Stone holm Posted October 28, 2014 Posted October 28, 2014 The internet is posting that Pope Francis just basically supported evolution and the big bang theory, am curious of my Catholic friends as to whether that really is his opinion because there have been hoaxes before, and to what extent this constitutes a change in Catholic doctrine.
thesometimesaint Posted October 28, 2014 Posted October 28, 2014 The internet is posting that Pope Francis just basically supported evolution and the big bang theory, am curious of my Catholic friends as to whether that really is his opinion because there have been hoaxes before, and to what extent this constitutes a change in Catholic doctrine. It is nothing new. In 1950 the then Pope said essentially the same thing.
Boanerges Posted October 28, 2014 Posted October 28, 2014 (edited) I like this pope. I wish he was an apostle - or even the prophet. Edited October 28, 2014 by Boanerges 1
The Nehor Posted October 28, 2014 Posted October 28, 2014 Yeah, this is not new.I like this pope. I wish he was an apostle - or even the prophet.Convert. 1
3DOP Posted October 28, 2014 Posted October 28, 2014 The internet is posting that Pope Francis just basically supported evolution and the big bang theory, am curious of my Catholic friends as to whether that really is his opinion because there have been hoaxes before, and to what extent this constitutes a change in Catholic doctrine. Hi stone holm. It is probably his opinion. But surely you don't think we believe that a pope's opinion is binding on the faithful? Catholic doctrine is that mere opinions of popes are subject to error. As for believing in evolution, I don't think the Church has ever attempted to make a judgment other than to affirm that there were two original parents from which all mankind stems. Even if Pope Francis was of the opinion that there is no such thing as original sin, it would not pose a problem for him unless he tried to formally teach it publicly. The last time a pope did something like that, his teachings were studied and condemned as contrary to Catholic teaching. Under challenge, John XXII changed his mind just before his death in 1334. Google John XXII for more details. I am very confident Pope Francis would never formally teach anything about evolution publicly. Clearly, popes can have opinions that are contrary to Catholic doctrine, and they need to be corrected if they try to teach their errors as Pope John did. That doesn't mean such an one is not the pope, and it cannot mean that the doctrine changes. 1
Damien the Leper Posted October 29, 2014 Posted October 29, 2014 The internet is posting that Pope Francis just basically supported evolution and the big bang theory, am curious of my Catholic friends as to whether that really is his opinion because there have been hoaxes before, and to what extent this constitutes a change in Catholic doctrine.And the angels from heaven rejoiced with the Holy Father.
MormonFreeThinker Posted October 29, 2014 Posted October 29, 2014 (edited) In a few more years the prophet of our church is going to say the same thing. Edited October 29, 2014 by MormonFreeThinker
Rob Osborn Posted October 29, 2014 Posted October 29, 2014 In a few more years the prophet of our church is going to say the same thing. Thanks for the laugh. I needed that. Good day.
Boanerges Posted October 29, 2014 Posted October 29, 2014 In a few more years the prophet of our church is going to say the same thing. I think some of the current Twelve (fifteen) could very well believe it, we just need to wait until it's one of their turns in the big chair.
The Nehor Posted October 29, 2014 Posted October 29, 2014 I think some of the current Twelve (fifteen) could very well believe it, we just need to wait until it's one of their turns in the big chair.I suspect most of them believe it but they hesitate to say it because someone will take it as revelation and not their own conclusions.
The Nehor Posted October 29, 2014 Posted October 29, 2014 And the angels from heaven rejoiced with the Holy Father.Angels must lead boring lives if this is worth rejoicing over. 1
Rivers Posted October 29, 2014 Posted October 29, 2014 Hi stone holm.It is probably his opinion. But surely you don't think we believe that a pope's opinion is binding on the faithful? Catholic doctrine is that mere opinions of popes are subject to error.As for believing in evolution, I don't think the Church has ever attempted to make a judgment other than to affirm that there were two original parents from which all mankind stems. Even if Pope Francis was of the opinion that there is no such thing as original sin, it would not pose a problem for him unless he tried to formally teach it publicly. The last time a pope did something like that, his teachings were studied and condemned as contrary to Catholic teaching. Under challenge, John XXII changed his mind just before his death in 1334. Google John XXII for more details. I am very confident Pope Francis would never formally teach anything about evolution publicly. Clearly, popes can have opinions that are contrary to Catholic doctrine, and they need to be corrected if they try to teach their errors as Pope John did. That doesn't mean such an one is not the pope, and it cannot mean that the doctrine changes.What's your take on evolution?
Damien the Leper Posted October 29, 2014 Posted October 29, 2014 The internet is posting that Pope Francis just basically supported evolution and the big bang theory, am curious of my Catholic friends as to whether that really is his opinion because there have been hoaxes before, and to what extent this constitutes a change in Catholic doctrine.And the angels from heaven rejoiced with the Holy Father.
Rob Osborn Posted October 29, 2014 Posted October 29, 2014 I suspect most of them believe it but they hesitate to say it because someone will take it as revelation and not their own conclusions. I suspect most of them dont believe evolution and side with current revelation on the matter.
Stone holm Posted October 29, 2014 Author Posted October 29, 2014 Thanks for the laugh. I needed that. Good day.Actually, The early Prophets of the Restoration said much more startling things regarding the Creation myths than this.
6EQUJ5 Posted October 29, 2014 Posted October 29, 2014 I suspect most of them dont believe evolution and side with current revelation on the matter. What revelations do you have in mind? I don't think the standard works -- or the temple -- preclude some kind of theistic evolution.
