Score One For Religious Freedom Against The Tyranny Of Political Correctness

[Scott Lloyd]

There is more to political correctness than mere politeness and sensitivity.

 

At its worst extreme, political correctness privileges certain ideologies and positions in the public discourse and the marketplace of ideas at the expense of others.

 

To take the example that is the subject of this thread, if one is forbidden to express personal religious beliefs or convictions at school or in the workplace, secularism enjoys free rein while faith and devotion are suppressed.

 

One can be civil and decent in speech and behavior without genuflecting to political correctness.

[california boy]

I once read that when people start a sentence with "I know this is not politically correct but..." They almost always follow with some racial Insult or derogatory remark about gays. I have found that statement to be remarkably true most of the time

[Scott Lloyd]

I once read that when people start a sentence with "I know this is not politically correct but..." They almost always follow with some racial Insult or derogatory remark about gays. I have found that statement to be remarkably true most of the time

While that may be true to some degree, I'm remembering your recent fuss over the phrase "same-gender attraction" and wondering about your "derogatory remark" metric.

[california boy]

While that may be true to some degree, I'm remembering your recent fuss over the phrase "same-gender attraction" and wondering about your "derogatory remark" metric.

The same thing applies. SSA is not politicslly correct because in the gay community it is an offensive term. ( if you remember you were directed to the reasons why SSA is offensive to the gay community which you promptly ignored.). You choose to continue to use the term because those straight Mormons you hang around with also use the term freely. So you don't get enough pushback to change your offensive behavior. You simply ignore the politically incorrect usage

When the friends you hang around with start telling you that calling a gay person someone who has SSA is offensive then you will start saying " I know this is politically incorrect but I still want to use the term. I don't care if the gay community finds the term offensive.

Wouldn't you agree that pretty much sums up your behavior?

[tonie]

....

Edited May 24, 2015 by tonie

[sethpayne]

Even though we frown upon the use of some words, people should still be free to use them. What they say will reflect only on them, They should have as much right to voice their opinions as we have to disagree with the way they voice them.

 

Of course.  And they *are* free to use them.  This is why in another post I mentioned social norms.  Nobody can legally stop you from using certain words (unless you are on their private property, a member of a their private organization or at their private function) but you will likely be on the receiving end of some glares and comments.  That's a good thing.  When Mormons are called "cultists" by extremist bigots I am glad that this is seen as socially inappropriate and insensitive.

[longview]

Political correctness at its most basic is avoiding language and actions calculated to offend and marginalize.

- - -

   - - -

It was also used earlier by some communists (almost exclusively Stalinist-style Communists) to refer to the "correct" political opinions under totalitarianism but that usage does not really relate to later usages as currently popularized in the United States. I also heard the term used in Britain when I was there though must less often and it was less of a pejorative. I have no idea if it has been translated to other languages.

We do not always find "good intentions" with expressions of political correctness. Just to show one of the many examples: we have social engineers (whatever you want to call them) promoting Islam in the classroom but going berserk when any of the students bring such items as a Christian Cross on a necklace. A young girl was subjected to harassment by elementary school staff for bringing a Bible to read during her lunch break outside of class.

"Soviet Realism" was a form of propaganda and mind control exerted by the regime over various enterprises including artistic expressions and news reporting and ideological narratives.  Not just the Soviets but also by Pol Pot (killing all who were not agrarian types) and by Mao (Great Leap Forward).

[tonie]

This news release (some good news, for a change) was in my in-box:

Looks like another case of overly zealous but misguided school administrators forcing political correctness.

Is it political correctness?

Or is it a misguided reaction from the legal history of religion and schools; of which Lds have played a notable part in furthering restrictions placed on schools concerning religion?

[thesometimesaint]

We do not always find "good intentions" with expressions of political correctness. Just to show one of the many examples: we have social engineers (whatever you want to call them) promoting Islam in the classroom but going berserk when any of the students bring such items as a Christian Cross on a necklace. A young girl was subjected to harassment by elementary school staff for bringing a Bible to read during her lunch break outside of class.

"Soviet Realism" was a form of propaganda and mind control exerted by the regime over various enterprises including artistic expressions and news reporting and ideological narratives.  Not just the Soviets but also by Pol Pot (killing all who were not agrarian types) and by Mao (Great Leap Forward).

 

Heaven forbid a school children in America learn about other religions.

 

BTW Right after daily teacher lead reading from the Bible we read/studied the Communist Manifesto in the 9th Grade in Huntsville Alabama in the early 1960's. Heart of the John Birch Society and the KKK. Those darn Communists must have worked real hard to infiltrate our little Jr.High.

[blooit]

The same thing applies. SSA is not politicslly correct because in the gay community it is an offensive term. ( if you remember you were directed to the reasons why SSA is offensive to the gay community which you promptly ignored.). You choose to continue to use the term because those straight Mormons you hang around with also use the term freely. So you don't get enough pushback to change your offensive behavior. You simply ignore the politically incorrect usage

When the friends you hang around with start telling you that calling a gay person someone who has SSA is offensive then you will start saying " I know this is politically incorrect but I still want to use the term. I don't care if the gay community finds the term offensive.

