ERayR Posted September 9, 2014 Posted September 9, 2014 And you would agree that this rebuilt Temple (prior to the Second Coming) will have nothing whatsoever to do with the LDS church--based on what you have said up to this point. Agree? I will not agree or disagree with that perception.
Vance Posted September 9, 2014 Posted September 9, 2014 (edited) Chris Smith doesn't speak for the Church, your leaders do. So what do you think about what your leaders have said about animal sacrifices? Do you believe them?You really are dense. You have yet to show where the phrase "animal sacrifice" has been used by one of our leaders in an authoritative (doctrinal) setting. Edited September 9, 2014 by Vance
Vance Posted September 9, 2014 Posted September 9, 2014 I think if you want to take the time you will find that those sacrifices will be done by the Sons of Levi or in other words Israelite priests.Well, I do know this. D&C 13:1 Upon you my fellow servants, in the name of Messiah I confer the Priesthood of Aaron, which holds the keys of the ministering of angels, and of the gospel of repentance, and of baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; and this shall never be taken again from the earth, until the sons of Levi do offer again an offering unto the Lord in righteousness. But the type of "offering" is not specified. As well as this, D&C 128:24 Behold, the great day of the Lord is at hand; and who can abide the day of his coming, and who can stand when he appeareth? For he is like a refiner’s fire, and like fuller’s soap; and he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver, and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the Lord an offering in righteousness. Let us, therefore, as a church and a people, and as Latter-day Saints, offer unto the Lord an offering in righteousness; and let us present in his holy temple, when it is finished, a book containing the records of our dead, which shall be worthy of all acceptation. But, again, the type of offering is not specified, but appears to be type of offering offered by LD Saints. I suspect anything more than this is speculation.
Vance Posted September 9, 2014 Posted September 9, 2014 (edited) But the LDS quotes say that animal sacrifices will be part of the restoration. You keep using the phrase "animal sacrifices" as if you know what you are talking about. Yet you haven't provide any LDS doctrinal sources that uses that phrase. Edited September 9, 2014 by Vance
mfbukowski Posted September 10, 2014 Posted September 10, 2014 Perhaps you could clarify what you believe on this matter. Will animal sacrifices be restored as part of the "restoration"?I don't really care. I have no opinion.Why do you imagine is it important? And why don't you answer my questions????? 1
mfbukowski Posted September 10, 2014 Posted September 10, 2014 You keep using the phrase "animal sacrifices" as if you know what you are talking about. Yet you haven't provide any LDS doctrinal sources that uses that phrase.Of course the problem is the definition of "doctrinal sources"- he is trying to trap us on that I think, but in fact Evangelicals have no doctrine themselves. Every pastor in town has his own idea. One faith one baptism? Hardly! 1
mfbukowski Posted September 10, 2014 Posted September 10, 2014 But we are not talking about LDS missionaries. We are speaking about the two witnesses of Revelation. Do you really believe that their 3 1/2 years will be stealth--such that not a single person has heard or spoken about them?You really don't know what you are talking about. A testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy- you cannot know that Jesus is the Christ without the spirit of prophecy. Every missionary in the Jerusalem center- every teacher, every person there is a "prophet" in the above sense. It could be any of them. It could be visiting apostles. There has been volumes of speculation about this point- you think you are the first to bring this up??? No one knows, no one really cares. Why do you even bother to waste the time bringing it up? What do you think you've got? Where's your point? 1
Robert F. Smith Posted September 10, 2014 Posted September 10, 2014 Rapture is just one of many things. Out of interest why do you say that the rapture is "non-biblical" since it is in the Bible?(I have discussed this topic with LDS and some believe in the rapture--however they differ on the timing of course)Trouble is that "rapture" doesn't occur in the Bible, at least not in the KJV. Nor does it appear in the Book of Mormon or D&C.Perhaps you would be so good as to explain from where you obtained that odd doctrine,.
mfbukowski Posted September 10, 2014 Posted September 10, 2014 Since you believe that NON LDS Jews (those who do not hold the true priesthood) are responsible for the animal sacrifices (part of the LDS restoration) you must also believe that the Jews will rebuild their temple on the Temple Mount prior to the Second Coming of Christ. Is that a fair assessment of what you believe? Stop the Twenty Questions game. If you do not immediately respond to the questions asked of you this thread will be closed.I really think you need to note that part in red. This chatter is pointless.
mfbukowski Posted September 10, 2014 Posted September 10, 2014 Trouble is that "rapture" doesn't occur in the Bible, at least not in the KJV. Nor does it appear in the Book of Mormon or D&C.Perhaps you would be so good as to explain from where you obtained that odd doctrine,.Read on.It only gets worse!
Canadaigua Posted September 10, 2014 Author Posted September 10, 2014 You really are dense. You have yet to show where the phrase "animal sacrifice" has been used by one of our leaders in an authoritative (doctrinal) setting.Sure I have but you have either not bothered to read it or have simply ignored it.
Canadaigua Posted September 10, 2014 Author Posted September 10, 2014 I don't really care. I have no opinion.Why do you imagine is it important? And why don't you answer my questions?????If you don't care and/or have no opinion why all of the posts?
Canadaigua Posted September 10, 2014 Author Posted September 10, 2014 You really don't know what you are talking about. A testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy- you cannot know that Jesus is the Christ without the spirit of prophecy. Every missionary in the Jerusalem center- every teacher, every person there is a "prophet" in the above sense. It could be any of them. It could be visiting apostles. There has been volumes of speculation about this point- you think you are the first to bring this up??? No one knows, no one really cares. Why do you even bother to waste the time bringing it up? What do you think you've got? Where's your point?You said that the two witnesses in Revelation 11 "could be visiting apostles". Revelation 11 doesn't say that the two witnesses are "visiting apostles" rather it gives specific details about them and says that they will witness for 3 1/2 years. There is no indication that the witnesses have started their ministry and since they have not started then you know that Christ can't come back for at least 3 1/2 years. This means that according to your beliefs Christ can't come back at any time.
