canard78 Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 ChristHe was the first one on my list. Now I'm going to have query your first
EllenMaksoud Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 It was explained to me thusly:It'll be necessary in exaltation for men to have multiple wives simply because there won't be enough worthy men to go around. The reason given was that men are more carnal by nature, and fewer males than females will make it to that point.Now, gentlemen of this thread, I sure mean no insult to you.This is simply what I was taught long ago by my Home Teacher when I broached the subject. It made sense to me, and I've never had a problem with the idea since then.OH, I love your point of view after being force fed the Islamic idea that fewer women will get to Jenna (Heaven) than men because we are more easily driven to sin.
EllenMaksoud Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 I realize that polygamy can be problematic for some people. However, I have a tough time condemning it when so many of the ancient prophets and men of God practiced the same thing. Social mores are rather fluid and can change and mutate into all kinds of weird relationships that are deemed acceptable. It is hard for me to become exercised over this particular issue. I would not want to practice it for all the tea in China, but I understand how others might find it a comfortable fit for them. Frankly, I have a tough time condemning our wayward brothers and sisters that practice it today. I live in the Middle East and it is practiced here today without any apparent argument or condemnation from those that live it. Our Puritan heritage makes must of us quite strict in what we deem acceptable and what we deem unacceptable. God does not seem to mind one way or another when it comes to committed relationships between a man and a woman or women IF they are married. Um, so who did the first marriage ceremony?
JLHPROF Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 Um, so who did the first marriage ceremony? God
USU78 Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 (edited) Um, so who did the first marriage ceremony? G-d, as reported in Genesis 2: 21 And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; 22 And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. 23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman [Isha], because she was taken out of Man [Ish[/]]. 24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. 25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed. Edited October 22, 2014 by USU78
EllenMaksoud Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 G-d, as reported in Genesis 2:So, "G-d's" proceedure was nothing like mans, I assume.
USU78 Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 So, "G-d's" proceedure was nothing like mans, I assume. No idea. There are cultural presuppositions in the text [He "brought" her unto him] that may well not obtain.
why me Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 I wonder how many more members there would be if polygamy had never happened, I'd venture to say millions more perhaps.Maybe not. I don't think that polygamy is a big deal among investigators. And we need to remember that it is the spirit that testifies to the truth and that has been happening with the church history with polygamy. Also, polygamy is no big thing in africa. In fact, it probably helps the church in africa. Most people know that the mormons practiced polygamy. They knew it for ages, especially Utah polygamy. We had that in history class in high school back in the 70s. However, it can become a big thing because critics make it a big thing in a negative way. The church doesn't rise and fall with polygamy but with the book of mormon. If that book is true, polygamy does not matter.
VideoGameJunkie Posted October 22, 2014 Author Posted October 22, 2014 (edited) The Doctrine and Covenants is just as important as the Book of Mormon. D&C 76 talking about the 3 degrees of glory and D&C 132 the part that talks about marriage for exaltation is what my focus on the church has been. Along with holding to the iron rod of course. What's cool about the 3 degrees of glory revealed to Joseph Smith in D&C 76, is that a man by the name of Emmanuel Swedenborg wrote a book in the 1700s called Heaven and Hell. He claimed he was constantly visited by angels and saw the afterlife and he claimed there were 3 degrees of glory and that the highest was called the Celestial Kingdom and that there were 3 levels in the Celestial Kingdom. This is awesome because this is a guy from the 1700s writing the same thing that Joseph Smith revealed in the 1800s so it must be true. Some critics though try to claim that Joseph Smith read his book and copied him for D&C 76. Swedenborg also talks about how they represent the sun, moon, and stars, and how we go to a spirit world to wait judgement. Just look up similarties between Emmanuel Swedenborg and Joseph Smith and they're fascinating. It proves what they both taught is true since more than one person claimed it. And I know Joseph Smith was familiar with Swedenborg's work. Edited October 22, 2014 by VideoGameJunkie
Calm Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 He was the first one on my list. Now I'm going to have query your first The Father and the Son....put them in any order you want.
KevinG Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 ... The church doesn't rise and fall with polygamy but with the book of mormon. If that book is true, polygamy does not matter.Unless of course, as Brother Brigham pointed out, you were commanded by God to accept it at least in principle, and you rejected it.I look forward to the day when society can muster as much outrage for fatherless children, and serial monogamy, as it does faithful polygamists. 2
JLHPROF Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 The church doesn't rise and fall with polygamy but with the book of mormon. If that book is true, polygamy does not matter. Actually, I would say that polygamy only matters if the Book of Mormon is true and both depend on Joseph Smith. As President Hinckley told us, our whole religion hinges on the First Vision. If Joseph wasn't called to restore the gospel in that vision then everything we believe in, from the Book of Mormon to Polygamy is a sham.
