Tanyan Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 Johnny Please answer the questions, no end around, hiding in the Hallway. No asking a non sensical question to my questions, just the facts my good man, just the facts, no Neo/Platonic/Gnostic/Hellenistic/Rhetorical/Dialectic/Diatribes Please. Link to comment
johnny Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 Paul Osborne writes,God cannot be Jesus simply because he is NOT our crucified Jesus. If you see the Father you will have to look to Jesus Link to comment
Paul Osborne Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 God has inhabit the body of Jesus because God sent HIS spirit.Yes I know this is your belief my friend, but I am asking can you harmonize that with the scriptures I gave out? The Spirit is not the Father of Jesus Christ and the Father never did inhabit the body Christ. The Spirit and Father are two Persons. Paul O Link to comment
Tanyan Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 Paul, That Clover is Modalistic/Sabellian in its Nature !. Its substance is not divided, did you notice ?. Link to comment
Paul Osborne Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 John 149 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father? Give it up Johnny.He who has seen Adam has seen Seth!The Father was not in Jesus body and was not crucified.Paul O Link to comment
johnny Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 Paul Osborne writes,There are leaves and a stem and to it are roots. The clover is one body having its own DNA. The clover was born from a seed and has a predecessor. This kills the Trinity doctrine on the spot! God is one eternal being. God is is above all, and through all, and in you all (Eph 4:6). Christ has a body and the Father doesn Link to comment
Paul Osborne Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 Jesus is NOT the God of Heavenly Father but Heavenly Father IS the God of Jesus. That means Jesus has a God. Imagine that, God having God? Or shall I say, a God having a God? I also have a God. There is a God for everyone!I understand the message of the N.T. and reject the Trinity.Goodnight again.Paul O Link to comment
Servant Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 God has inhabit the body of Jesus because God sent HIS spirit.Yes I know this is your belief my friend, but I am asking can you harmonize that with the scriptures I gave out? The Spirit is not the Father of Jesus Christ and the Father never did inhabit the body Christ. The Spirit and Father are two Persons. Paul O If that was the case, then Jesus would be the Son of Spirit. Link to comment
Paul Osborne Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 God is is above all, and through all, and in you all (Eph 4:6). I wish St. Paul had never said that because I am so tired of hearing it.Paul O Link to comment
johnny Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 Tanyan writes, Johnny Please answer the questions, no end around, hiding in the Hallway. No asking a non sensical question to my questions, just the facts my good man, just the facts, no Neo/Platonic/Gnostic/Hellenistic/Rhetorical/Dialectic/Diatribes Please. It is evident that you are not able to answer your own question ... again I ask why do you personaly subscribe to a Monarch/Economic/Eastern/Social Trinity/Godhead? Thanks in advance. Paul, That Clover is Modalistic/Sabellian in its Nature !. Its substance is not divided, did you notice ?. Each individual clover leaf around the stem is distinct ... clearly not Modalistic/Sabellian in its Nature !. The Godhead is not divided since the Father is its source and origin. Link to comment
Paul Osborne Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 Jesus would be the Son of Spirit. Actually, I believe they are brothers!I feel blessed to know that three Men in heaven love me. I will look to the right and see Jesus. I will look to the left and see my Father. I will feel the Spirit burn in my heart. I'm so lucky to have the truth.Goodnight and goodnight. Paul O Link to comment
Servant Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 Since I have asked numberoius of time with different people I will just assume that the view of three seperate gods with seperate minds can NOT be harmonized with the scripture I put out....I rather have heard "I cant find anything to harmonize with the scripture you put out" instead of leaving me in wonder...really that is ok...anyways have a good one.... Link to comment
Tanyan Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 Paul, Correctamundo Brother !. JN 14:28, 20:17 Acts2:32 Rom 15:6 1 Cor 11:3, 15:23-28 2 Cor1:3, 11:31 Eph 1:3 Heb 1:1-9 [8-9] 1 Peter 1:3 Rev 1:6, 3:2,12, see NIV. Link to comment
Servant Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 Jesus would be the Son of Spirit. Actually, I believe they are brothers!I feel blessed to know that three Men in heaven love me. I will look to the right and see Jesus. I will look to the left and see my Father. I will feel the Spirit burn in my heart. I'm so lucky to have the truth.Goodnight and goodnight. Paul O so are you saying the "Son of God" is wrong? Since God sent HIS spirit...and you are saying god sent A spirit (which it doesnt say that) then it should read Son of spirit....not Son of God.I am so glad that I too have the truth.... Link to comment
T-Shirt Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 but you believe He is NOT the same God as the Father, right? No, He is not the same God, but He is of the same Godhead and is one with the Father as explained in John 17. The Father has given all power to the Son (See John 3:35) and the Son only does the will of the Father even though their wills may not always be the same (see Luke 22:42)So tell me how does three gods harmonize with the scriptures I have said?I will explainHow does three seperate gods with their own minds who is worshipped harmonize with the commands? "I am God and there is no other God before me"?Is the King James Version is okay with you?I assume you are referring to the first of the ten commandments. In the KJV it reads:Genesis 20:2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.Jehovah is speaking, who is the premortal Christ. He represents the father in every way and is part of the Godhead with the Father. The command was for Israel to not follow or worship any other gods, but the one God the Father represented by the Son. The interesting thing is that this commandments indicates that there are other gods, and not neccesarily idols, (that is the message of the second commandment) the word translated as gods is Elohim which almost always refers to diety, there is no evidence that He is referring to idols here, else why the need for the second commandment:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:How does it harmonize with this:Psalm 97:9 - the Lord God is above all - John 