The Family: A Proclamation To The World -- Doctrine Vs. Suggestion?

[Vance]

“The First Presidency and the Council of the Twelve Apostles, called and ordained to hold the keys of the priesthood, have the authority and responsibility to govern the Church, to administer its ordinances, to expound its doctrine, and to establish and maintain its practices.… But any major questions of policy, procedures, programs, or doctrine are considered deliberately and prayerfully by the First Presidency and the Twelve together.”

 

Gordon B. Hinckley, “God Is at the Helm,” Ensign, May 1994, 54

Edited May 25, 2015 by Vance

[Vance]

"The calling of 15 men to the holy apostleship provides great protection for us as members of the Church. Why? Because decisions of these leaders must be unanimous. Can you imagine how the Spirit needs to move upon 15 men to bring about unanimity? These 15 men have varied educational and professional backgrounds, with differing opinions about many things. Trust me! These 15 men—prophets, seers, and revelators—know what the will of the Lord is when unanimity is reached!"

 

Elder Russell M. Nelson, October 2014 General Conference.

Edited May 25, 2015 by Vance

[Vance]

So the only way to be "family-friendly" is to financially encourage mothers with young children to have careers?

I see.

And it included "reproductive rights", code word for ABORTION!

[Calm]

And it included "reproductive rights", code word for ABORTION!

I thought that included birth control.

[Vance]

I thought that included birth control.

Is birth control not available in Utah?

[Robert F. Smith]

And it included "reproductive rights", code word for ABORTION!

I thought that included birth control.

Yes, both birth control and abortion are available in Utah, and have been legal for over a generation.

 

However, I was thinking more about family-friendly policies which include things like (1) maternity leave for both men and women who work, (2) convenient day-care programs, and (3) a state tax code which encourages marriage and family.

 

Far from being a matter of women seeking careers (which is their right), many families cannot survive on a single income, as the middle class is currently being destroyed via stagnant wages and galloping inflation during the past generation.

 

I should have thought that, if families are so important, then we wouldn't deliberately prevent them from being successful.  A formal Proclamation is valueless unless seriously implemented.  Talk is cheap.  How about belief in action?  Or as James the Just said:  Show me your faith with your words, and I'll show you my faith by my actions.

Edited May 26, 2015 by Robert F. Smith

[Tacenda]

It may be slightly ironic, but my daughter who works for the church told me they don't offer any maternity leave.

[DBMormon]

Doctrine = beliefs thought to be true by at least some of a given faith system and taught perhaps even officially

 

 

True Doctrine = Actually revealed truth from God that affects Salvation in some degree by the fgollowers of a given faith system adhering or holding such belief

 

False Doctrine= Beliefs believed by at least some members of a given faith system and perhaps thought to have come from God and perhaps even claimed by leaders as "true Doctrine" but in reality God has no approval of them.

 

The  "The Family: A Proclamation To The World" is Doctrine and  I believe many parts are true Doctrine but I also am open to several parts being False Doctrine as well.

 

It is not Canon and has not been put across as revelation (with the exception of it being called so and then being changed to take that out).  

 

Any belief of it being TRUE Doctrine or FALSE Doctrine is a matter of faith and it seems without it being Canon one could discard it with out being less faithful (With exceptions of it principles that find their way into other modes of determining worthiness)

[mfbukowski]

Doctrine = beliefs thought to be true by at least some of a given faith system and taught perhaps even officially

 

 

True Doctrine = Actually revealed truth from God that affects Salvation in some degree by the fgollowers of a given faith system adhering or holding such belief

 

False Doctrine= Beliefs believed by at least some members of a given faith system and perhaps thought to have come from God and perhaps even claimed by leaders as "true Doctrine" but in reality God has no approval of them.

 

The  "The Family: A Proclamation To The World" is Doctrine and  I believe many parts are true Doctrine but I also am open to several parts being False Doctrine as well.

 

It is not Canon and has not been put across as revelation (with the exception of it being called so and then being changed to take that out).  

 

Any belief of it being TRUE Doctrine or FALSE Doctrine is a matter of faith and it seems without it being Canon one could discard it with out being less faithful (With exceptions of it principles that find their way into other modes of determining worthiness)

Huh?

Sez who?

[Robert F. Smith]

Huh?

Sez who?

Maybe you should go on his show and be interviewed, Mark.  That might clarify a lot.

Edited May 26, 2015 by Robert F. Smith

[mfbukowski]

Maybe you should go on his show and be interviewed, Mark.  That might clarify a lot.

That's up to him.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

So the only way to be "family-friendly" is to financially encourage mothers with young children to have careers?

I see.

I think this sums up the "study" rather well.

 

Funny that the states that scored the highest are the most liberal. I wonder if they looked at the house of horrors run by Dr Gosnell and considered that "family friendly".

Edited May 26, 2015 by Mola Ram Suda Ram

[DBMormon]

Huh?

Sez who?

for myself?... me

[DBMormon]

That's up to him.

send me an outline of all you want to cover, you have my email.  I am happy to do it if we can find a mutual time to do it.

[Tacenda]

send me an outline of all you want to cover, you have my email. I am happy to do it if we can find a mutual time to do it.

I'd be all ears for this.

[thesometimesaint]

I think this sums up the "study" rather well.

 

Funny that the states that scored the highest are the most liberal. I wonder if they looked at the house of horrors run by Dr Gosnell and considered that "family friendly".

 

Probably looked at the fine conservative Christian Duggar family, or this fine conservative gentleman

SEE http://www.rawstory.com/2015/05/former-brooklyn-tea-party-head-and-anti-obscenity-candidate-arrested-for-child-possession/

Edited May 27, 2015 by thesometimesaint

[mfbukowski]

send me an outline of all you want to cover, you have my email.  I am happy to do it if we can find a mutual time to do it.