Canadaigua Posted September 10, 2014 Author Posted September 10, 2014 (edited) Trouble is that "rapture" doesn't occur in the Bible, at least not in the KJV. Nor does it appear in the Book of Mormon or D&C.Perhaps you would be so good as to explain from where you obtained that odd doctrine,.Not so sure why you consider this "odd doctrine" since Mormonism teaches that believers will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air as well. See the following LDS friendly link. http://en.fairmormon.org/Mormonism_and_doctrine/Rapture_and_LDS_theologyJoseph Smith and modern revelation ". . .Again in D&C section 88 the Lord warns, "prepare the saints for the hour of judgment which is to come; that their souls may escape the wrath of God, the desolation of abomination which awaits the wicked both in this world and in the world to come" (DC 88:84-85). "And the saints that are upon the earth, who are alive, shall be quickened and be caught up to meet him. And they who have slept in their graves shall come forth for their graves shall be opened; and they also shall be caught up to meet him in the midst of the pillar of heaven—They are Christ's, the first fruits [of the resurrection], and they who shall descend with him first, and they who are on the earth and in their graves, who are first caught up to meet him... (D&C 88:96-98).Thus begins the resurrection of the just and the millennial reign of Christ on the earth (see DC 88:99-101; Revelation 20:4-6). Those who are caught up are not taken into heaven but reign "with Christ a thousand years" on the earth.[3] Thereafter, "they shall reign for ever and ever" with him (Revelation 22:4-5)." Edited September 10, 2014 by Canadaigua 2
Vance Posted September 10, 2014 Posted September 10, 2014 Sure I have but you have either not bothered to read it or have simply ignored it.Quoting the opinion of individuals does NOT doctrine make.
Vance Posted September 10, 2014 Posted September 10, 2014 Not so sure why you consider this "odd doctrine" since Mormonism teaches that believers will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air as well. See the following LDS friendly link. http://en.fairmormon.org/Mormonism_and_doctrine/Rapture_and_LDS_theology Joseph Smith and modern revelation ". . .Again in D&C section 88 the Lord warns, "prepare the saints for the hour of judgment which is to come; that their souls may escape the wrath of God, the desolation of abomination which awaits the wicked both in this world and in the world to come" (DC 88:84-85). "And the saints that are upon the earth, who are alive, shall be quickened and be caught up to meet him. And they who have slept in their graves shall come forth for their graves shall be opened; and they also shall be caught up to meet him in the midst of the pillar of heaven—They are Christ's, the first fruits [of the resurrection], and they who shall descend with him first, and they who are on the earth and in their graves, who are first caught up to meet him... (D&C 88:96-98). Thus begins the resurrection of the just and the millennial reign of Christ on the earth (see DC 88:99-101; Revelation 20:4-6). Those who are caught up are not taken into heaven but reign "with Christ a thousand years" on the earth.[3] Thereafter, "they shall reign for ever and ever" with him (Revelation 22:4-5)." Don't see "Rapture" in there anywhere. Do you? And that is the point you missed and are still missing. 1
Vance Posted September 10, 2014 Posted September 10, 2014 Stop the Twenty Questions game. If you do not immediately respond to the questions asked of you this thread will be closed.It would be nice if he would answer questions. But it won't happen because answering the questions asked of him will expose the weakness or baselessness of his positions. He must always move on to the next attack, thus showing that he is NOT here to dialogue. 1
Canadaigua Posted September 10, 2014 Author Posted September 10, 2014 Quoting the opinion of individuals does NOT doctrine make.I have not quoted "individuals" I have given you several statements by your own leaders. Take a look at the quotes from the link below and let's talk about what they said. http://emp.byui.edu/marrottr/AnimalSacrificesFuture.pdf 1
Canadaigua Posted September 10, 2014 Author Posted September 10, 2014 It would be nice if he would answer questions. But it won't happen because answering the questions asked of him will expose the weakness or baselessness of his positions. He must always move on to the next attack, thus showing that he is NOT here to dialogue.This thread is about LDS end times--not what Christians believe about end times. But I would be happy to try and answer your questions. What question specifically would you like for me to answer?
ERayR Posted September 10, 2014 Posted September 10, 2014 This thread is about LDS end times--not what Christians believe about end times. But I would be happy to try and answer your questions. What question specifically would you like for me to answer? What specifically are you trying to accomplish with this thread?
Canadaigua Posted September 10, 2014 Author Posted September 10, 2014 What specifically are you trying to accomplish with this thread?I am trying to determine end time similarities and differences between Evangelical Christianity and Mormonism.
ERayR Posted September 10, 2014 Posted September 10, 2014 I am trying to determine end time similarities and differences between Evangelical Christianity and Mormonism. To what end? i.e. Why?
Vance Posted September 10, 2014 Posted September 10, 2014 I have not quoted "individuals" I have given you several statements by your own leaders. Take a look at the quotes from the link below and let's talk about what they said. http://emp.byui.edu/marrottr/AnimalSacrificesFuture.pdfSorry, but your sources are NOT official doctrine. We can talk about the opinions of leaders but opinions of leaders are NOT official doctrine.
ERayR Posted September 10, 2014 Posted September 10, 2014 Sorry, but your sources are NOT official doctrine. We can talk about the opinions of leaders but opinions of leaders are NOT official doctrine. What!!! They did not teach that in the witnessing to Mormons class.
Vance Posted September 10, 2014 Posted September 10, 2014 What!!! They did not teach that in the witnessing to Mormons class. You are correct.
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