Questions About Lds Heaven And Eternity With God

[teddyaware]

Relax brother. You are getting all worked up. Section 138 speaks about sending missionaries to hell to teach the prisoners there. But, where does it say that those being taught and repent are the telestial? It doesnt. Still foggy.

 

Don't you get it? it says that the GOSPEL is preached to ALL OF THE DEAD -- and that means everybody!

 

There are actually at least two verses of scripture that directly teach that the inheritors of the telestial kingdom need to be baptized before the resurrection, and I was going to save those references till last; but now I'm going to hold back and let you find them on your own.

 

Maybe we'll chat again on some other thread. All the best...

Edited April 29, 2015 by teddyaware

[Mormonmaniac]

Don't you get it? it says that the GOSPEL is preached to ALL OF THE DEAD -- and that means everybody!

 

There are actually at least two verses of scripture that directly teach that the inheritors of the telestial kingdom need to be baptized before the resurrection, and I was going to save those references till last; but now I'm going to hold back and let you find them on your own.

 

Maybe we'll chat again on some other thread. All the best...

Not really sure why you are getting all worked up? We do know the terrestrial accept the gospel in the spirit prison, that being why they go to the terrestrial. The only difference with them and the telestial ia that th telestial do not accept the gospel nor repent. That is LDS doctrine.

[VideoGameJunkie]

I thought the temple work we do for the dead, the baptisms all the way up to the sealings is so those in spirit prison can be freed and go to spirit paradise and then the Celestial Kingdom. I mean, isn't that the point of our temple work? To get the dead to the Celestial Kingdom?

[teddyaware]

Not really sure why you are getting all worked up? We do know the terrestrial accept the gospel in the spirit prison, that being why they go to the terrestrial. The only difference with them and the telestial ia that th telestial do not accept the gospel nor repent. That is LDS doctrine.

 

That is not LDS doctrine. You obviously haven't seriously read and pondered what I've posted. What this exercise in frustration boils down to is that you've got a cherished notion in your head (a very depressing cherished notion) that you are totally unwilling to let go of even when a substantial amount of perfectly logical scriptural evidence is presented that proves you are in error. And previous to presenting you with so much scriptural evidence, did I not supply a quote from President Joseph Fielding Smith wherein he clearly stated that the inheritors of the telestial kingdom must must repent and receive the Gospel before they can enter that kingdom of kingdom of glory? Here's the quote:

 

 

They have no part in the first resurrection and are not redeemed from the devil and his 

angels until the last resurrection, because of their wicked lives and their evil deeds. 

Nevertheless, even these are heirs of salvation, but before they are redeemed and enter into 

their kingdom, they must repent of their sins, and receive the gospel, and bow the knee, 

and acknowledge that Jesus is the Christ, the Redeemer of the world. 

 

But even President Smith's words have had absolutely no affect that might cause you to open your mind a little to new truths.

 

I'm calling it quits unless you're willing to answer my posts point by point, staring with post #68 on this thread. If you're unwilling to answer my posts point by point -- and not just continue to make dogmatic declarations -- it will be pointless to continue.

 

if I appear "worked up," it's because I always get frustrated with people who seem to be unable to listen to reason. The points I've made are very logical and reasonable, yet you seem to be unable or unwilling to follow my train of logical thought. 

 

But as I said, unless you're willing to answer my posts point by point, this will be my last response to you on this thread.

Edited April 29, 2015 by teddyaware

[HappyJackWagon]

 

That is not LDS doctrine. You obviously haven't seriously read and pondered what I've posted. What this exercise in frustration boils down to is that you've got a cherished notion in your head (a very depressing cherished notion) that you are totally unwilling to let go of even when a substantial amount of perfectly logical scriptural evidence is presented that proves you are in error. And previous to presenting you with so much scriptural evidence, did I not supply a quote from President Joseph Fielding Smith wherein he clearly stated that the inheritors of the telestial kingdom must must repent and receive the Gospel before they can enter that kingdom of kingdom of glory? Here's the quote:

 

 

They have no part in the first resurrection and are not redeemed from the devil and his 

angels until the last resurrection, because of their wicked lives and their evil deeds. 