The Nehor Posted October 29, 2014 Posted October 29, 2014 I suspect most of them dont believe evolution and side with current revelation on the matter.By current revelation you mean a book written at least 2,500 years ago (and probably much older) that passed through multiple hands with our first prophet outright stating that it was flawed?
Stone holm Posted October 30, 2014 Author Posted October 30, 2014 By current revelation you mean a book written at least 2,500 years ago (and probably much older) that passed through multiple hands with our first prophet outright stating that it was flawed?No, I am thinking he is more likely throwing Brigham Young under the bus in favor of say Joseph Fielding Smiith and his son in law. I dunno about the Big Bang, but am pretty sure that Mormonism believes less in the magic wand theory of Godship than about any other Christian Faith, and it looks like Pope Francis is moving in our direction.
why me Posted October 30, 2014 Posted October 30, 2014 . I am very confident Pope Francis would never formally teach anything about evolution publicly. Clearly, popes can have opinions that are contrary to Catholic doctrine, and they need to be corrected if they try to teach their errors as Pope John did. That doesn't mean such an one is not the pope, and it cannot mean that the doctrine changes.But there is still the problem that people will believe that the catholic church is changing direction, especially among the catholics. It created useless confusion to have a church leader sounding off about this or that. And the media does not make a difference between opinion and a change of doctrine. Not long ago I was speaking with my catholic friends about evolution and each one supported it and said that the story of adam and eve is not true because it is only allegorical. And just yesterday I was talking to an exnun who said that although the pope is speaking about mercy and love, he is still possibly 'destroying' the church through his opinions. I have this feeling that pope francis has gotten the needed positive media attention to fend off any challenge from the bishops and cardinals. I am finding catholics becoming more confused over issues that used to cause no confusion. 1
why me Posted October 30, 2014 Posted October 30, 2014 I like this pope. I wish he was an apostle - or even the prophet.I think that those who have left the church would certainly love the pope's comments about evolution. It would confirm to them that the church was not true. And they would certainly love the prophet straying off course from the normal beliefs patterns like evolution etc. I am beginning to think that with this pope that the catholic is no longer a church that is in the world but rather is quickly becoming a church that is also of the world. How catholics manage his opinions that seem to sound like changes in doctrine is anyone's guess, if I am right.
Boanerges Posted October 30, 2014 Posted October 30, 2014 I think that those who have left the church would certainly love the pope's comments about evolution. It would confirm to them that the church was not true. And they would certainly love the prophet straying off course from the normal beliefs patterns like evolution etc. I am beginning to think that with this pope that the catholic is no longer a church that is in the world but rather is quickly becoming a church that is also of the world. How catholics manage his opinions that seem to sound like changes in doctrine is anyone's guess, if I am right.Interesting perspective. I'm not so sure about the whole doctrine aspect of it - neither side is actively taught at present and as I said earlier just wait until the right guy gets in the big chair. I have no doubt there are members of the highest councils of the church who believe in evolution and the big bang.
KevinG Posted October 30, 2014 Posted October 30, 2014 I'm trying to find a quote... I think it was Dalin Oaks. Something along the lines of God hasn't revealed all of the details of how creation happened, but we know why it happened. Help?
thesometimesaint Posted October 30, 2014 Posted October 30, 2014 I'm trying to find a quote... I think it was Dalin Oaks. Something along the lines of God hasn't revealed all of the details of how creation happened, but we know why it happened. Help? Not a Dallin Oaks statement by one approved of by the First Presidency.SEE http://www.mormonchannel.org/our-heavenly-fathers-plan?v=1834798902001〈=eng#video=we-lived-with-god&cid=HPMO102714514
MormonFreeThinker Posted October 30, 2014 Posted October 30, 2014 Thanks for the laugh. I needed that. Good day. Your welcome, but the Theory of Evolution does not contradict the doctrine of the church, that is why General Authorities are not worried http://www.pewforum.org/2007/05/16/in-focus-mormonism-in-modern-america/ In a rare interview, Russell M. Nelson, a member of the church’s Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, recently talked with the Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life about the church’s role in American society. Lance B. Wickman, the church’s general counsel, joined him in the telephone interview from the denomination’s headquarters. Conservative denominations tend to have more trouble with Darwinian evolution. Does the church have an official position on this topic? Nelson: We believe that God is our creator and that he has created other forms of life. It’s interesting to me, drawing on my 40 years experience as a medical doctor, how similar those species are. We developed open-heart surgery, for example, experimenting on lower animals simply because the same creator made the human being. We owe a lot to those lower species. But to think that man evolved from one species to another is, to me, incomprehensible. Why is that? Nelson: Man has always been man. Dogs have always been dogs. Monkeys have always been monkeys. It’s just the way genetics works. Wickman: The Scripture describing the Lord as the creator of all of these things says very little about how it was done. I don’t know of anybody in the ranks of the First Presidency and the Twelve [Apostles] who has ever spent much time worrying about this matter of evolution. Nelson: We have this doctrine, recorded in the Doctrine and Covenants, Section 101: “When the Lord shall come again, he shall reveal all things, things which have passed, hidden things which no man knew, things of the earth by which it was made and the purpose and the end thereof, things most precious, things that are above, things that are beneath, things that are in the earth, upon the earth, and in heaven.” So as I close that quotation, I realize that there are just some things that we won’t know until that day.
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