KevinG Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 Actually, I would say that polygamy only matters if the Book of Mormon is true and both depend on Joseph Smith. As President Hinckley told us, our whole religion hinges on the First Vision. If Joseph wasn't called to restore the gospel in that vision then everything we believe in, from the Book of Mormon to Polygamy is a sham.It depends on God, the central character of the first vision. Joseph was the messenger, but it could have been anyone who answered Gods call. I say that to avoid any confusion over who we worship. There are many false preachers who would muddy those waters for our investigators.
canard78 Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 The Father and the Son....put them in any order you want. Aha! I must have misread your first post. I thought you'd meant there have been two perfect men in mortality. I thought you were possibly being generous to Mr Calmoriah.
VideoGameJunkie Posted October 22, 2014 Author Posted October 22, 2014 No one has an answer to the fact that 1700s Emmanuel Swedenborg wrote about stuff Joseph Smith claimed were revelations in the 1800s after having read his book Heaven and Hell. Did JS steal from Swedenborg? 1
KevinG Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 No one has an answer to the fact that 1700s Emmanuel Swedenborg wrote about stuff Joseph Smith claimed were revelations in the 1800s after having read his book Heaven and Hell. Did JS steal from Swedenborg?Shhhh... It is hidden here. http://en.fairmormon.org/Plan_of_salvation/Three_degrees_of_glory/Swedenborg Don't tell!
VideoGameJunkie Posted October 22, 2014 Author Posted October 22, 2014 Thanks for the link. Is fair mormon a trustworthy source?
KevinG Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 Thanks for the link. Is fair mormon a trustworthy source?Not if you are an anti mormon trying to prove the Saints a bunch of hell bound cultists. But I'd say it is pretty good and uses source materials whenever possible.
Calm Posted October 23, 2014 Posted October 23, 2014 (edited) Aha! I must have misread your first post. I thought you'd meant there have been two perfect men in mortality. I thought you were possibly being generous to Mr Calmoriah.No way. I love him dearly and he is so very, very wonderful, but he isn't perfect by far. I would hate it if he was because then I wouldn't have any excuse when I goof off. He is almost perfect for me though. Does that make sense? Edited October 23, 2014 by calmoriah 1
Calm Posted October 23, 2014 Posted October 23, 2014 (edited) Thanks for the link. Is fair mormon a trustworthy source?I belong to Fairmormon so I hope so….in the sense we try hard to get it right and seem to most of the time and correct it when we don't, at least in my opinion and those I trust. But we aren't infallible and we may interpret something incorrectly at times and we don't have access to all history so have to make due with what we have. Edited October 23, 2014 by calmoriah
Avatar4321 Posted October 23, 2014 Posted October 23, 2014 No one has an answer to the fact that 1700s Emmanuel Swedenborg wrote about stuff Joseph Smith claimed were revelations in the 1800s after having read his book Heaven and Hell. Did JS steal from Swedenborg?doesn't there need to be a question before people will answer?No one has an answer to the fact that 1700s Emmanuel Swedenborg wrote about stuff Joseph Smith claimed were revelations in the 1800s after having read his book Heaven and Hell. Did JS steal from Swedenborg?
KevinG Posted October 23, 2014 Posted October 23, 2014 doesn't there need to be a question before people will answer?There is that. And yet intolerant, indecent, and arrogant me provided a quick link to an article discussing the similarities and differences between Swedenborg and Smiths writings. I been waded through the obligatory Google results on the Swedish Rescue, and postings for Recovery from Murmerism, to find it.It's no wonder I haven't driven everyone on the Internet away from the church with my callous and unsympathetic posts.
KevinG Posted October 23, 2014 Posted October 23, 2014 I just had a horrible thought. Am I channeling DCP tonight?
Avatar4321 Posted October 23, 2014 Posted October 23, 2014 I just had a horrible thought. Am I channeling DCP tonight?can you channel living people?
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted October 23, 2014 Posted October 23, 2014 (edited) Sorry, I don't know what you mean.What it means is that your explanation is old fashion and invalid. Except it really isn't. I was taught this too and I have no problem with this. Men are stupid at times and women are more caring as a result I would not doubt that there would be more women than men. I would I be surprised if this really does happen? Nope. Is there another explanation that makes sense too? I am sure there is. Really the reason people have a problem with polygamy is due to a cultural bias against it. I have yet to hear a compelling reason why it is bad esp when sanctioned by God. Edited October 23, 2014 by Mola Ram Suda Ram
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