Will do.

[mfbukowski]

for myself?... me

Personally I find it less misleading if I qualify sweeping generalizations about "what is" with the words "I think".

When I hear broad metaphysically dogmatic assertions I am programmed to find a philosophical foundation for them rather than just relegate them to someone expressing their opinion.

I always want to get to the bottom line of why someone thinks that way

[mfbukowski]

Yes, both birth control and abortion are available in Utah, and have been legal for over a generation.

 

However, I was thinking more about family-friendly policies which include things like (1) maternity leave for both men and women who work, (2) convenient day-care programs, and (3) a state tax code which encourages marriage and family.

 

Far from being a matter of women seeking careers (which is their right), many families cannot survive on a single income, as the middle class is currently being destroyed via stagnant wages and galloping inflation during the past generation.

 

I should have thought that, if families are so important, then we wouldn't deliberately prevent them from being successful.  A formal Proclamation is valueless unless seriously implemented.  Talk is cheap.  How about belief in action?  Or as James the Just said:  Show me your faith with your words, and I'll show you my faith by my actions.

James the William said the same thing.

 

“Action may not always bring happiness, but there is no happiness without action. ”

http://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/15865.William_James

Edited May 27, 2015 by mfbukowski

[CV75]

I think many doctrines are suggestions and many suggestions are likewise doctrinal: For example, a Book of Mormon word search of similar terms shows that Moroni, Nephi, Alma and many other prophets exhorting, pleading, etc. Even the Lord "pleads" and "invites" -- these are all forms of suggestion.

[Robert F. Smith]

I think this sums up the "study" rather well.

 

Funny that the states that scored the highest are the most liberal. I wonder if they looked at the house of horrors run by Dr Gosnell and considered that "family friendly".

Isn't it God Almighty who giveth liberally and upbraideth not? James 1:5.

[Robert F. Smith]

The latest trends and projections for marriage in America:  http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865629093/US-marriage-rate-hits-new-low-and-may-continue-to-decline.html .  It doesn't look good.  What can be done about it?

[DJBrown]

As usual, putting words in the mouths of the Brethren.  No quotes, because you have none.

 

You failed to reply adequately to the CFR, which requires you to supply the actual quotations.  You couldn't, but that didn't stop you from making your sarcastic and false claims.

 

Nor did it prevent you from ignoring the primary issue.

 

I know I have not been a participant in this exchange, but the FAIR website has a good page on this with many good quotations.

 

http://en.fairmormon.org/Mormonism_and_prophets/Mormonism_and_the_Proclamation_on_the_Family/Official_doctrine

 

The Proclamation was first read by President Gordon B. Hinckley at a General Relief Society Meeting on 25 September 1995. Before reading it, he said:

"With so much of sophistry that is passed off as truth, with so much of deception concerning standards and values, with so much of allurement and enticement to take on the slow stain of the world, we have felt to warn and forewarn. In furtherance of this we of the First Presidency and the Council of the Twelve Apostles now issue a proclamation to the Church and to the world as a declaration and reaffirmation of standards, doctrines, and practices relative to the family which the prophets, seers, and revelators of this church have repeatedly stated throughout its history. I now take the opportunity of reading to you this proclamation."

President Henry B. Eyring applied this verse to the Proclamation:

"The title of the proclamation on the family reads: “The Family: A Proclamation to the World—The First Presidency and Council of the Twelve Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Three things about the title are worth our careful reflection. First, the subject: the family. Second, the audience, which is the whole world. And third, those proclaiming it are those we sustain as prophets, seers, and revelators. All this means that the family must be of tremendous importance to us, that whatever the proclamation says could help anyone in the world, and that the proclamation fits the Lord’s promise when he said, “Whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same” (D&C 1:3)"

President Packer told a Worldwide Leadership Training Broadcast:

A proclamation in the Church is a significant, major announcement. Very few of them have been issued from the beginning of the Church. They are significant; they are revelatory. At that time, the Brethren issued "The Family: A Proclamation to the World." It is scripture like in its power.

When you wonder why we are the way we are and why we do the things we do and why we will not do some of the things that we will not do, you can find the authority for that in this proclamation on the family. There are times when we are accused of being intolerant because we won't accept and do the things that are supposed to be the norm in society. Well, the things we won't do, we won't do. And the things we won't do, we can't do, because the standard we follow is given of Him.

As we examine this proclamation more closely, see if you don't see in it the issues that are foremost in society, in politics, in government, in religion now that are causing the most concern and difficulty. You'll find answers there - and they are the answers of the Church."

Elder M. Russell Ballard:

"False prophets and false teachers are also those who attempt to change the God-given and scripturally based doctrines that protect the sanctity of marriage, the divine nature of the family, and the essential doctrine of personal morality. They advocate a redefinition of morality to justify fornication, adultery, and homosexual relationships. Some openly champion the legalization of so-called same-gender marriages. To justify their rejection of God’s immutable laws that protect the family, these false prophets and false teachers even attack the inspired proclamation on the family issued to the world in 1995 by the First Presidency and the Twelve Apostles."

There are many others.  But these are pretty good.

 

[Robert F. Smith]

To sum up the comments carried on the FAIRMORMON website, we find these relevant statements:

 

 

The Proclamation was first read by President Gordon B. Hinckley at a General Relief Society Meeting on 25 September 1995. Before reading it, he said: "we have felt to warn and forewarn."

 

President Henry B. Eyring said "that the proclamation fits the Lord’s promise when he said, 'Whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same' (D&C 1:3)"

 

President of the Twelve Boyd K. Packer said that "It is scripture like."

 

Elder M. Russell Ballard called it "the inspired proclamation on the family"

 

Nowhere does one find justification for the excessive claims made by some on this thread.