CCRW Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 I don't want to die anytime soon, but I can't wait for heaven and hopefully spending eternity with Heavenly Father. I can't even imagine the joy felt. My Grandmother used to ask us kids every-time we passed a cemetery while driving "why do you put a fence around the cemetery? Because people are dieing to get in". She thought she was funny.
VideoGameJunkie Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 Haha I'd have either laughed at your grandmother's joke or smiled and nodded my head.
Mormonmaniac Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 In my mind, the Kingdom of God includes all Kingdoms of Glory, so in a way it can be the Kingdom of God or Damnation(Outer Darkness). I agree. The only real conflict is in our definitions of who gets into the kingdom of heaven and its requirements. According to our doctrine, a person who remains unrepentant can make it into the kingdom of heaven in the lowest degree and be saved from hell. But, that goes against every teaching in the Book of Mormon.
teddyaware Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 I agree. The only real conflict is in our definitions of who gets into the kingdom of heaven and its requirements. According to our doctrine, a person who remains unrepentant can make it into the kingdom of heaven in the lowest degree and be saved from hell. But, that goes against every teaching in the Book of Mormon. Show me where in any of the LDS scriptures it's taught that "a person who remains unrepentant can make it into the kingdom of heaven in the lowest degree and be saved from hell"?
Mormonmaniac Posted April 25, 2015 Posted April 25, 2015 Show me where in any of the LDS scriptures it's taught that "a person who remains unrepentant can make it into the kingdom of heaven in the lowest degree and be saved from hell"?TelestialThese people did not receive the gospel or the testimony of Jesus either on earth or in the spirit world. They will suffer for their own sins in hell until after the Millennium, when they will be resurrected. “These are they who are liars, and sorcerers, and adulterers, and whoremongers, and whosoever loves and makes a lie.” These people are as numerous as the stars in heaven and the sand on the seashore. They will be visited by the Holy Ghost but not by the Father or the Son. (See D&C 76:81–88, 103–6, 109.) https://www.lds.org/manual/gospel-principles/chapter-46-the-final-judgment?lang=engAlso in the spirit prison are those who rejected the gospel after it was preached to them either on earth or in the spirit prison. These spirits suffer in a condition known as hell. They have removed themselves from the mercy of Jesus Christ, who said, “Behold, I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent; but if they would not repent they must suffer even as I; which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit” (D&C 19:16–18). After suffering for their sins, they will be allowed, through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, to inherit the lowest degree of glory, which is the telestial kingdom. https://www.lds.org/manual/gospel-principles/chapter-41-the-postmortal-spirit-world?lang=eng
Flyonthewall Posted April 25, 2015 Posted April 25, 2015 Telestial These people did not receive the gospel or the testimony of Jesus either on earth or in the spirit world. They will suffer for their own sins in hell until after the Millennium, when they will be resurrected. “These are they who are liars, and sorcerers, and adulterers, and whoremongers, and whosoever loves and makes a lie.” These people are as numerous as the stars in heaven and the sand on the seashore. They will be visited by the Holy Ghost but not by the Father or the Son. (See D&C 76:81–88, 103–6, 109.) https://www.lds.org/manual/gospel-principles/chapter-46-the-final-judgment?lang=eng Also in the spirit prison are those who rejected the gospel after it was preached to them either on earth or in the spirit prison. These spirits suffer in a condition known as hell. They have removed themselves from the mercy of Jesus Christ, who said, “Behold, I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent; but if they would not repent they must suffer even as I; which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit” (D&C 19:16–18). After suffering for their sins, they will be allowed, through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, to inherit the lowest degree of glory, which is the telestial kingdom. https://www.lds.org/manual/gospel-principles/chapter-41-the-postmortal-spirit-world?lang=engI think the point that was trying to be made was they are not spared "hell" as they have to spend time there. So yes, they will be "saved" from hell as they will not permanently stay there, but they will not be "saved" from hell as in not spending time there.
