from LGBT folks in their lives too. One of these days, when their opposition dies down, we'll be able to test that better.Your last sentence I wholly agree with--straight and gay.

So you would be fine putting an avowed adulterer or fornicator in charge of a Scout troop, then?

[stemelbow]

Every person will be judged by the Lord.  They will not be judged by their race.  Every person is born with the Light of Christ within them.  Some choose to do evil and some good.  Some are born into good circumstance while others in not-so good circumstance.  Regardless, it is the Master's Plan.  I attend church, and work, with solid God-fearing black people.  I would caution to not give way to the liberal based thought that it's the culture, and the past, that cause one to be how they are.  That's just an excise.  If that were the case, few blacks, if any, would ever make it to the middle or upper class...or believe the Word of God.  Plenty make it.  "Culture and Past" are excuses now.  Help where you can and see what happens.  It's wondrous.  Big Brothers Big Sisters!  A perfect place one can make an impact...one on one.  (sorry for the commercial).

Sorry, culture, tradition, past all have a huge influence on how people are. Agree to disagree, I guess.

[stemelbow]

So you would be fine putting an avowed adulterer or fornicator in charge of a Scout troop, then?

huh? I said I agreed with you--anyone put in charge of a scout troop should be carefully considered and vetted.

[aurelio]

Sorry, culture, tradition, past all have a huge influence on how people are. Agree to disagree, I guess.

When will it be time to wake up and take responsibility for one's own life and stop blaming others?  

[stemelbow]

When will it be time to wake up and take responsibility for one's own life and stop blaming others?

Its always that time. But that doesn't mean individuals aren't heavily influenced, often burdened by their culture, tradition and circumstance.

[aurelio]

Its always that time. But that doesn't mean individuals aren't heavily influenced, often burdened by their culture, tradition and circumstance.

Given that logic, no one would ever be able to come up out of the ghetto, though.  I work in a drinking culture for business.  Does that mean I have to take a drink if everyone else is? 

[stemelbow]

Given that logic, no one would ever be able to come up out of the ghetto, though.  I work in a drinking culture for business.  Does that mean I have to take a drink if everyone else is?

I think there's a reason why we're judged individually. I think it true that we're products of our culture, largely. That does not mean we can't do and think for ourselves, only that we're often limited or constrained by what is put upon us. If raised in a racist culture and time, seeing, perhaps, black people as inferior, seems ridiculous now. But back in the day it was pretty normal. everyone else thought it. Hell even some black people thought it. It may be that though, it was wrong, and contributed to some ridiculously bad behavior and practices, that God upon judging a racist of that era allows plenty of mercy, knowing that the person couldn't quite see or understand truth and reality.

[aurelio]

I think there's a reason why we're judged individually. I think it true that we're products of our culture, largely. That does not mean we can't do and think for ourselves, only that we're often limited or constrained by what is put upon us. If raised in a racist culture and time, seeing, perhaps, black people as inferior, seems ridiculous now. But back in the day it was pretty normal. everyone else thought it. Hell even some black people thought it. It may be that though, it was wrong, and contributed to some ridiculously bad behavior and practices, that God upon judging a racist of that era allows plenty of mercy, knowing that the person couldn't quite see or understand truth and reality.

God is merciful. More than that.  God is GRACEful. By His Grace, we can overcome. On our own, we are limited. We need that Grace. 

[Daniel2]

I keep going back to my mother's oft repeated refrain, "Mike, you cannot go down a chimney without getting any soot on you." The point is that the first time makes the second time all the more easier to commit. Someone who steals once will more easily steal twice as it is with any action - good or bad. Homosexuality is not a disease it is a behavior and behaviors are open to all.

For many of us who are gay, attempting to "nurture" our heterosexuality through the "practice" or "exercise" of heterosexual sexual activities within our marriages ultimately did NOT make heterosexual activities easier.

According to most reports I have heard, it gets harder.

If sexual orientation was simply a matter of what one does, I should have been staight a long time ago. Ultimately, I ended up entirely unable to sexual function with my wife--it became unbearable.

My reality doesn't match that line of thought.

Sexual orientation (gay or straight weather gaylord)is much broader in scope than any given set of behaviors, behavior is not necessarily indicative of one internal, innate sexual orientation.

Edited July 15, 2015 by Daniel2

[Daniel2]

Then by all means be offended. I am sick and tired of you people trying to silence debate because you are offended.

I am sick and tired of conservatives accusing gay advocates of trying to silence debate.