Wouldn't you agree that pretty much sums up your behavior?

 

This highlights the whole problem with political correctness.  Something is PC "as long as you agree with me."  This might work if everyone had an equitable shot at deciding what was PC, but media and education are controlled only by one side.  Control the language and you control the people.  Our nation was founded on a few fundamental human rights, and I would argue that freedom of speech is one of those.  Freedom from being offended was not one.

[blooit]

Was there any follow-up? I think I might have had a thing or two to say at the next parent-teacher conference -- if not before. I wouldn't tolerate that sort of thing, especially from a BYU or BYUI student teacher.

We did indeed meet with her at the next parent-teacher conference.  We basically had to agree to disagree but let her know that if she took any action to stop him from bringing it to school and reading it during his free time, we would take action.

 

I wasn't shocked at her position, but it let me know how eager some of us can get to be "politically correct."  Each year I teach the reformation in public school, and you should see the students squirm the minute you even mention religion.  They have been so convinced that the mere mention of god or faith is wrong in public.

 

so sad

[TheSkepticChristian]

This news release (some good news, for a change) was in my in-box

 

What if a student quotes the Satanic Bible? or Richard Dawkins book?  Will you be okay with that? 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Satanic_Bible

 

Don't get me wrong, I support religious freedom, but we sometimes have to  be careful what we wish for. 

Edited May 24, 2015 by TheSkepticChristian

[The Nehor]

We do not always find "good intentions" with expressions of political correctness. Just to show one of the many examples: we have social engineers (whatever you want to call them) promoting Islam in the classroom but going berserk when any of the students bring such items as a Christian Cross on a necklace. A young girl was subjected to harassment by elementary school staff for bringing a Bible to read during her lunch break outside of class.

"Soviet Realism" was a form of propaganda and mind control exerted by the regime over various enterprises including artistic expressions and news reporting and ideological narratives.  Not just the Soviets but also by Pol Pot (killing all who were not agrarian types) and by Mao (Great Leap Forward).

Most things can be carried too far though I will withhold judgement on the cases you mentioned as I do not know anything about the situation.

Communist political correctness and the modern meaning of political correctness are not related.

[strappinglad]

What if a student quotes the Satanic Bible? or Richard Dawkins book?  Will you be okay with that? 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Satanic_Bible

 

Don't get me wrong, I support religious freedom, but we sometimes have to  be careful what we wish for.

If a student is asked to write an essay entitled " About me " and included such writings as above, that would be totally appropriate and would likely tell quite a bit about the student and his upbringing and beliefs, even if it were done for shock value. Valuable info for the teacher I would think. The dumb move would have the teacher then running to the principal or parent council with fear and loathing .

[blooit]

When LDS insist that they should not be referred to as a cult (despite the definition being technically correct from an anthropological point of view) they are calling for political correctness.

 

Perhaps... but when others fail to follow the church's request, the church doesn't work to rally others to destroy the lives of those who are "politically incorrect."  To me, that is the very definition of "hate speech."

[The Nehor]

Perhaps... but when others fail to follow the church's request, the church doesn't work to rally others to destroy the lives of those who are "politically incorrect."  To me, that is the very definition of "hate speech."

I certainly insult them. Is that hate speech?

[california boy]

This highlights the whole problem with political correctness.  Something is PC "as long as you agree with me."  This might work if everyone had an equitable shot at deciding what was PC, but media and education are controlled only by one side.  Control the language and you control the people.  Our nation was founded on a few fundamental human rights, and I would argue that freedom of speech is one of those.  Freedom from being offended was not one.

I don't think that anyone is arguing that freedom of speech is not a fundamental right in this country. You also have the right to. be as offensive as you want. It is more the gospel of Christ that compels us to treat others with kindness and dignity. It seems odd to me that you would be so strident in not wanting to treat others with respect

[longview]

Most things can be carried too far though I will withhold judgement on the cases you mentioned as I do not know anything about the situation.

Communist political correctness and the modern meaning of political correctness are not related.

Both have similar parallel courses.  Communism theorized of creating a "New Communist Man" where government would no longer be needed.  Modern day PC is continually pressing for ever greater conformity to "their ideal standard" (some would say complete dependence by all to a powerful consuming central dictatorship.

[Thinking]

It's kind of sad if adults (especially teachers and administrators) can't tell the difference between being conveying information and "proselyting".

 

I also think there's a difference between a teacher communicating religious convictions and a student. As long as the message is contained in the scope of the assignment, I see no problem with the student including religious convictions.

[Vance]

Maybe by your definition.

It is not about my definition.  It about what is going on.

 

You are free to use racial slurs but you aren't being PC.

Political correctness is not about racial slurs.  It is about false accusations of racism to silence your opposition.

 

PC doesn't take away your freedom, it just tells you what others may not like.

You still aren't getting it.  Political correctness has nothing to do with being civil.  It is strictly about the left silencing opposition.

 

But if it makes you feel better to think that being PC somehow tramples on your rights you're free to think that.

