Excommunicatin'

[ALarson]

I wish John Dehlin the best and actually hope this will be a good thing for him.  His being in the church, then out, then back in, then back out, had to have been incredibly stressful for him and also for his family.  I do have to wonder how his wife and kids feel about all of this?  I haven't followed him closely, but last I heard, his kids still wanted to attend.  His wife has to be one patient lady too!

 

I also wish that he wouldn't make everything so public.  That has to be painful for his kids (and wife too).

Edited January 15, 2015 by ALarson

[stemelbow]

John's narrative of Church history is even more off then even the most naive members of the Church.

Well not completely sure of that. But no doubt the narratives he creates in his criticisms have problems. I've detected them a few times. Will he acknowledge that? Don't know...don't care. But surely he objects to the LDS person's narrative most often.

[Mystery Meat]

I also wish that he wouldn't make everything so public.  That also has to be painful for his kids (and wife too).

 

If nothing else, it is very selfish.

[stemelbow]

I wish John Dehlin the best and actually hope this will be a good thing for him.  His being in the church, then out, then back in, then back out, had to have been incredibly stressful for him and also for his family.  I do have to wonder how his wife and kids feel about all of this?  I haven't followed him closely, but last I heard, his kids still wanted to attend.  His wife has to be one patient lady too!

 

I also wish that he wouldn't make everything so public.  That has to be painful for his kids (and wife too).

i wish him the best too. I think some people are better suited out of the Church, eternally so. But I'm weird for thinking that around here.

[ttribe]

of course not, don't be silly

 

some of us are of the opinion that he's been trying to maintain his standing in the Church as a means of obtaining trust from those members who identify as Mormon and may listen to him with a more bended ear than if he were to outright say "hey man i don't believe a word of what thomas s monson says, but here's my take: ..."

 

his approach strikes me as subversive.  but happy he appears to be gone?  or at least celebratory of it?  no way - it sucks all around.  i just don't like what he's been doing for the last couple of years.

 

 

I don't know who you mean, I don't see Dehlin posting here...just playing.

I think most recognize there was some inevitability to it, just like Dehlin himself.

 

Well, post #7 sure doesn't seem filled with compassion.  Just a thought.

[Mars]

Well, post #7 sure doesn't seem filled with compassion.  Just a thought.

 

eh.  it's pretty tame, imo.

[why me]

Well it was supposed to be a local thing--you know decided by local leaders isolated from directive from the central Church. you make it sound like the two cases should have been considered together or something.

I think the delay for John, as he's tried to clarify, is that he SP didn't know him and felt he better take some time to get to know him, or pretend to get to know him, as John seems to think.

There were two issues at play. First was the quashing of article about mormonstories. It was done. Then his return to the fold and the good wishes that he received from the members on the internet. Then, he left the church again and continued with his mormonstories. I think that his ward, bishop, SP have lost patience. The SP had to know of him...he is all over on mormonstories. One must live in a lds bubble not know of john. It is not a matter of knowing him but rather about knowing his work.

[ttribe]

eh.  it's pretty tame, imo.

 

So, there's a range of compassion somehown embedded in the parable of the lost sheep?  I must have missed that nuance.

[Mars]

So, there's a range of compassion somehown embedded in the parable of the lost sheep?  I must have missed that nuance.

 

you found that post inappropriate and demonstrative of the poster's lack of compassion.

 

i took it as a joke and didn't feel the need to obliquely call the guy out.

 

meh.

[ERayR]

Well, post #7 sure doesn't seem filled with compassion.  Just a thought.

 

Some of Nehor's attempt at humor are over the top for me.

[stemelbow]

Well, post #7 sure doesn't seem filled with compassion.  Just a thought.

Not everyone's filled with compassion for everyone else. We should expect some people who have heard of his stories over the years to fill a little relief. It's not like John is some completely innocent bystander.

With that said, I personally take no pleasure here. I've enjoyed a number of the podcasts, can even agree with some of his views. I think he's just some guy out there trying his best, even if some think his best is convoluted backwards and wrong. He seems to think that about others.

[ttribe]

you found that post inappropriate and demonstrative of the poster's lack of compassion.

 

i took it as a joke and didn't feel the need to obliquely call the guy out.

 

meh.

 

"...took it as a joke..."; doesn't that kind of get to the heart of what I pointed out?  Why joke about someone losing their eternal standing?  At the very least is that not in bad taste?

[Avatar4321]

This is the part that I will NEVER understand. The fact that he is being ex'd by the Church only bolsters his credibility in my eyes. And that would be the case no matter what church he had been ex'd from.

For example, it never once occurred to me to discount Martin Luther's views because he was ex'd by the Catholic Church. It only adds to the narrative that the Catholic Church "was afraid of the truth."

So I guess the Church may be successful in quarantining the Dehlin "infection" within Team Never Had a Doubt, but I suspect that his excommunication will have just the opposite effect with questioning Mormons (and the other 99.9% of the world's inhabitants). But hey, life is full of trade-offs, right?

I can't say I'm at all shocked at your reaction. We will welcome you both back when you are ready to return.