Mormonmaniac Posted April 25, 2015 Posted April 25, 2015 I think the point that was trying to be made was they are not spared "hell" as they have to spend time there.So yes, they will be "saved" from hell as they will not permanently stay there, but they will not be "saved" from hell as in not spending time there.The Book of Mormon states that the unrepentant at resurrection and judgment cannot be saved from an eternal hell. So, the telestial teaching is wrong/ contradicts the Book of Mormon.
Flyonthewall Posted April 25, 2015 Posted April 25, 2015 The Book of Mormon states that the unrepentant at resurrection and judgment cannot be saved from an eternal hell. So, the telestial teaching is wrong/ contradicts the Book of Mormon.The teaching is not wrong as I understand it. Upon death, the unrepentant will go to Spirit Prison, which is their hell. So they are not spared from hell,. One of God's names is Eternal, so God's punishment is Eternal punishment. There they will stay until their resurrection. When they are ressurected, they will inherit the Telestial Kingdom. Although it is a kingdom of glory, it is not in the presence of the Father. There is no eternal progression for them - their progression is dammed. As we have been told, the Telestial Kingdom is better and more glorious than this earth life. The misery that is experienced in the Telestial Kingdom, and this is my opinion, is the knowledge that they missed out on better things because of their own decisions. Though they can experience the Holy Spirit, they area separated from the Father and Son. This works for me, hopefully it helps...
Mormonmaniac Posted April 25, 2015 Posted April 25, 2015 The teaching is not wrong as I understand it.Upon death, the unrepentant will go to Spirit Prison, which is their hell. So they are not spared from hell,. One of God's names is Eternal, so God's punishment is Eternal punishment. There they will stay until their resurrection.When they are ressurected, they will inherit the Telestial Kingdom. Although it is a kingdom of glory, it is not in the presence of the Father. There is no eternal progression for them - their progression is dammed.As we have been told, the Telestial Kingdom is better and more glorious than this earth life. The misery that is experienced in the Telestial Kingdom, and this is my opinion, is the knowledge that they missed out on better things because of their own decisions. Though they can experience the Holy Spirit, they area separated from the Father and Son.This works for me, hopefully it helps...Its not sound doctrine at all. The terrestrial are those who qualify by repenting in spirit prison. The telestial however never repent. How then can they be saved from hell after resurrection if they never change?
Flyonthewall Posted April 25, 2015 Posted April 25, 2015 Its not sound doctrine at all. The terrestrial are those who qualify by repenting in spirit prison. The telestial however never repent. How then can they be saved from hell after resurrection if they never change?They shall be Redeemed 5 These are they who shall not be redeemed from the devil until the last resurrection, until the Lord, even Christ the Lamb, shall have finished his work. So they will be changed, unrepentant going in, but not so coming out. Those who cannot abide by a Telestial law will be without glory - D&C 80 24 And he who cannot abide the law of a telestial kingdom cannot abide a telestial glory; therefore he is not meet for a kingdom of glory. Therefore he must abide a kingdom which is not a kingdom of glory.
Calm Posted April 25, 2015 Posted April 25, 2015 Its not sound doctrine at all. The terrestrial are those who qualify by repenting in spirit prison. The telestial however never repent. How then can they be saved from hell after resurrection if they never change?They may not repent in the sense of seeking out the Atonement and bowing to God out of love and not just recognition of his power over them as Lord, but they must suffer until purified of their sins. IMO this means they will experience the pain they inflicted on others to the extent they will know down to the last atom what effect they have had on others as if that sin had been against themselves instead of committed by them and they will stay in hell until there is a recognition and acceptance that their actions were sinful and must be put aside forever. They will then be clean of sin even if not out of love but out of recognition of what justice is and they will not be ressurrected until they have progressed enough to no longer sin. They will not desire to be in the Terrestrial Kingdom because while they may be without sin, they will also be without love for their fellow men. They may not desire to sin, but they will not have strong desires to do good either. Hell is not like prison often is in mortality, where punishment has no effect on the internal man and may even harden the heart. Hell does not have the disadvantage of being run by those who sin themselves and thus often provide the worse examples of justice and mercy. There will be no way that sinners will be able to deny the wrong they did even if they don't care about it.
