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Why I Argue That Throwing Out 132 Has Precident


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Personally, I am uncomfortable with advocating anybody’s excommunication.  For starters, I am not a judge in Israel, let alone a judge in Israel with stewardship over any of the individuals who have advocated its removal.

 

But if it is OK for a member to publicly advocate removal of scriptures from the D&C, why would it not be OK for someone to publicly advocate removing him from the Church?

I can see a qualitative difference between saying some individual ought to be excommunicated and opining that in theory some act should warrant excommunication.

To take an extreme example by way of illustration, is there anyone here who would seriously dispute that serial murder calls for excommunication or that it's inappropriate to say or assume so?

What if you're earnestly and kindly trying to warn someone away from some potentially damaging behavior? Would it not be appropriate to give a considered opinion about its potential consequence up to and including Church discipline?

Edited by Scott Lloyd
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I'm confident any reasonable mind will recognize the difference between "erring in doctrine" (presumably due to simple ignorance) and aggressively, argumentatively and deliberately taking an advocacy position against the settled doctrine and position of the Church of Jesus Christ and its higher leadership. And doing so is not rendered more acceptable just because having a computer and an Internet connection lets you do it more easily these days. If anything, it's many times worse because the potential to wreak damage is so much greater with minimal effort.

 

You would think so, but there is at least one poster here who has indicated that you should just keep any differing opinion private, and not express it publicly at all.

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You would think so, but there is at least one poster here who has indicated that you should just keep any differing opinion private, and not express it publicly at all.

 

I think if you will go back and read for comprehension it was not worded "publicly express" but was worded "publicly proselytize".  

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This strikes me as rationalization.

Putting your views on the Internet open to a global readership potentially numbering in the millions carries an implied intent to persuade. Otherwise, why do it?

It certainly has greater potential for exposure -- by magnitudes -- than going door-to-door or doing face-to-face contacting, if that's what you mean by "actively proselyting."

I wish someone from the church would just put me out of my misery and ex me. Since it wouldn't matter if that or my resignation happened, people would think I sinned.
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You would think so, but there is at least one poster here who has indicated that you should just keep any differing opinion private, and not express it publicly at all.

I believe there is wisdom in that due to the average human mind's enormous capacity for rationalization. It's all too easy to minimize overt advocacy as mere expression of opinion.

Furthermore, if I found myself in substantive disagreement with the settled position of the Church, it would be cause for worry to me, enough so that I wouldn't be trumpeting it publicly.

Edited by Scott Lloyd
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I wish someone from the church would just put me out of my misery and ex me. Since it wouldn't matter if that or my resignation happened, people would think I sinned.

 

God would know the difference and it is he who counts not the gossips of the ward.

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Throw out the whole section 132? Even the part that talks about the new and everlasting covenant of marriage needed for kingdoms, thrones, principalities, dominions, powers. That's one of my favrorite sections of scripture.

I can see how this would be enticing, especially for gamers. :) Nothing in the scripture sounds like heaven to me.
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I think if you will go back and read for comprehension it was not worded "publicly express" but was worded "publicly proselytize".  

And I followed up with a question to clarify, and the "keep it private" position is the one you stuck to. I am very capable of reading for comprehension.

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I can see how this would be enticing, especially for gamers. :) Nothing in the scripture sounds like heaven to me.

 

Col 1:16-

 

"For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: "

 

Everything we receive from God, including thrones, dominions, principalities, or powers, exists because of Him, and glorifies Him.  When we receive the blessings He offers, we are worshipping Him.

 

I would be interested though in understanding where your idea of heaven comes from?  :)

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I believe there is wisdom in that due to the average human mind's enormous capacity for rationalization. It's all too easy to minimize overt advocacy as mere expression of opinion.

Furthermore, if I found myself in substantive disagreement with the settled position of the Church, it would be cause for worry to me, enough so that I wouldn't be trumpeting it publicly.

So the thinking HAS been done- good to know.

Edited by BookofMormonLuvr
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Pity that, Tacenda... Frankly, I find the promise of being with my loved ones through eternity heavenly... because of the authority of priesthood keys and the sealing power... what a gift... what a heavenly gift, to live each day knowing that if I keep my covenants, I will one day take my dear husband's hand as I step through the veil...

 

GG

Bless you, Garden Girl.
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I see you're more interested in cheap shot caricature than good-faith discussion. Good to know.

 Well, your insinuation that those who dare to have questions and express them are somehow less faithful or valiant, is exactly a glowing review.

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I wish someone from the church would just put me out of my misery and ex me. Since it wouldn't matter if that or my resignation happened, people would think I sinned.

Why would they ex you? Of course, you can start by speaking publically about your support for the removal of 132 or begin to support publically what the church would be against. Or you can begin to question the leaders and publically teach that they are liars etc. That would get you exed. And I don't think that people would think that you sinned. Maybe just lost your way like many others.

 

I guess that the point is rather simple: there are no perfect people and so there are no perfect churches. Just look at creflo dollar and his asking for 60 million from his flock for an airplane. Of course his ministry needs a plane so that he can fly here and there. But....

 

If you want to resign, just resign. Sometimes it is best to leave and maybe come back a new person once the experience on the 'outside' is no longer attractive. Life is too short.

Edited by why me
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Pity that, Tacenda... Frankly, I find the promise of being with my loved ones through eternity heavenly... because of the authority of priesthood keys and the sealing power... what a gift... what a heavenly gift, to live each day knowing that if I keep my covenants, I will one day take my dear husband's hand as I step through the veil...

 

GG

Sometimes that more 'simple' truths of the faith are overlooked. It certainly does sound like jesus when we think of eternal marriage and happiness. Not to mention the stress on chasity and charity. I have always said that if the world would take the lds faith to heart it would be a more better place to live and grow. But it seems that the world is drawing farther away and look what is happening.

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Hey Scott, can you teach me how you do those macros?  Or do you actually that that stuff out every time?

I can't figure out what you mean.

Oh, do you mean the signature lines at the bottom of my posts?

Go to your user profile. Click on "Edit profile". Find "Signature" in the menu and click on it. Write what you want, fancy it up with colors and fonts, etc., then save it.

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