3:31 - Jesus is above all. Psalms 97:9 reads as follows:9 For thou, LORD, art high above all the earth: thou art exalted far above all gods.John 3:31 reads as follows:31 He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.I have a few comments here. First, Psalms 97 is referring to Jehovah who is the premortal Christ, so it is referring to the same being as in John 3. It is perfectly consistant. Also, Jehovah reresents the Father in all things and therefore Psalms refers to the Father as well. Why is it not possible for two Gods in hte same Godhead, one in purpose, to not both be above all the earth, they both are above all the earth. Once again, Psalms 97 also mentions other gods and the word used again is Elohim. There is no evidence that this verse speaks about idols. I find it interesting that the first two scriptures you quoted have the same concept in them. I wonder if it is just coincidence? You may want to ask yourself is someone is trying to tell you something. How does it harmonize with this:Matt. 9:2; Mark 2:5; Luke 5:20; 7:48 - Jesus forgives sins. Only God can forgive sins. Matthew 9:2 reads:2 And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee.Mark 2:5 reads:5 When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee. (Same story as above)Luke 5:20 reads:20 And when he saw their faith, he said unto him, Man, thy sins are forgiven thee. (Same story again)Luke 7:48 reads:48 And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven. (Different story, same result)I am not sure what your point is. Why do you say only God can forgive sins? Jesus clearly is allowed to forgive sins. The Father has given all authority to the Son.I will tell you why it harmonize with the Trinity...it harmonizes with eachother because the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit is God...How can these verse harmonize with three seperate gods with seperate minds?I don't see why this is hard to understand. I know we come from different backgrounds, but to me, it makes more sense my way.The Athanasian Creed states that there are three seperate persons, which I agree with, it states that each is God, which I agree with. Why is it so impossible for them to be seperate Gods, but one in Godhead, Unity and purpose? Just because the Son has a seperate "mind" as you put it doesn't make them somehow less God. The Son only does the will of the Father, the Father has given everything over to the Son. The Son represents the Father, but He acts indepent of the Father while He accomplishes the will of the Father. Why does this need to be such heresy? It certainly is much easier to understand.T-Shirt Link to comment
johnny Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 Paul Osborne writes,He who has seen Adam has seen Seth!Seth did not say that Adam dwelled in him ... Jesus said the Father dwelt in him and the Father is the one that did the work. The Father was not in Jesus body and was not crucified. Scripture clearly says that God was in Christ and that God was manifest in the flesh.Jesus is NOT the God of Heavenly Father but Heavenly Father IS the God of Jesus. That means Jesus has a God. Imagine that, God having God? Or shall I say, a God having a God? I also have a God. The Father glorified the Son of God. The Father raised up the Son of God. Jesus is the Son of God and God himself (John 1:1).I understand the message of the N.T. and reject the Trinity.The message of the NT is that God was manifest in the flesh. Link to comment
Tanyan Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 I have to leave for 3-4 hours, I can't wait to get back to read the Nature/Substance of this thread !. Grace to all. Link to comment
Alexander Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 Johnny asked the simple question of why I believe what I do. First of all, to me it is the natural conclusion that Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ are different persons based solely on Jesus Link to comment
Servant Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 Paul, Correctamundo Brother !. JN 14:28, 20:17 Acts2:32 Rom 15:6 1 Cor 11:3, 15:23-28 2 Cor1:3, 11:31 Eph 1:3 Heb 1:1-9 [8-9] 1 Peter 1:3 Rev 1:6, 3:2,12, see NIV. Can you tell me how these harmonize with three seperate beings with seperate minds....because all I see it doing is harmonizing with the Trinity..I have put numberious of scripture down...why cant it be harmonized with three seperate beings with different minds?I get the concept....I get the idea that you would see them different beings and all...but it doesnt harmonize with other scripture...it has to harmonize or it will NOT be bibilcal. Link to comment
Alexander Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 If that was the case, then Jesus would be the Son of Spirit. I don't understand your reasoning behind your conclusion that Jesus would be the son of spirit. We believe Heavenly Father has a body like Jesus does. Link to comment
T-Shirt Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 Servant,I responded to your scriptures a few posts back, you may want to check.T-Shirt Link to comment
Servant Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 If that was the case, then Jesus would be the Son of Spirit. I don't understand your reasoning behind your conclusion that Jesus would be the son of spirit. We believe Heavenly Father has a body like Jesus does. I am refering to....how Jesus was concieved... Link to comment
Servant Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 Servant,I responded to your scriptures a few posts back, you may want to check.T-Shirt oh I guess I missed it...hold up I will read up on it...but let me put the kiddos to bed.... Link to comment
Alexander Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 I am refering to....how Jesus was concieved... With Mary or otherwise? Link to comment
T-Shirt Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 God has inhabit the body of Jesus because God sent HIS spirit.Yes I know this is your belief my friend, but I am asking can you harmonize that with the scriptures I gave out? The Spirit is not the Father of Jesus Christ and the Father never did inhabit the body Christ. The Spirit and Father are two Persons. Paul O If that was the case, then Jesus would be the Son of Spirit. Your right, but He wasn't the Son of the Spirit, He was the Son of God.Luke 1:3535 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.Who's power was it that caused Mary to conceive the Christ Child?Incidently, the greek for "the Highest" is "the Supreme God". Why do you think they used the word Supreme? Could it be because there are other Gods under Him that do His will and follow His direction?The Holy Ghost is always present when the power of the Highest is present, that is one of His roles, He is seperate from the Father.T-Shirt Link to comment
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