VideoGameJunkie Posted April 25, 2015 Posted April 25, 2015 Is eternity with God JUST worshipping Him for eternity, or do we get to do other cool stuff too? I'm not dissing worshipping God, but I hope heaven isn't just one thing.
CCRW Posted April 25, 2015 Posted April 25, 2015 Break time involves lounging in clouds with umbrella drinks 1
Mormonmaniac Posted April 25, 2015 Posted April 25, 2015 They may not repent in the sense of seeking out the Atonement and bowing to God out of love and not just recognition of his power over them as Lord, but they must suffer until purified of their sins. IMO this means they will experience the pain they inflicted on others to the extent they will know down to the last atom what effect they have had on others as if that sin had been against themselves instead of committed by them and they will stay in hell until there is a recognition and acceptance that their actions were sinful and must be put aside forever. They will then be clean of sin even if not out of love but out of recognition of what justice is and they will not be ressurrected until they have progressed enough to no longer sin. They will not desire to be in the Terrestrial Kingdom because while they may be without sin, they will also be without love for their fellow men. They may not desire to sin, but they will not have strong desires to do good either. Hell is not like prison often is in mortality, where punishment has no effect on the internal man and may even harden the heart. Hell does not have the disadvantage of being run by those who sin themselves and thus often provide the worse examples of justice and mercy. There will be no way that sinners will be able to deny the wrong they did even if they don't care about it.But Christ has said that to be saved from hell after resurrection he must repent and be baptized.
teddyaware Posted April 26, 2015 Posted April 26, 2015 (edited) But Christ has said that to be saved from hell after resurrection he must repent and be baptized. Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation 2:22–23. TELESTIAL SALVATION. Those who enter into the telestial kingdom, where their glories differ as do the stars of heaven in their magnitude, and who are innumerable as the sands of the seashore, are the ungodly, the filthy who suffer the wrath of God on the earth, who are thrust down to hell where they will be required to pay the uttermost farthing before their redemption comes. These are they who receive not the gospel of Christ and consequently could not deny the Holy Spirit while living on the earth. They have no part in the first resurrection and are not redeemed from the devil and his angels until the last resurrection, because of their wicked lives and their evil deeds. Nevertheless, even these are heirs of salvation, but before they are redeemed and enter into their kingdom, they must repent of their sins, and receive the gospel, and bow the knee, and acknowledge that Jesus is the Christ, the Redeemer of the world. Edited April 26, 2015 by teddyaware
Mormonmaniac Posted April 26, 2015 Posted April 26, 2015 Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation 2:22–23. TELESTIAL SALVATION. Those who enter into the telestial kingdom, where their glories differ as do the stars of heaven in their magnitude, and who are innumerable as the sands of the seashore, are the ungodly, the filthy who suffer the wrath of God on the earth, who are thrust down to hell where they will be required to pay the uttermost farthing before their redemption comes. These are they who receive not the gospel of Christ and consequently could not deny the Holy Spirit while living on the earth. They have no part in the first resurrection and are not redeemed from the devil and his angels until the last resurrection, because of their wicked lives and their evil deeds. Nevertheless, even these are heirs of salvation, but before they are redeemed and enter into their kingdom, they must repent of their sins, and receive the gospel, and bow the knee, and acknowledge that Jesus is the Christ, the Redeemer of the world. Now, if you could only link that to an actual scripture to back it up we would be in business. This is the foggy part...