On the contrary, after the false, emotionally-manipulative, hand-wringing arguements and campaigns tactics like those used in Prop 8 and other initiatives, the subsequent open dialogue, debate, and the free exchange of ideas has caused greater scrutiny. Arguements like yours are increasingly failing to be compelling or convincing, even to the largest professional organizations centered on caring for and safeguarding the health and needs of children. So the ensuing national dialogue has increased understanding and advanced equal rights for LGBT citizens.

Ultimately, debate is a crucible that burns away the false, and truth endures.

The majority now sees the irrationality, fear, and/or animus towards gay people which has been responsible for much of the discriminatory practices of the past.

So please, DON'T stop, keep talking, and sharing these types of claims and flimsy statistics. They will be further scrutinized and seen for the irrational fearmongering that they are, and that's helping our side.

Edited July 15, 2015 by Daniel2

[Calm]

Big Brothers Big Sisters!  A perfect place one can make an impact...one on one.  (sorry for the commercial).

Big point for the commercial.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

So please, DON'T stop, keep talking, and sharing these types of claims and flimsy statistics. They will be further scrutinized and seen for the irrational fearmongering that they are, and that's helping our side.

But that is just it. You did not even address the CFR that was put up. You just asserted that "They will be further scrutinized and seen for the irrational fearmongering that they are, and that's helping our side."

 

I am sure you have some other "studies" that disprove them.

 

BTW I agree with that we should have the debate.

 

And for the record I am all for having the debate, I have not read the material of the CFR, so I don't know where I stand on it. I just find it interesting that some people cry foul, and ask for references, then don't even bother engaging in it.

 

For kicks

 

Page 20 and 21 of the CFR that Russell provided. Can you refute the date presented with hard evidence?

 

 

Then there is the well poisoning and open dismal of anything given from the FRC. Oh well.

Edited July 15, 2015 by Mola Ram Suda Ram

[guerreiro9]

No sexual orientation is contagious. We don't know the causes, seems to be some combination of genetic and fetal environmental issues, but It is well established at between 3-5 years old.

How do you square this with cultures ancient and modern that have had much higher rates of homosexual activity than current western society (including up to near 100% homosexuality in Melanesia.)

It is assine to assume that our sexuality is not affected by our culture and experiences when every other desire is.

-guerreiro9

[Kenngo1969]

I think reasonable, intelligent sane, empathetic people can still hold principled disagreements with the politically correct, supposedly more enlightened positions on these matters. But what do I know? I'm just a bigoted homophobe.

[guerreiro9]

But what do I know? I'm just a bigoted homophobe.

I proudly wear the label bigot.

Just as the word gay has changed meanings so has the word bigot. Bigot now means "someone who disagrees with me".

Anyone up for organizing a bigot pride parade?

-guerreiro9

[aurelio]

I think reasonable, intelligent sane, empathetic people can still hold principled disagreements with the politically correct, supposedly more enlightened positions on these matters. But what do I know? I'm just a bigoted homophobe.

Of course, if you do not go along with the homosexual train, thinking it's not moral, not right, un-scriptural, and not good, then you are labeled a homophobe.  Sodomites will disagree with that but that is just the way it is.  Eventually, it will be beaten into you via lawsuits, threats, jail, etc.  So, come around now or later maybe. Or maybe just rot in jail one day. 

 

Do not call our gay posters pejoratives.

[Storm Rider]

For many of us who are gay, attempting to "nurture" our heterosexuality through the "practice" or "exercise" of heterosexual sexual activities within our marriages ultimately did NOT make heterosexual activities easier.

According to most reports I have heard, it gets harder.

If sexual orientation was simply a matter of what one does, I should have been staight a long time ago. Ultimately, I ended up entirely unable to sexual function with my wife--it became unbearable.

My reality doesn't match that line of thought.

Sexual orientation (gay or straight weather gaylord)is much broader in scope than any given set of behaviors, behavior is not necessarily indicative of one internal, innate sexual orientation.

 

I think there is some confusion between what I am saying and what you are saying.  What I am saying is that for the majority of humanity sexuality is fluid.  If you experience something that feels good you are more likely to try it again regardless of social mores.  Having said that I also think that there are individuals that fall into areas where they are either completely heterosexual or homosexual.  You may fit this now, but the mere fact that you were married with children(?) or at least were sexually active would indicate that you have some degree of flexibility.

 

My concerns are if a society presents that sexuality is your choice, whatever feels good, then young people will be far more willing to explore all forms of sexuality.  

 

Again, my point is that sexuality or the expression of sexuality can be very fluid depending upon what one experiences.  There is far too much evidence to deny this fact.  Even today people float back and forth in relationships with both same sex and opposite sex individuals.