If it makes you feel better to think that you know what you are talking about, you're free to think that.

[Vance]

http://www.amazon.com/The-Silencing-Left-Killing-Speech/dp/1621573702

 

Even liberals are starting to recognize how political correctness is stifling free speech.

[Vance]

http://www.amazon.com/The-Language-Police-Pressure-Restrict/dp/1400030641

 

Another example.

[blooit]

I don't think that anyone is arguing that freedom of speech is not a fundamental right in this country. You also have the right to. be as offensive as you want. It is more the gospel of Christ that compels us to treat others with kindness and dignity. It seems odd to me that you would be so strident in not wanting to treat others with respect

 

I didn't say I want to treat others disrespectfully.  However, I want others to have the right to do so if they so choose.

[thesometimesaint]

http://www.amazon.com/The-Language-Police-Pressure-Restrict/dp/1400030641

 

Another example.

 

SEE http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_correctness

 

In 1990 on the Harvard campus liberal students called themselves politically correct proudly, asking those they met, "Are you PC [also]?"^{[citation needed]} But the term was swiftly hijacked by the right, with its media use as a pejorative phrase becoming widespread in 1991.^[12] It became a key term encapsulating conservative concerns about the left in academia in particular, and in culture and political debate more broadly. Two articles on the topic in late 1990 in Forbes and Newsweek both used the term "thought police" in their headlines, exemplifying the tone of the new usage, but it was Dinesh D'Souza's Illiberal Education: The Politics of Race and Sex on Campus (1991) which "captured the press's imagination".^[12] "Political correctness" here was a label for a range of policies in academia around supporting multiculturalism through affirmative action, sanctions against anti-minority hate speech, and revising curricula (sometimes referred to as "canon busting").^[12][13] These trends were at least in part a response to the rise of identity politics, with movements such as feminism, gay rights movements and ethnic minority movements. That response received significant direct and indirect funding from conservative foundations and think tanks, not least the John M. Olin Foundation, which funded D'Souza's book.^[14]

In the event, the previously obscure term became common-currency in the lexicon of the conservative social and political challenges against progressive teaching methods and curriculum changes in the secondary schools and universities (public and private) of the U.S.^[15] Hence, in 1991, at a commencement ceremony for a graduating class of the University of Michigan, the then U.S. President George H.W. Bush spoke out against: "... a movement [that would] declare certain topics 'off-limits', certain expressions 'off-limits', even certain gestures 'off-limits'..."^[16]

Herbert Kohl (1992) pointed out that a number of neoconservatives who promoted the use of the term "politically correct" in the early 1990s were actually former Communist Party members, and, as a result, familiar with the original use of the phrase. He argued that in doing so, they intended "to insinuate that egalitarian democratic ideas are actually authoritarian, orthodox and Communist-influenced, when they oppose the right of people to be racist, sexist, and homophobic."^[4]

Mainstream usages of the term politically correct, and its derivatives – "political correctness" and "PC" – began in the 1990s, when right-wing politicians adopted the phrase as a pejorative descriptor of their ideologic enemies – especially in context of the Culture Wars about language and the content of public-school curricula. Generally, any policy, behavior, and speech code that the speaker or the writer regards as the imposition of a liberal orthodoxy about people and things, can be described and criticized as "politically correct".^{[citation needed]}Jan Narveson has written that "that phrase was born to live between scare-quotes: it suggests that the operative considerations in the area so called are merely political, steamrolling the genuine reasons of principle for which we ought to be acting..."^[17]

Liberal commentators have argued that the conservatives and reactionaries who used the term did so in effort to divert political discussion away from the substantive matters of resolving societal discrimination – such as racial, social class, gender, and legal inequality – against people whom the right-wing do not consider part of the social mainstream.^[18]

In the course of the 1990s, the term was increasingly commonly used in the United Kingdom, with the expression "political correctness gone mad" becoming a catchphrase, usually associated with the politically conservative Daily Mail tabloid.^[19] In The Abolition of Britain (1999), Peter Hitchens wrote that: "What Americans describe with the casual phrase ... "political correctness" is the most intolerant system of thought to dominate the British Isles since the Reformation."^{[citation needed]}

 

In 2001 Will Hutton wrote:  Political correctness is one of the brilliant tools that the American Right developed in the mid–1980s, as part of its demolition of American liberalism.... What the sharpest thinkers on the American Right saw quickly was that by declaring war on the cultural manifestations of liberalism – by levelling the charge of "political correctness" against its exponents – they could discredit the whole political project.

 

Similarly Polly Toynbee, writing in 2001, said "the phrase is an empty, right-wing smear, designed only to elevate its user",^[21] and, in 2010 "...the phrase "political correctness" was born as a coded cover for all who still want to say Paki, spastic, or queer..."^[22][23]

 —"Words Really are Important, Mr Blunkett", The Observer^[20]

[strappinglad]

We just have to look at which speakers at university forums are either disinvited or shouted down/protested against, and which ones are widely recruited . That will tell what ideas are politically correct. Free Speech can be restricted by public perception and it has nothing to do with shouting " Fire " in a crowded theatre.