BCSpace Posted April 26, 2015 Posted April 26, 2015 (edited) There is the official interpretation as opposed to the BC interpretation: Also see: https://www.lds.org/topics/kingdoms-of-glory?lang=eng There seems to be no difference between 'my interpretation' and the Church's. At some point before the Judgement, you must become LDS (receive the testimony of Jesus), in order to become eligible to inherit the Celestial or Terrestial. Edited April 26, 2015 by BCSpace
teddyaware Posted April 27, 2015 Posted April 27, 2015 (edited) Now, if you could only link that to an actual scripture to back it up we would be in business. This is the foggy part... President Smith's teaching comes straight out of Doctrine & Covenants sections 76 and 138. When you quoted D&C 76, in an attempt to show that the inheritors of the telestial kingdom do not repent and accept Christ as their Saviour before their resurrection, you did so in error. Your error is rooted in the fact that you quoted verse 103 of D&C 76 out of context, not realizing the verses that follow describe a divinely-ordained process designed to change the wicked and rebellious souls, described in verse 103, by bringing them unto Christ. In other words, you did what 99% of the members of the Church do by quoting verse 103 out of context, thereby missing the whole point being made. Here's the verse you quoted out of context: 103 These are they who are liars, and sorcerers, and adulterers, and whoremongers, and whosoever loves and makes a lie. Now I'll quote the verses that follow, which you neglected to quote, and offer commentary on the aforementioned divinely-ordained process that is calculated to change liars, sorcerers, adulterers, whoremongers, and whosoever loves and makes a lie into willing followers of Christ. 104 These are they who suffer the wrath of God on earth. As a consequence of being wicked and rebellious, the souls mentioned in verse 103 are cursed of God and deprived of His blessings while they live on earth. 105 These are they who suffer the vengeance of eternal fire.As a consequence of being wicked and rebellious, the souls mentioned in verse 103 are punished for their sins, their consciences afflicted by the knowledge that they are filthy because they are unforgiven. 106 These are they who are cast down to hell and suffer the wrath of Almighty God, until the fulness of times, when Christ shall have subdued all enemies under his feet, and shall have perfected his work;After death, these souls are temporarily thrust down to hell to suffer for their sins, much as Alma the younger did, and continue to suffer for their sins until Christ succeeds in subduing these, His former enemies, by bringing them to a state of reconciliation with Him. 107 When he shall deliver up the kingdom, and present it unto the Father, spotless, saying: I have overcome and have trodden the wine-press alone, even the wine-press of the fierceness of the wrath of Almighty God.The time will come when when Christ shall have finished His saving work and all, except for the sons of perdition, will be made spotless by His precious blood. In the case of the souls destined for the telestial kingdom of heavenly glory, they will be brought to a state of faith in Christ and repentance by experiencing what is here described as "the wine-press of the fierceness of the wrath of Almighty God," which 'wine-press' is the same kind of hellish experience that eventually brought Alma the younger to a place in his mind and heart where he was able to sincerely call upon Christ for forgiveness. The wine-press of the fierceness of the wrath of Almighty God has the power to bring down the most proud and defiant of sinners to a state of deepest humility by inflicting upon them, without mitigation, the natural consequences of their own sinful folly and rebellion. 108 Then shall he be crowned with the crown of his glory, to sit on the throne of his power to reign forever and ever.The victorious Christ will then rule and reign over all the forgiven souls who dwell in either the celestial, terrestrial or telestial kingdoms of heavenly glory. 109 But behold, and lo, we saw the glory and the inhabitants of the telestial world, that they were as innumerable as the stars in the firmament of heaven, or as the sand upon the seashore;The many souls who inherit the telestial kingdom will inherit a portion of God's glory in the resurrection, not because-- as many erroneously believe -- they aren't quite as evil as the sons of perdition, but because they will eventually come to exercise living faith in Christ and receive forgiveness through His atonement. But they will be relegated to a lower state of heavenly glory because they would not willingly come unto Christ of their own volition, without first having to suffer by being thrust into the wine-press of God's wrath. 