Servant Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 Can I ask do you believe at that time there were certain groups that worshipped fake gods? they were referred to as pagans....
Paul Osborne Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 Each part of the egg is "fully egg", No, each part of the egg is a component of an egg but is NOT
johnny Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 Servant writes, I like the Apostle creed and the Nicine Creed myself a little better because The Athanasian Creed,I like the ancient Apostle creed because it is a summary of the apostle's faith. It reveals that the Apostles believed that the Father was the creator of heaven and earth. In contrast Mormonism teaches that the Son was the creator.Apostle's CreedI believe in God, the Father almighty, creator of heaven and earth;I like the Nicene Creed because it reveals that the Son is one in being with the Father ... God from God, Light from Light and it reveals the role of the Son in creation "Through him all things were made"Nicene CreedWe believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten not made, one in being with the Father.Through him all things were made.I like the Athanasian (Trinitarian) creed because it reveals the doctrine of the Trinity.Athanasian Creed (Trinitarian Creed)The person of the Father is a distinct person,the person of the Son is another,and that of the Holy Spirit still another.But the Godhead(divinity) of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is one,There are not three eternal beings;there is but one eternal being.The Father is God,the Son is God,the Holy Spirit is God.Yet there are not three gods;there is but one God.I like the teachings of the Catholic Church on the doctrine of the Trinity because they reveal what the many scriptures in the Bible reveal.THE REVELATION OF GOD AS TRINITY 253 The Trinity is One. We do not confess three Gods, but one God in three persons, the "consubstantial Trinity". The divine persons do not share the one divinity among themselves but each of them is God whole and entire: "The Father is that which the Son is, the Son that which the Father is, the Father and the Son that which the Holy Spirit is, i.e. by nature one God." In the words of the Fourth Lateran Council (1215), "Each of the persons is that supreme reality, viz., the divine substance, essence or nature."254 The divine persons are really distinct from one another. "God is one but not solitary." "Father", "Son", "Holy Spirit" are not simply names designating modalities of the divine being, for they are really distinct from one another: "He is not the Father who is the Son, nor is the Son he who is the Father, nor is the Holy Spirit he who is the Father or the Son." They are distinct from one another in their relations of origin: "It is the Father who generates, the Son who is begotten, and the Holy Spirit who proceeds." The divine Unity is Triune.255 The divine persons are relative to one another. Because it does not divide the divine unity, the real distinction of the persons from one another resides solely in the relationships which relate them to one another: "In the relational names of the persons the Father is related to the Son, the Son to the Father, and the Holy Spirit to both. While they are called three persons in view of their relations, we believe in one nature or substance." Indeed "everything (in them) is one where there is no opposition of relationship." "Because of that unity the Father is wholly in the Son and wholly in the Holy Spirit; the Son is wholly in the Father and wholly in the Holy Spirit; the Holy Spirit is wholly in the Father and wholly in the Son."
Servant Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 Psalm 139 proves that God is omnipresent. Psalm 7-10 7 Where can I go from your Spirit? Where can I flee from your presence? 8 If I go up to the heavens, you are there; if I make my bed in the depths, you are there. 9 If I rise on the wings of the dawn, if I settle on the far side of the sea, 10 even there your hand will guide me, your right hand will hold me fast.
Paul Osborne Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 I like the Nicene Creed because it reveals that the Son is one in being with the Father ... God from God, Light from Light and it reveals the role of the Son in creation "Through him all things were made" What came first, Johnny: the chicken or the egg?If you say chicken then you also say that God didn
Herb Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 So you dont think He can be every where at once? Then how can He hear all our prayers all at once?The God of Nicea doesn't hear any prayers;He has no ears to do so. You're problem is you limit power with form, a defined form equating to limited power. That is not a valid relationship nor has it been demonstrated. No where, that I'm familiar with, says that an exalted being is limited in their capacity. To say that, a person limits the ability of Christ. Do you limit Christ's abilities because He has a body?Jhonny:Eph 4:6 says "through all"Ephesians 46 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.ANDBecause he can be "above all" and "in you all" (Eph 4:6).The scriptures show a God capable of movement, which of course you have avoided addressing. He cannot be omnipresent if He moves. He cannot withdraw from the crucified Jesus if He is omnipresent. Christ cannot be omnipresent cause you cannot fit an infinite being in a finite space. He can be "above all and through all", but does the scripture says He is "above all" while He is "through all"? Does it say that He is "through all" at the same exact time? Is God in us all? Certainly and at the same time cause our spirits come from Him. He is in us all as we are in our children.BTW The Sun fits the description of Eph 4:6. It is above all of us, it is through all of us(rays from the sun penetrate the human body) and it is in all of us(the energy we derive from food ultimately came from the sun). Is the Sun God? Is it Omnipresent? Is it an egg?