Nevertheless, even these are heirs of salvation, but before they are redeemed and enter into 

their kingdom, they must repent of their sins, and receive the gospel, and bow the knee, 

and acknowledge that Jesus is the Christ, the Redeemer of the world. 

 

But even President Smith's words have had absolutely no affect that might cause you to open your mind a little to new truths.

 

I'm calling it quits unless you're willing to answer my posts point by point, staring with post #68 on this thread. If you're unwilling to answer my posts point by point -- and not just continue to make dogmatic declarations -- it will be pointless to continue.

 

if I appear "worked up," it's because I always get frustrated with people who seem to be unable to listen to reason. The points I've made are very logical and reasonable, yet you seem to be unable or unwilling to follow my train of logical thought. 

 

But as I said, unless you're willing to answer my posts point by point, this will be my last response to you on this thread.

 

This is totally rude and condescending Teddy. If that's your intent, well done!

But I think you're doing some amazing yoga stretches here to try to answer the question. The real answer is the scriptures don't precisely address repentence and baptism in the Telestial World. It's okay to admit that but if it makes you uncomfortable you can just keep stretching.

[Calm]

I thought the temple work we do for the dead, the baptisms all the way up to the sealings is so those in spirit prison can be freed and go to spirit paradise and then the Celestial Kingdom. I mean, isn't that the point of our temple work? To get the dead to the Celestial Kingdom?

If they so choose, yes.

[Mormonmaniac]

That is not LDS doctrine. You obviously haven't seriously read and pondered what I've posted. What this exercise in frustration boils down to is that you've got a cherished notion in your head (a very depressing cherished notion) that you are totally unwilling to let go of even when a substantial amount of perfectly logical scriptural evidence is presented that proves you are in error. And previous to presenting you with so much scriptural evidence, did I not supply a quote from President Joseph Fielding Smith wherein he clearly stated that the inheritors of the telestial kingdom must must repent and receive the Gospel before they can enter that kingdom of kingdom of glory? Here's the quote:

 

 

They have no part in the first resurrection and are not redeemed from the devil and his 

angels until the last resurrection, because of their wicked lives and their evil deeds. 

Nevertheless, even these are heirs of salvation, but before they are redeemed and enter into 

their kingdom, they must repent of their sins, and receive the gospel, and bow the knee, 

and acknowledge that Jesus is the Christ, the Redeemer of the world. 

 

But even President Smith's words have had absolutely no affect that might cause you to open your mind a little to new truths.

 

I'm calling it quits unless you're willing to answer my posts point by point, staring with post #68 on this thread. If you're unwilling to answer my posts point by point -- and not just continue to make dogmatic declarations -- it will be pointless to continue.

 

if I appear "worked up," it's because I always get frustrated with people who seem to be unable to listen to reason. The points I've made are very logical and reasonable, yet you seem to be unable or unwilling to follow my train of logical thought. 

 

But as I said, unless you're willing to answer my posts point by point, this will be my last response to you on this thread.

So, do you agree with or disagree with this LDS doctrine-

"Also in the spirit prison are those who rejected the gospel after it was preached to them either on earth or in the spirit prison. These spirits suffer in a condition known as hell. They have removed themselves from the mercy of Jesus Christ, who said, “Behold, I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent; but if they would not repent they must suffer even as I; which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit” (D&C 19:16–18). After suffering for their sins, they will be allowed, through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, to inherit the lowest degree of glory, which is the telestial kingdom." https://www.lds.org/manual/gospel-principles/chapter-41-the-postmortal-spirit-world?lang=eng

[teddyaware]