110 And heard the voice of the Lord saying: These all shall bow the knee, and every tongue shall confess to him who sits upon the throne forever and ever;All souls who enter the telestial kingdom of heavenly glory will eventually willingly and gratefully bow the knee to God the Father on the day of judgement, and confess to Him that Jesus is the Christ -- even their Christ. This is the same great moment of acknowledgement spoken of by Paul when he said: 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. (Philippians 2) God's tough-love will eventually SAVE ALL HIS CHILDREN, except for the son's of perdition who will remain unforgiven. And this is precisely what is revealed in the great revelation of D&C 76: 39 For all the rest (except for the sons of perdition) shall be brought forth by the resurrection of the dead, through the triumph and the glory of the Lamb, who was slain, who was in the bosom of the Father before the worlds were made. 40 And this is the gospel, the glad tidings, which the voice out of the heavens bore record unto us— 41 That he came into the world, even Jesus, to be crucified for the world, and to bear the sins of the world, and to sanctify the world, and to cleanse it from all unrighteousness; 42 That through him all might be saved whom the Father had put into his power and made by him; 43 Who glorifies the Father, and saves all the works of his hands, except those sons of perdition who deny the Son after the Father has revealed him. So it's clear: Only the sons of perdition will continue to deny Jesus is the Christ after the final judgment All the rest, including the inheritors of the telestial kingdom, will be saved (given a glorious resurrection) and redeemed (forgiven) through "the triumph and glory of the Lamb." There will be none who will save themselves by suffering for their own sins. Such a bizarre and repugnant notion flies in the face of the entirety of holy writ. If men could save themselves (including the inheritors of the telestial kingdom) by suffering for their own sins, there would be no need for a Saviour. And who can deny but that it's the worst of sinners who stand in greatest need of the Saviour's healing power of forgiveness? Suffering in the wine=press of the fierceness of the wrath of Almighty God is calculated to bring men to repentance and forgiveness through Christ, not absolve them from sin. Only the Lord Jesus Christ has the power to do that... it's never a good idea to attempt to understand the scriptures by taking verses out of their proper context. Edited April 27, 2015 by teddyaware 1
Mormonmaniac Posted April 27, 2015 Posted April 27, 2015 The problem is that verse 103 speaks of the present tense of the individual who is already in that kingdom. Remember that Smith saw a vision of the inhabitants and who they were at that time when they are in that kingdom. 103. "These are they who are liars, and sorcerers, and adulterers, and whoremongers, and whosoever loves and makes a lie." So obviously they are still unclean. That is the foggy issue.
teddyaware Posted April 27, 2015 Posted April 27, 2015 (edited) The problem is that verse 103 speaks of the present tense of the individual who is already in that kingdom. Remember that Smith saw a vision of the inhabitants and who they were at that time when they are in that kingdom. 103. "These are they who are liars, and sorcerers, and adulterers, and whoremongers, and whosoever loves and makes a lie."So obviously they are still unclean. That is the foggy issue. Did you actually read my post? Or did you read just a few lines and quit? If you're willing, please answer my post verse by verse, point by point. It's obvious to me you're allowing your preconceived notions to block out new light. You haven't thought the whole thing through. For instance, is verse 106 speaking in the "present tense" when it says the following? 106 These ARE they who are cast down to hell and suffer the wrath of Almighty God, So according to your take, since you believe what's being spoken of is in the "present tense," it seems you must believe the telestial kingdom of glory and hell are one and the same place, and that the inheritors of the telestial kingdom will remain in hell forever? No? After all, you say what's being said about the inheritors of the telestial kingdom is spoken in the present tense, and that must mean -- according to verse 106 -- the inheritors of the telestial will remain in hell forever and the telestial kingdom and hell are one and the same place. Edited April 27, 2015 by teddyaware 1
Mormonmaniac Posted April 28, 2015 Posted April 28, 2015 Did you actually read my post? Or did you read just a few lines and quit? If you're willing, please answer my post verse by verse, point by point. It's obvious to me you're allowing your preconceived notions to block out new light. You haven't thought the whole thing through. For instance, is verse 106 speaking in the "present tense" when it says the following? 106 These ARE they who are cast down to hell and suffer the wrath of Almighty God, So according to your take, since you believe what's being spoken of is in the "present tense," it seems you must believe the telestial kingdom of glory and hell are one and the same place, and that the inheritors of the telestial kingdom will remain in hell forever? No? After all, you say what's being said about the inheritors of the telestial kingdom is spoken in the present tense, and that must mean -- according to verse 106 -- the inheritors of the telestial will remain in hell forever and the telestial kingdom and hell are one and the same place. I read your previous entire posts. All I am interested in is where it says that the telestial actually repent, and are forgiven through the waters of baptism. Where do the scriptures say this?