Servant Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 QUOTE So you dont think He can be every where at once? Then how can He hear all our prayers all at once? The God of Nicea doesn't hear any prayers;He has no ears to do so. You're problem is you limit power with form, a defined form equating to limited power. That is not a valid relationship nor has it been demonstrated. No where, that I'm familiar with, says that an exalted being is limited in their capacity. To say that, a person limits the ability of Christ. Do you limit Christ's abilities because He has a body?Psalm 139 proves that God is omnipresent. Psalm 7-10 7 Where can I go from your Spirit? Where can I flee from your presence? 8 If I go up to the heavens, you are there; if I make my bed in the depths, you are there. 9 If I rise on the wings of the dawn, if I settle on the far side of the sea, 10 even there your hand will guide me, your right hand will hold me fast. Also Jesus said where ever there is 2 or more in prayer there he will be in the middle...well how many church services are there in a week at one time?How many people who prays in groups in one time through out the world?So how does an "exalted man" fit psalms 139?God is DEFENTLY omnipresent. God is defently NOT limited...for then He would NOT be God. If He was limited then others could be above Him....when it says in the Bible God is above all.He is also IN each of us....tell me how He cant be when the bible says so?What you are saying does not hold up....
Servant Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 Hi Servant!Have a great day!Bye.Paul O Thank you Paul. You too, have a wonderful day. I am glad you put your input in....I know we dont agree on our beliefs and views...but know that your input and everyone elses is apprecated...it is good to see different views and it is healthy to discuss ones view even if it differs....you have a wonderful day and peace.....
Herb Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 Psalm 139 also says the morning has wings, shall we believe that too? It is poetry, written as poetry and uses poetic license. It is the same as modern poets telling someone they love that they see them everywhere they go, or the grieving seeing their departed love one in all the places they use to go.Psalm 7-10More poetry, nothing concerning omnipresence. But we do read that God : gets angry; is indignant every day; has a finger; has hands and feet;sits; is a high tower; is sitting(9:19) "Arise, O Jehovah"; stands;sees;hears. But nothing of omnipresence.
johnny Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 Herb writes,BTW The Sun fits the description of Eph 4:6. It is above all of us, it is through all of us(rays from the sun penetrate the human body) and it is in all of us(the energy we derive from food ultimately came from the sun). Is the Sun God? Is it Omnipresent? Is it an egg? Jesus also describe it for us:- the Father is the husbandman that is "above all"- the Son is "through all"- the Holy Ghost is "in you all"John 151 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
Servant Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 Psalm 139 also says the morning has wings, shall we believe that too? It is poetry, written as poetry and uses poetic license. It is the same as modern poets telling someone they love that they see them everywhere they go, or the grieving seeing their departed love one in all the places they use to go.Psalm 7-10More poetry, nothing concerning omnipresence. But we do read that God : gets angry; is indignant every day; has a finger; has hands and feet;sits; is a high tower; is sitting(9:19) "Arise, O Jehovah"; stands;sees;hears. But nothing of omnipresence. Wait a minute......yeah it is poetry and it has truth....wings is a metaphor....however the meaning is not....the meaning is God is everywhere and that is where the truth lays....I also pointed out what Jesus said....Jesus will be in the middle of people who are in prayer....and focus on how many church services there is at one time....
Alexander Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 Here is the problem...."God cannot be omnipresent"The deffinition of omnipresent:Present everywhere simultaneouslySo you dont think He can be every where at once? Then how can He hear all our prayers all at once?Even Jesus said "where ever there is three or more praying He will be present" (something like that)...Do you know how many gather in worship praying? a week? a Day...? billions...The problem is you think God is limited. That he only has so much power if any.God above alll? How can God be above all if He is limited?Do you believe that God made this world out of nothing? If He is limited That means another could be above Him....I totally understand now why the big differences....Ok....maybe we can make a thread on God's power? What happened to you making the point that God has infinite power Servant?If God has all power, why not the power to hear all prayers while only being in one location?If got has all power, why can he not be above all if he is not omnipresent?The point is, I see you limiting God here. I believe he can do whatever he wants despite the fact that he is not omnipresent and you appear to be finding it difficult to believe he can do such things without omnipresence.
Alexander Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 Psalm 139 proves that God is omnipresent. Psalm 7-10 7 Where can I go from your Spirit? Where can I flee from your presence? 8 If I go up to the heavens, you are there; if I make my bed in the depths, you are there. 9 If I rise on the wings of the dawn, if I settle on the far side of the sea, 10 even there your hand will guide me, your right hand will hold me fast.
Tanyan Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 Paul, Correctamundo Brother !. JN 14:28, 20:17 Acts2:32 Rom 15:6 1 Cor 11:3, 15:23-28 2 Cor1:3, 11:31 Eph 1:3 Heb 1:1-9 [8-9] 1 Peter 1:3 Rev 1:6, 3:2,12, see NIV. Can you tell me how these harmonize with three seperate beings with seperate minds....because all I see it doing is harmonizing with the Trinity..I have put numberious of scripture down...why cant it be harmonized with three seperate beings with different minds?I get the concept....I get the idea that you would see them different beings and all...but it doesnt harmonize with other scripture...it has to harmonize or it will NOT be bibilcal. Servant, you are kidding right ?, These scriptures speak of the Authority of the Father as The GOD OF THE LORD OF LIFE, JESUS CHRIST Positionaly and Functionaly. PLain and simple, GOD THE FATHER is JESUS CHRIST GOD. no I am not kidding.....here is why. Your scriptures that you gave out fits your belief, but it doesnt harmonize with the scriptures I put forth. The only way it does if Jesus is God.Take a look at the scriptures you put out and then go take a look at mine. Of course we believe that THE LORD OF LIFE CHRIST JESUS IS "GOD", But it does not take a Rocket scientist to see that the SON is subordinent to the GOD THE FATHER, WHO IS HIS GOD. GOD THE FATHER IS JESUS CHRISTS "GOD".