So, do you agree with or disagree with this LDS doctrine-

"Also in the spirit prison are those who rejected the gospel after it was preached to them either on earth or in the spirit prison. These spirits suffer in a condition known as hell. They have removed themselves from the mercy of Jesus Christ, who said, “Behold, I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent; but if they would not repent they must suffer even as I; which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit” (D&C 19:16–18). After suffering for their sins, they will be allowed, through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, to inherit the lowest degree of glory, which is the telestial kingdom." https://www.lds.org/manual/gospel-principles/chapter-41-the-postmortal-spirit-world?lang=eng

 

Now I see why you're confused. This statement does not conform to President Smith's statement and does not harmonize with the verses of scripture I have been quoting. While the statement is partially correct, it is terse and somewhat misleading. While I have much to say in response to this statement, I do not have the time to do so now. But let me ask you the following 4 questions: The above statement says:

 

"After suffering for their sins, they will be allowed, through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, to inherit the lowest degree of glory, which is the telestial kingdom."

 

1) Do you believe that those who suffer "for their sins" will through that suffering ATONE for their own sins without needing the atonement of Christ?

 

2) How can these same people "be allowed, THROUGH THE ATONEMENT OF CHRIST, to inherit the lowest degree of glory" when they have utterly rejected the atonement of Christ? Does God force salvation down their throats?

 

3) Also, do you remember that the verses from D&C 19, quoted in the above statement, say that the reason why God causes the wicked suffer in the way described is to bring then to a state of humility before Christ? 

 

 

 

Edited April 30, 2015 by teddyaware

[Mormonmaniac]

Now I see why you're confused. This statement does not conform to President Smith's statement and does not harmonize with the verses of scripture I have been quoting. While the statement is partially correct, it is terse and somewhat misleading. While I have much to say in response to this statement, I do not have the time to do so now. But let me ask you the following 4 questions: The above statement says:

 

"After suffering for their sins, they will be allowed, through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, to inherit the lowest degree of glory, which is the telestial kingdom."

 

1) Do you believe that those who suffer "for their sins" will through that suffering ATONE for their own sins without needing the atonement of Christ?

 

2) How can these same people "be allowed, THROUGH THE ATONEMENT OF CHRIST, to inherit the lowest degree of glory" when they have utterly rejected the atonement of Christ? Does God force salvation down their throats?

 

3) Also, do you remember that the verses from D&C 19, quoted in the above statement, say that the reason why God causes the wicked suffer in the way described is to bring then to a state of humility before Christ?

Ahh..now we getting to that foggy part of LDS salvation. To your #1. No suffering alone without repentance and baptism is sufficient for salvation. So, no.

#2. One cannot possibly be saved if they have removed themselves from Christ.

[teddyaware]

Ahh..now we getting to that foggy part of LDS salvation. To your #1. No suffering alone without repentance and baptism is sufficient for salvation. So, no.

#2. One cannot possibly be saved if they have removed themselves from Christ.

 

Do you believe the resurrected men and women who will inhabit the telestial kingdom of glory are saved? 

 

(It would be nice if you would fill in your profile so I could learn if you are an active member of the LDS or Church, or if you're something else? It's hard to tell where you're coming from.)

[Mormonmaniac]

Do you believe the resurrected men and women who will inhabit the telestial kingdom of glory are saved?

(It would be nice if you would fill in your profile so I could learn if you are an active member of the LDS or Church, or if you're something else? It's hard to tell where you're coming from.)

I am active LDS member. I believe that all the saved will have to repent and be baptized just as the Book of Mormon states. Now as to where they will go after that we know there are many mansions within the Kingdom of heaven. I think it is bad for the church to teach as the Gospel principles manual teaches where the telestial are said to not repent. Section 76 is very confusing when trying to understood through the Book of Mormon plan of salvation lens.

I think we are on the same page for the most part. I am just trying to state that the way the church teaches it is really foggy and doesnt make much sense.

Edited May 1, 2015 by Mormonmaniac