teddyaware Posted April 28, 2015 Posted April 28, 2015 (edited) I read your previous entire posts. All I am interested in is where it says that the telestial actually repent, and are forgiven through the waters of baptism. Where do the scriptures say this? So in spite of the fact that D&C 76 tells us that the only people whom Christ will not SAVE are the sons of perdition; in spite of the fact that the same section of the D&C tells us that the inhabitants of the telestial kingdom are SAVED; in spite of the fact that we're told that the inhabitants of the telestial kingdom are made HEIRS OF SALVATION through the triumph and glory of the Lamb; in spite of the fact that we are told the inheritors of the telestial kingdom will be REDEEMED (forgiven) through the power of Christ; in spite of the fact that the same section tells us that the inheritors of the telestial kingdom will enjoy the GIFT OF THE HOLY SPIRIT and be VISITED BY ANGELS FROM HEAVEN; in spite of the fact that that the same section tells us that the inhabitants of the telestial kingdom will inherit some of the HEAVENLY MANSIONS OF GLORY that Christ said only the forgiven can obtain; in spite of the fact that the same section tells us that the inheritors of the telestial kingdom will be SERVANTS OF GOD (if you're right, doesn't it seem strange to you that after the final judgment whoremongers and lovers of lies would be made servants of God?); in spite of the fact that section 76 also tells us that, with the exception for the sons of perdition, Christ will present all the rest of the kingdom to the Father SPOTLESS; and in spite of the fact that the same section tells us that the inheritors of the telestial kingdom will get on their knees before the Saviour and worship Him and CONFESS (in the New Testament, a personal confession of faith that Jesus is the Christ goes hand-in-hand with receiving a remission of sins through Him) THAT JESUS IS THE CHRIST... I guess you're still going to cling to that most depressing idea that the inheritors of the telestial kingdom will never have piece of mind and each of them will spend all of eternity in their own personal hell (the Book of Mormon defines hell as a state of existence in which there is no forgiveness and remission of sin). But since you asked, I'll leave you with this: 29 And as I wondered, my eyes were opened, and my understanding quickened, and I perceived that the Lord went not in person among the wicked and the disobedient WHO HAD REJECTED THE TRUTH, to teach them; 30 But behold, from among the righteous, he organized his forces and appointed messengers, clothed with power and authority, and commissioned them to go forth and carry the light of the GOSPEL to them that were in darkness, even to ALL the spirits of men; and thus was the gospel preached to the dead. 31 And the chosen messengers went forth to declare theacceptable day of the Lord and proclaim liberty to the captives who were bound, even unto all who would repent of their sins and receive the GOSPEL. (D&C 138) In spite of all the above, I'm guessing you'll still continue to cling on to what you now believe. So i wish you a lifetime of "joy" as you spend the rest of your days on earth believing the Book of Mormon and the Doctrine & Covenants contradict each other. Edited April 28, 2015 by teddyaware
Mormonmaniac Posted April 28, 2015 Posted April 28, 2015 So in spite of the fact that D&C 76 tells us that the only people whom Christ will not SAVE are the sons of perdition; in spite of the fact that the same section of the D&C tells us that the inhabitants of the telestial kingdom are SAVED; in spite of the fact that we're told that the inhabitants of the telestial kingdom are made HEIRS OF SALVATION through the triumph and glory of the Lamb; in spite of the fact that we are told the inheritors of the telestial kingdom will be REDEEMED (forgiven) through the power of Christ; in spite of the fact that the same section tells us that the inheritors of the telestial kingdom will enjoy the GIFT OF THE HOLY SPIRIT and be VISITED BY ANGELS FROM HEAVEN; in spite of the fact that that the same section tells us that the inhabitants of the telestial kingdom will inherit some of the HEAVENLY MANSIONS OF GLORY that Christ said only the forgiven can obtain; in spite of the fact that the same section tells us that the inheritors of the telestial kingdom will be SERVANTS OF GOD (if you're right, doesn't it seem strange to you that after the final judgment whoremongers and lovers of lies would be made servants of God?); in spite of the fact that section 76 also tells us that, with the exception for the sons of perdition, Christ will present all the rest of the kingdom to the Father SPOTLESS; and in spite of the fact that the same section tells us that the inheritors of the telestial kingdom will get on their knees before the Saviour and worship Him and