[ERayR]

There were two issues at play. First was the quashing of article about mormonstories. It was done. Then his return to the fold and the good wishes that he received from the members on the internet. Then, he left the church again and continued with his mormonstories. I think that his ward, bishop, SP have lost patience. The SP had to know of him...he is all over on mormonstories. One must live in a lds bubble not know of john. It is not a matter of knowing him but rather about knowing his work.

 

I don't know.  I didn't/wouldn't know about him but for the board.

[stemelbow]

So, there's a range of compassion somehown embedded in the parable of the lost sheep?  I must have missed that nuance.

Range of compassion is inherently part of the varied human population. it should be read as a given, it seems to me. my grumpy dad didn't show compassion all the time, but I know he was filled with it during his short life.

Compassion, in this sense, ought to be seen as not what people do to show it, but what is in the heart.

[stemelbow]

"...took it as a joke..."; doesn't that kind of get to the heart of what I pointed out?  Why joke about someone losing their eternal standing?  At the very least is that not in bad taste?

To be fair, the Nehor, myself, John, and Mars have already known exactly the Church's stance, John's stance and how the two didn't fit well together. Methinks you are protesting a little too much.

[why me]

This is the part that I will NEVER understand. The fact that he is being ex'd by the Church only bolsters his credibility in my eyes. And that would be the case no matter what church he had been ex'd from.

For example, it never once occurred to me to discount Martin Luther's views because he was ex'd by the Catholic Church. It only adds to the narrative that the Catholic Church "was afraid of the truth."

So I guess the Church may be successful in quarantining the Dehlin "infection" within Team Never Had a Doubt, but I suspect that his excommunication will have just the opposite effect with questioning Mormons (and the other 99.9% of the world's inhabitants). But hey, life is full of trade-offs, right?

Lets not always be too negative. No church can tolerate someone who is encouraging people to leave the fold from within. If one does not believe in the faith, why remain a member? To help members do what that person can't do himself or herself? What would the baptist church do to a baptist who was encouraging members to leave by doing antibaptist podcasts? Would they give this persons hugs? John has been doing this for quite some time. Martin Luther was considered to be a heretic. And the lutheran church would not tolerate one of its own doing antilutheran podcasts to get members to leave the lutheran church. We need to see life with eyes wide open.

 

http://baptisthistoryhomepage.com/tn.discipline.query.1834.html

Edited January 15, 2015 by why me

[Avatar4321]

I think one of the prevailing criticisms of Dehlin is he hasn't remained consistent over the years.i think many agree though, people are leaving over difficult historical and theological issues these days.

I the to think people are leaving foe pride I'd any reason. Wheather their own or the pride of others.

[Mars]

"...took it as a joke..."; doesn't that kind of get to the heart of what I pointed out?  Why joke about someone losing their eternal standing?  At the very least is that not in bad taste?

 

Oh, for sure.  You're totally correct: the post doesn't show compassion.  And sure, it's in bad taste.  The fact that it's in bad taste is what makes it funny.  I'm not happy he's gone, but the irreverence of the joke is amusing to me.  It's also told via anonymity.  Were I metaphorically closer to the situation, say, inside the room when Dehlin is told he's being ex-communicated (if that's all even going to happen), I would be really upset if someone broke the solemnity and seriousness of the setting with that kind of joke.  But it's not over there.  It's here.  You take it more seriously than I do.  That's a good thing.

 

Sorry, man.  I'm not proud of it...  But it's funny.  I also snicker whenever they say 'duty' during Priesthood Session.  I know, I know...  I'm working on it.

[ttribe]

To be fair, the Nehor, myself, John, and Mars have already known exactly the Church's stance, John's stance and how the two didn't fit well together. Methinks you are protesting a little too much.

 

Since the phrase "methinks you are protesting too much" generally refers to someone who is secretly guilty of the same "sin" as the subject at hand, is there something about my standing in the Church that you know and I don't?

Edited January 15, 2015 by ttribe

[stemelbow]

Since the phrase "methinks you are protesting too much" generally refers to someone who is secretly guilty of the same "sin" as the subject at hand, is there something about my standing in the Church that you know and I don't?

Nah..You're right. That phrase is misused by me.

[ttribe]

Nah..You're right. That phrase is misused by me.

 

Gotcha.  Perhaps the criticism you were looking for was - "Quit your whining.  We've all seen this coming for a long time."

[ERayR]

Gotcha.  Perhaps the criticism you were looking for was - "Quit your whining.  We've all seen this coming for a long time."

 

He has really been pushing for it hasn't he?

[ttribe]

He has really been pushing for it hasn't he?

 

Well, I really don't have an opinion on Dehlin's actions.  I've never found his drama interesting, to tell you the truth.  I just found it interesting that anyone would seem to find humor or joy in the demise of his membership, given certain fundamental doctrines.  That struck me as counterintuitive.  But, I could be wrong.  It's happened before...a few times today, even.

[The Nehor]

Some of Nehor's attempt at humor are over the top for me.

I intentionally toned it down from Kate Kelly's excommunication when I posted the "Ding Dong the Witch is Dead" song. There is no pleasing some people.