johnny Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 Alexander writes,Is God not powerful enough to be anywhere he wants despite not being omnipresent? Are you saying that God is not powerful enough that his power is not everywhere?Is God's power everywhere?Is God Almighty? Tanyan writes,Of course we believe that THE LORD OF LIFE CHRIST JESUS IS "GOD", But it does not take a Rocket scientist to see that the SON is subordinent to the GOD THE FATHER, WHO IS HIS GOD. GOD THE FATHER IS JESUS CHRISTS "GOD". How many Lord's are their?Jesus said "The Lord our God is one Lord".
Herb Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 Psalm 139 also says the morning has wings, shall we believe that too? It is poetry, written as poetry and uses poetic license. It is the same as modern poets telling someone they love that they see them everywhere they go, or the grieving seeing their departed love one in all the places they use to go.Psalm 7-10More poetry, nothing concerning omnipresence. But we do read that God : gets angry; is indignant every day; has a finger; has hands and feet;sits; is a high tower; is sitting(9:19) "Arise, O Jehovah"; stands;sees;hears. But nothing of omnipresence. Wait a minute......yeah it is poetry and it has truth....wings is a metaphor....however the meaning is not....the meaning is God is everywhere and that is where the truth lays....I also pointed out what Jesus said....Jesus will be in the middle of people who are in prayer....and focus on how many church services there is at one time.... You assume a literal meaning when it fits your needs and disgard the rest as a metaphor because it is contrary to your opinion. Therefore what you present is your opinion of the scripture based upon your bias.Mt 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. Who is Jesus addressing? Certainly not the general populace, but the disciples present, the apostles. Otherwise explain how the following verses apply to the general assembly:Mt 18:18-19Verily I say unto you, what things soever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and what things soever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.Again I say unto you, that if two of you shall agree on earth as touching anything that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father who is in heaven.Is that meant for the common folk, to have that same type of authority?
Servant Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 Psalm 139 proves that God is omnipresent. Psalm 7-10 7 Where can I go from your Spirit? Where can I flee from your presence? 8 If I go up to the heavens, you are there; if I make my bed in the depths, you are there. 9 If I rise on the wings of the dawn, if I settle on the far side of the sea, 10 even there your hand will guide me, your right hand will hold me fast.
Servant Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 Psalm 139 also says the morning has wings, shall we believe that too? It is poetry, written as poetry and uses poetic license. It is the same as modern poets telling someone they love that they see them everywhere they go, or the grieving seeing their departed love one in all the places they use to go.Psalm 7-10More poetry, nothing concerning omnipresence. But we do read that God : gets angry; is indignant every day; has a finger; has hands and feet;sits; is a high tower; is sitting(9:19) "Arise, O Jehovah"; stands;sees;hears. But nothing of omnipresence. Wait a minute......yeah it is poetry and it has truth....wings is a metaphor....however the meaning is not....the meaning is God is everywhere and that is where the truth lays....I also pointed out what Jesus said....Jesus will be in the middle of people who are in prayer....and focus on how many church services there is at one time.... You assume a literal meaning when it fits your needs and disgard the rest as a metaphor because it is contrary to your opinion. Therefore what you present is your opinion of the scripture based upon your bias.Mt 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. Who is Jesus addressing? Certainly not the general populace, but the disciples present, the apostles. Otherwise explain how the following verses apply to the general assembly:Mt 18:18-19Verily I say unto you, what things soever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and what things soever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.Again I say unto you, that if two of you shall agree on earth as touching anything that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father who is in heaven.Is that meant for the common folk, to have that same type of authority? say what? No it has nothing to do with an opionion...it has to do with what the bible says. Are you saying that psalms isnt scripture? Why do you ignore this scripture which btw is NOT poetry...Matt. 18:20 - Jesus says where two or three are gathered in His name, there He is in the midst of them...see how the psalms harmonizes with Matt 18;20? What you are saying does not.
Alexander Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 Why is it that other mormons has different answers than you? One said that God can NOT be everywhere at once....God can be anywhere He wants...and everywhere at one time....other members are not agreeing with what you are saying they believe that God can NOT be everywhere at one time....because God is "not omnipresent".So which is it...Is God omnipresent or not?(oh and by the way since you and another focused on my psalms can you also focus on this Matt. 18:20 - Jesus says where two or three are gathered in His name, there He is in the midst of them). Find me a Latter-day Saint that says God is omnipresent. Oh, and regard to Matt 18:20. If God is everywhere than why does this even need to be stated in the first place?PS: You forgot to answer my question by the way: Is God not powerful enough to be anywhere he wants despite not being omnipresent? (among others) Instead you fired back saying I'm not agreeing with other Latter-day Saints.
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