CONFESS (in the New Testament, a personal confession of faith that Jesus is the Christ goes hand-in-hand with receiving a remission of sins through Him) THAT JESUS IS THE CHRIST... I guess you're still going to cling to that most depressing idea that the inheritors of the telestial kingdom will never have piece of mind and each of them will spend all of eternity in their own personal hell (the Book of Mormon defines hell as a state of existence in which there is no forgiveness and remission of sin). But since you asked, I'll leave you with this: 29 And as I wondered, my eyes were opened, and my understanding quickened, and I perceived that the Lord went not in person among the wicked and the disobedient WHO HAD REJECTED THE TRUTH, to teach them; 30 But behold, from among the righteous, he organized his forces and appointed messengers, clothed with power and authority, and commissioned them to go forth and carry the light of the GOSPEL to them that were in darkness, even to ALL the spirits of men; and thus was the gospel preached to the dead. 31 And the chosen messengers went forth to declare theacceptable day of the Lord and proclaim liberty to the captives who were bound, even unto all who would repent of their sins and receive the GOSPEL. (D&C 138) In spite of all the above, I'm guessing you'll still continue to cling on to what you now believe. So i wish you a lifetime of "joy" as you spend the rest of your days on earth believing the Book of Mormon and the Doctrine & Covenants contradict each other. It never says that the telestial inhabitants repent and are baptized. We know terrestrial inhabitants repent and are baptized but it never says that the telestial repent and are baptized. That is precisely why the church teaches that the telestial do not repent or are baptized.
teddyaware Posted April 28, 2015 Posted April 28, 2015 (edited) It never says that the telestial inhabitants repent and are baptized. We know terrestrial inhabitants repent and are baptized but it never says that the telestial repent and are baptized. That is precisely why the church teaches that the telestial do not repent or are baptized. I'm wondering if you have the ability to understand plain English or if you're just putting me on... 30 But behold, from among the righteous, he organized his forces and appointed messengers, clothed with power and authority, and commissioned them to go forth and carry the light of the GOSPEL to them that were in darkness, even to ALL the spirits of men; and thus was the gospel preached to the dead. What is it about the words "carry the light of the Gospel" (which Gospel most assuredly includes repentance and baptism) and the words "to ALL the spirits of men" (which includes everyone) that you don't understand? Please explain to me what this verse means according to your understanding? 31 And the chosen messengers went forth to declare the acceptable day of the Lord and proclaim liberty to the captives who were bound, even unto all who would repent of their sins and receive the GOSPEL. Since verse 30 makes it clear the GOSPEL is preached to ALL the dead (including those who rejected the Gospel on earth and are confined to the darkness of the spirit prison) what is it about the words " ALL WHO WOULD REPENT OF THEIR SINS AND RECEIVE GOSPEL" that you don't understand? Edited April 29, 2015 by teddyaware
Mormonmaniac Posted April 29, 2015 Posted April 29, 2015 I'm wondering if you have the ability to understand plain English or if you're just putting me on... 30 But behold, from among the righteous, he organized his forces and appointed messengers, clothed with power and authority, and commissioned them to go forth and carry the light of the GOSPEL to them that were in darkness, even to ALL the spirits of men; and thus was the gospel preached to the dead. What is it about the words "carry the light of the Gospel" (which Gospel most assuredly includes repentance and baptism) and the words "to ALL the spirits of men" (which includes everyone) that you don't understand? Please explain to me what this verse means according to your understanding? 31 And the chosen messengers went forth to declare the acceptable day of the Lord and proclaim liberty to the captives who were bound, even unto all who would repent of their sins and receive the GOSPEL. Since verse 30 makes it clear the GOSPEL is preached to ALL the dead (including those who rejected the Gospel on earth and are confined to the darkness of the spirit prison) what is it about the words " ALL WHO WOULD REPENT OF THEIR SINS AND RECEIVE GOSPEL" that you don't understand?Relax brother. You are getting all worked up. Section 138 speaks about sending missionaries to hell to teach the prisoners there. But, where does it say that those being taught and repent are the telestial? It doesnt. Still foggy. 1
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